What is the best surge protector out there?

[westom]

I'm not westom but I did stay at a Holiday Inn recently so I would say buy the one with protection for 2000+ joules, the higher the better.

A surge that tiny is routinely converted by electronics into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power semiconductors. Apparently lies from a bogus publications such as wirecutter.com were read ... and automatically believed. Every recommendation there is devoid of any relevant numbers - first indication of a scam. We were all taught the need for perspective in school science. And still a majority believe it must be true only because someone ordered us to believe it.

Effective ;protection always - as in always - answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? No plug-in protector (and every one in wirecutter.com) will even attempt to answer that question. Otherwise profits will be harmed.

Better protection is already inside all electronics. Worese, plug-in protectors can even compromise (bypass) that superior protection. Why would anyone spend tens of times more money for tiny joules protectors that can do this during a potentially destructive surge?

"House fire caused by faulty surge protector not on recall list, Kingwood chief says": [quote}
A pre-dawn fire at a home here yesterday was caused by a surge protector/power strip that overheated and caught fire, the township fire company chief reported today.

Chief Jason Narbonne said today that the surge protector wasn't overloaded; none of the electronics attached to it were in use and the protector appeared to be a newer model.

"It wasn't one of the surge protectors that was recalled," the chief said. "It was faulty."[/quote]
Recall list? APC recently admitted that some 15 million plug-in protectors must be removed immediately due to so many hundreds of house fires ... created by tiny joules protectors that must somehow 'block' or 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules. A paltry 2000 joules is what a scam artist would have us believe.

Best protection for guests of would already be installed by responsible Inn Keepers. Did hearsay, advertising, wild speculation, subjective recommendations and other lies forget to mention any of this ... to protect profit margins?

Informed consumers properly earth products from other companies well know by any guy for integrity. Including Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). Each has a dedicated wire for what does all protection - single point earth ground. All come with numbers that define protection even from direct lightning strikes without failure. Since effective protector must remains functional after many surges even many decades later. However, most are educated by hearsay and wild speculation such as wirecutter.com. Scams even claim a tiny 2000 joules protector will magically absorb hundreds of thousands of joules.

 

[westom]

... the best thing you can do is cut power which is what a surge protector is supposed to do.

Put numbers to those myths. How does a millimeters gap in a disconnecting device 'block' what three miles of sky cannot? It clearly cannot.

How does a disconnecting device, that takes tens or milliseconds or seconds, disconnect from a surge that does damage in tens of microseconds? It clearly cannot.

Did he forget to learn a science that wais well proven over 100 years ago ... with numbers? Yes. No numbers is a first indication that one is promoting a scam. Why did he ignore previously posted numbers?

No surge protector cuts power. More numbers. A thousand joles protector must disconnect protector parts as fast as possible. And leaves that surge still connected to appliances. No problem. Electronics will routinely convert that tiny surge into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power semiconductors. A surge too tiny to damage electronic must also be disconnected from protector parts. That gets naive consumers to use wild speculation: "My protector sacrificed itself to save my electronics." Bull. Electronics protect themselves.

Why must protector parts be disconnected? Anyone can read specification numbers in MOV datasheets. Absolute Maximum Parameters means a protector part must never fail catastrophically - to avert a house fire. So a thermal fuse only disconnects tiny joule protector parts. Sometimes that thermal fuse does not disconnect fast enough. Then this happens: https://i.redd.it/e34962ah06q11.jpg

Protectors only disconnect protector parts. Leaving that surge to be made irrelevant by superior protection already inside appliances. Those who demand numbers would know this. Others, only educated by hearsay and wild speculation, will believe anything that advertising says. Scams are that easily promoted. Especially the lie that protectors work by disconnecting. No plug-in protector claims to do that. Read specification numbers.

 

[westom]

... a surge from a lightning strike isn't going to be stopped by anything but can be absorbed by a proper ground. It won't 100% protect all your electronics but it will swing the idds your way.

An IEEE Standard provides numbers. If an effective protector connects low impedance to earth ground, then that 'whole house' solution will only do 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. Then the IEEE says this:

Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ... Protection at 99.5% is the practical choice.

How much protection will a plug-in protector do? Maybe 0.2% and only if a 'whole house' solution is earthed. If that 'whole house' solution does not exist, then plug-in protector will do less - maybe even make surge damage easier.

Each layer of protection is only defined by earth ground. Above is only a 'secondary' protection layer. Informed consumers will also inspect their 'primary' protection layer.

Each protection layer (and therefore a protector) is only as effective as its earth ground. Over 100 years of well proven science did not suddenly change because APC, Tripplite, Belkin, Monster, Panamax, or Furman said so.

 

[bcla]

An IEEE Standard provides numbers. If an effective protector connects low impedance to earth ground, then that 'whole house' solution will only do 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. Then the IEEE says this:

How much protection will a plug-in protector do? Maybe 0.2% and only if a 'whole house' solution is earthed. If that 'whole house' solution does not exist, then plug-in protector will do less - maybe even make surge damage easier.

Each layer of protection is only defined by earth ground. Above is only a 'secondary' protection layer. Informed consumers will also inspect their 'primary' protection layer.

Each protection layer (and therefore a protector) is only as effective as its earth ground. Over 100 years of well proven science did not suddenly change because APC, Tripplite, Belkin, Monster, Panamax, or Furman said so.

OK. You're using technical language that few (well maybe me, sort of) here understands nor cares to understand. Your trying to discuss all this stuff is like myself trying to talk about ASIC design with my parents. Add to that you've been exceptional long-winded to the point where nobody really wants to go through 5,000 words to try and figure out what you're trying to say. In short, you've lost the audience. Maybe I've done that from time to time, but not after six posts just making things more confusing to the layman.

As for me? My house was built in 1949, still runs on fuses, and most of the outlets are ungrounded. Big deal. If something blows due to surges I'll just replace it.

 

[westom]

My house was built in 1949, still runs on fuses, and most of the outlets are ungrounded.

None of that is relevant. Any layman can read the part that says a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Obviously wall receptacle safety ground is not earth ground. Apparently liars have promoted safety ground as necessary for protection. Unlearn that and other lies.

Best protection for all homes (without circuit breakers or fuses; with two prong or three prong receptacles; with knob and tube or 2018 wires) is properly earthed 'whole house' protection. Then it gets this complicated. That properly earthed solution does 99.5% to 99.9% of the protection. Apparently percents are technical language?

Problem is information from liars. So learning well proven reality will be harder. First unlearn those many lies. No plug-in protector does effective protection. As in none. As even demonstrated by numbers from APC and Belkin. At best it might do 0.2% protection. It can even make surge damage easier.

If that plug-in protector is found in your luggage, then a cruise ship may confiscate it. They take fire seriously. Any layman can learn from others: https://imgur.com/hwCWHMW
That burning APC protector was not even on their recall list.

Your first post promoted urban myths. Best protection even from lightning costs tens of times less money - about $1 per protected appliance. With specification numbers that say so. Every facility that cannot have damage (even over 100 years ago) uses this best protection. Money is not wasted on magic box. plug-in protectors with tiny (ie 2000) joules.

Best protection that costs tens of times less money must remain functional for decades even after multiple direct lightning strikes. Nothing from APC or Belkin will or can make that claim. Belkin or APC are only recommended by consumers brainwashed by advertising and subjective (no numbers) reasoning. How many never asked damning questions? Where are hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly absorbed? Whole house solutions routinely answer that question. Why do APC and Belkin avoid these questions? They are marketing to others who are easily scammed; who ignore all numbers.

 

[GreatLakes]

Did Sheldon join the boards?

 

[Disney Ron]

I have a headache.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Did Sheldon join the boards?

 

[Hikergirl]

@westom I can appreciate you trying to educate the rest of us but @bcla is right, you have lost an audience.
You can just say something like "a surge protector isn't going to make a difference in a lightning strike but they will help when X, Y, or Z happen".
My understanding, which I admit is very limited, even with my dh explaining things much in the same way as you, is that a surge protector isn't really there to help in the event of a direct lightning strike to your home. It is used to protect against "spikes" in your line that can come from other sources. Ours have tripped a few times through the years so IMO they were well worth it to have.

 

[sam_gordon]

Best protection that costs tens of times less money must remain functional for decades even after multiple direct lightning strikes.

Why do you keep bringing up lightning strikes? OP didn't say they had a lightning strike. They had a power surge (they're guessing). Can happen for many reasons OTHER than lightning strikes.

OP, if power fluctuations have repeatedly happen to you, I'd look into a UPS (whether stand alone for your device or "whole home"). I think you have two options... one that automatically switches to battery if power issues arise, or one that always draws off the battery (and simultaneously recharges the battery from incoming power). That will probably solve your issue.

 

[Hikergirl]

I get the impression someone is a salesperson for whole house electrical protection systems and gets alot of people who aren't interested and say they'll just get a bunch of surge protectors. Who else would seem so bitter about people "ignoring numbers" and getting scammed by companies like Belkin

 

[MillauFr]

I hope lightening strikes this thread and fries it.

 

[_19disnA]

"Ignore" also works great at times............LOL.

I assume the OP is continuing the discussion started on a prior thread about a PC issue. House lighting strikes are VERY rare, line voltage fluctuations are more likely to happen. Unplug sensitive electronic equipment during electrical storms or if you have a lot of voltage fluctuations from your power company, use a surge protector and/or unplug your PC when not in use.

 

[westom]

@westom My understanding, which I admit is very limited, even with my dh explaining things much in the same way as you, is that a surge protector isn't really there to help in the event of a direct lightning strike to your home.

So what are these spikes? If spikes exist as naysayers believe, then how many clocks, dishwashers, GFCIs, refrigerators, LED & CFL bulbs, furnaces, clock radios, TVs, and smoke detectors (less robust appliances) have been surge damaged this month?

Other surges are created by wind, tree rodents, stray cars, and linemen errors. Plug-in protectors also do not protect from them. Effective protectors are for events that are destructive; that occur maybe once every seven years. Such as lightning. Any protection that does not protect from lightning is a scam.

Spend about $1 per appliance to protect from lightning. Why would anyone spend $25 or $90 for protectors that do not even clam to protect from lightning? Brainwashing.

Scammers know the naive are easily brainwashed. Monster has a long history of identifying scams. Then selling an equivalent product for even higher prices. The naive believe it must be better than a similar $10 protector in Walmart - because Monster is tens of times more expensive. These scams work.

It is called a surge protector. So it must do surge protection? Even the world's best surge protector does not do protection. Effective protectors are connecting devices to what does protection - single point earth ground. Only then is best protection, already inside appliances, not overwhelmed by destructive surges such as lightning.

Many can only reply with snide and emotionally inspired denials. Soundbyte denials. Deniers will not even quote one spec number. Brainwashing is that effective. Once hearsay, wild speculation, and advertising has created a mindset, then the most easily brainwashed cannot learn reality. We saw those same people also insist Saddam had WMDs. And that smoking increases health. Scams are that easily promoted.

Effective protection always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? The scammed will recommend a tiny thousand joule (magic box) protector. Surges that miniscule do not damage appliances. But once brainwashing takes hold, then the naive will argue incessantly ... so as to not admit how easily they can be scammed.

Where is one fact or number that justifies their denials? Hikergirl ,et al has not posted even one. Plug-in protectors do not claim to protect from any potentially destructive surge.

All towns have obvious examples of effective protection. Need an example that obviously exists even in your town? Or do one constantly deny because lies promoted by soundbytes were believed?

Reality is never found in single sentence denials. Even Ben Franklin's experiments (250 years ago) demonstrate why plug-in protectors are ineffective. Anyone need that explained?

Those most easily brainwashed never got beyond the second paragraph. Reality is never found in single sentence recommendations. Reality requires plenty of paragraphs with numbers. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Every plug-in protector must be protected by a 'whole house' solution. Science says so. The brainwashed only post cheapshot denials. Not one denier has yet posted a single specification number. Some are that easily brainwashed - therefor scammed.

 

[westom]

House lighting strikes are VERY rare, line voltage fluctuations are more likely to happen.

Put some numbers to those voltage fluctuations. How much fluctuation can exist without damage? International design standards (before the IBM PC existed) put non-destructive fluctuations at up to 600 volts for 120 volt electronics. Todays appliances are even more robust. For example, one Seasonic power supplies defined protection up to 1800 volts.

Power supplies make voltage fluctuations irrelevant. Voltage can vary so much that an incandescent bulb may dim to 50% intensity or double intensity. Electronics must work just fine - no damage - even with fluctuations that massive. And internal DC voltage must not vary by even 0.2 volts.

A 'whole house; solution is properly earthed so that rare, destructive transients (maybe once every seven years) do not damage anything. Surge protectors must protect (without failure) from destructive surges - ie lighting. It costss about $1 per appliance. This is also why the informed also properly earth a 'whole house' protector.
On 13 Jan 2016 by Sarah Q:

It caught on fire and burned my carpet, but it didn't burn the whole house down since I was sitting right next to it.

 

[Floridaman999]

Bazinga!!!

 

[sam_gordon]

Power supplies make voltage fluctuations irrelevant. Voltage can vary so much that an incandescent bulb may dim to 50% intensity or double intensity. Electronics must work just fine - no damage - even with fluctuations that massive. And internal DC voltage must not vary by even 0.2 volts.

Now I know you're just trolling. I don't know how many voltage fluctuations we've gone through at work that have resulted in equipment "dying" and needing to be replaced. So no, power supplies don't protect against all fluctuations. In fact, you like numbers, if you look at most supplies, they'll give you a range of voltage that they'll function at. Go outside that range, and then things don't work so well any more (and they don't always come back... at least not without repair).

 

[wenrob]

Put numbers to those myths. How does a millimeters gap in a disconnecting device 'block' what three miles of sky cannot? It clearly cannot.

How does a disconnecting device, that takes tens or milliseconds or seconds, disconnect from a surge that does damage in tens of microseconds? It clearly cannot.

Did he forget to learn a science that wais well proven over 100 years ago ... with numbers? Yes. No numbers is a first indication that one is promoting a scam. Why did he ignore previously posted numbers?

No surge protector cuts power. More numbers. A thousand joles protector must disconnect protector parts as fast as possible. And leaves that surge still connected to appliances. No problem. Electronics will routinely convert that tiny surge into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power semiconductors. A surge too tiny to damage electronic must also be disconnected from protector parts. That gets naive consumers to use wild speculation: "My protector sacrificed itself to save my electronics." Bull. Electronics protect themselves.

Why must protector parts be disconnected? Anyone can read specification numbers in MOV datasheets. Absolute Maximum Parameters means a protector part must never fail catastrophically - to avert a house fire. So a thermal fuse only disconnects tiny joule protector parts. Sometimes that thermal fuse does not disconnect fast enough. Then this happens: https://i.redd.it/e34962ah06q11.jpg

Protectors only disconnect protector parts. Leaving that surge to be made irrelevant by superior protection already inside appliances. Those who demand numbers would know this. Others, only educated by hearsay and wild speculation, will believe anything that advertising says. Scams are that easily promoted. Especially the lie that protectors work by disconnecting. No plug-in protector claims to do that. Read specification numbers.

You don’t seriously believe I’m actually reading your essays do you?

I get the impression someone is a salesperson for whole house electrical protection systems and gets alot of people who aren't interested and say they'll just get a bunch of surge protectors. Who else would seem so bitter about people "ignoring numbers" and getting scammed by companies like Belkin

That’s what I’m thinking.

 

[Dan Murphy]

 

[bcla]

@westom I can appreciate you trying to educate the rest of us but @bcla is right, you have lost an audience.
You can just say something like "a surge protector isn't going to make a difference in a lightning strike but they will help when X, Y, or Z happen".
My understanding, which I admit is very limited, even with my dh explaining things much in the same way as you, is that a surge protector isn't really there to help in the event of a direct lightning strike to your home. It is used to protect against "spikes" in your line that can come from other sources. Ours have tripped a few times through the years so IMO they were well worth it to have.

Yeah. A lot of things cause little voltage spikes. Especially when you've got something sucking a ton of power and it shuts off quickly - like an A/C. All this juice is flowing through and all of sudden there's nothing there to suck it in.

It's kind of like a "water hammer" in plumbing. I've been to some homes where once the toilet stops filling, I heard this thump sound in the pipes as the water stops.

As for the topic at hand, I found a pretty good article on this. It does mention "whole-house surge protection" but says it in language that most people can understand. The conclusion of the writer is that plug-in surge protectors are needed for surges that occur as a matter of things within the home, such as big appliances shutting down quickly.

https://www.alsplumbing.com/power-surges-damage-ac-appliances/