What happened???

[Tinkaboo]

I won’t say “back in the good ole days” but once upon a time works too…we would book our room at the Candy Cane, buy our tickets when we got there and just go to the parks. Now there are “boarding groups” and park reservations and it’s like mounting a siege on a foreign country. I was used to a lot of planning to go to WDW simply because of the size of the place but the Land was always just a casual day of being a kid again.

I read this board nightly and am shocked at the number of people who think nothing of incurring the cost of a VIP tour or concierge level at Grand Californian. I think it’s great for those who can afford it but there are a whole bunch of us older folks who probably realize we’ve already experienced our last tripbecause it’s simply beyond our means, financially and technologically.

I think I’d be frazzled by having to keep up with it all on my phone. Not even sure I could. As Samwise said to Frodo as the elves left….”it makes me sad somehow.”
Am I crazy for thinking this? Is this all driven by Covid? I understand they need to make money but it’s getting to where the greed and avarice are all too much.

Well, I do have lots of great memories…anyone else in this boat?

 

[CO2CA]

I can totally get where you are coming from. It probably seems overwhelming reading the boards now, but things are not much different than they were 15+ years ago. You do need to buy tickets and make advanced reservations for park entry, but that is basically all you really need to do. Sure, Rise of the Resistance in Disneyland and Webslingers in California Adventure require boarding groups, but missing those isn't going to take away from the trip in total.

We were fortunate to go twice after Disneyland reopened and had a lot of fun. I am the planner of our group because I like to keep up with the latest events and happenings at the parks. We are able to pack a lot into our days because of my planning, but that isn't necessary to have a good time. At the current moment, no FastPass means that you could go the whole day without even pulling out your phone....really! They still have park maps available at guest services and still give you a hard ticket after your first entry. Most restaurants inside the park are accepting walk-ups rather than requiring mobile order, which is great for those who don't want to mess with technology or plan out their meals.

We used to do things on the cheap when I was younger when we didn't have as much disposable income. As in: stay across the street, pack lunch/dinner or go to McDonald's to buy the value menu items, no souvenirs, no extras. We still had an incredible time. With the right budgeting, I would say that Disneyland is still within reach for most people.

 

[MonocularVision]

How do folks staying at the Grand Californian or booking VIP tours affect your enjoyment of the parks?

 

[lalasmama]

I won’t say “back in the good ole days” but once upon a time works too…we would book our room at the Candy Cane, buy our tickets when we got there and just go to the parks. Now there are “boarding groups” and park reservations and it’s like mounting a siege on a foreign country. I was used to a lot of planning to go to WDW simply because of the size of the place but the Land was always just a casual day of being a kid again.

I read this board nightly and am shocked at the number of people who think nothing of incurring the cost of a VIP tour or concierge level at Grand Californian. I think it’s great for those who can afford it but there are a whole bunch of us older folks who probably realize we’ve already experienced our last tripbecause it’s simply beyond our means, financially and technologically.

I think I’d be frazzled by having to keep up with it all on my phone. Not even sure I could. As Samwise said to Frodo as the elves left….”it makes me sad somehow.”
Am I crazy for thinking this? Is this all driven by Covid? I understand they need to make money but it’s getting to where the greed and avarice are all too much.

Well, I do have lots of great memories…anyone else in this boat?

There have definitely been a lot of changes over the last many years! I think there's a lot of things at play around your thoughts.

You're completely correct that it's gotten expensive; really, really expensive for some people. When I started going to the parks regularly, I spent about $800 from start to finish-- $100 each way for my flights (often even less), $200-ish for a 3-day park hopper, $60/night for the motel, $45 each way for the taxi, and whatever was left over for food. That was less than 10 years ago. Now, flights are typically $100+ each way, the motel is $120-130/night if I do the most basic room. My tickets haven't increased much in price (I now qualify for the salute tickets), but that's about the only thing that hasn't been a huge hit to the pocketbook! It hasn't priced us out yet, but the motel cost alone is making it harder to afford and separating our trips more and more.

You're also completely correct that there's a lot more planning involved now, *however* most of it is just personal preference. Yes, you need to make park reservations. In the old days, there wasn't park reservations, so you just crossed your fingers and planned to make sure you weren't going to show up when they were at capacity and closed the gates. So, at least now with the park reservations, it's less likely that you will be denied entrance because of capacity. In the good old days, you couldn't do a fast pass or a max pass for a long line. It's been 25 years, and I still remember the sunburn I got while waiting in the outdoor queue for Space Mountain; it was 2 hours of standing out there, and no one fussed, because we didn't know any different. I'll happily embrace the technology that keeps me out of 2+ hour long lines! In those good old days, we still planned; some people were smarter than 17yo me, and got into that Space Mountain line first thing in the morning instead of at 3:00 in the afternoon, hahaha! You still get to choose the level of planning that you want to do, including if you want to deal with boarding groups and max pass and phones and all of that kind of tech. You can totally go "old school" and not use technology, or use it very judiciously. It can go either way, really; choreographed military operation, or letting the Disney winds take you where they may. There's something to be said for each way of experiencing the parks. The lovely folks here on the Dis tend toward more planning and less go-with-the-flow, it often seems!

Is it all covid? No. Some of it is-- the hotel/motel prices are higher because there's limited rooms available for various reasons (some very much covid related), the need for park reservations to manage crowds (but this was rumored LONG before covid).

But some of it is time marching on...

 

[whoever]

Nothing happened. Certain people got more disposable income, some got less or stayed the same. I personally own a 1995 Daily Driver. I'd pay for a VIP in a heart beat because when I'm on vacation, IM ON VACATION. I save up years to make great memories. Some people can justify it monthy, I can't. It's just life.

 

[smartlabelprint]

Nothing happened. Certain people got more disposable income, some got less or stayed the same. I personally own a 1995 Daily Driver. I'd pay for a VIP in a heart beat because when I'm on vacation, IM ON VACATION. I save up years to make great memories. Some people can justify it monthy, I can't. It's just life.

You beat me on the car. Our oldest is a 2004.

 

[AndrewC]

I think a lot of it is self imposed but guests. We have Twitter people that are constantly in the parks posting “Such and such ride is 300 minute wait!!!” and that gets passed around the Facebook groups and people here discuss how insane that is.

Loads of people provide feedback to Disney now and Disney is able to digitize and immediately digest that information and almost understanding in real time if guests are unhappy with their experience in the parks. Long wait times make high prices seem like a horrible value (we didn’t even get to do xyz and it was OVER $100 each!) etc.

Ironically wait times probably actually feel longer to guests because they’re on a digital device draining the battery, staring at the time, running the stop watch app to see how long they actually wait, posting/texting people about how horrible the line etc.

Disney aims to maximize earnings but also minimize the feeling of waiting. Happy guests that feel like they’ve had a packed full day are probably more likely to take time to sit down and eat something (thus spending more on a meal) or duck into the shops and purchase merch. A family that feels like they missed a lot, or are stuck in line for three hours won’t be doing stuff like that. They’ll quickly each grab a corn dog and drink because they know they’ll eat that in line for the next ride.

All of the convoluted stuff is to shift the wait period around to be less noticeable. You might have to wait 300 minutes for one of the new attractions, but you’re “waiting” for it while spending $75 on lunch at a restaurant in the park. Your waiting while you shop for a little Disney bag or *just the right ears.*

By requiring reservations to get into the parks Disney can almost have a dynamic blackout calendar. If Saturday is blocked out because no reservations are available, people might book midweek instead, even if 24 hours before they open Saturday up again. Everyone assumes Disney has some magic number of guests and then a day becomes unavailable and only opens up again when guests cancel… but Disney isn’t transparent at all, they COULD be playing with that capacity number as well to “nudge” guests into the days they want thus spreading out crowds or smoothing staffing requirements.

I always find it incredibly odd that Halloween event tickets sell out instantly and then a day or two later magically more tickets are released and the days open again… Maybe to give guests the hope there is always a chance it’ll work out in their favor? Maybe to fill other days and balance before maxing a specific weekend? I suspect a lot of back end tricks are happening to increase attendance numbers while also “hiding” the feeling of waiting or crowds…

 

[whoever]

You beat me on the car. Our oldest is a 2004.

Well, my oldest is a 1952, but it has no AC, so not a daily driver....

 

[whoever]

I think a lot of it is self imposed but guests. We have Twitter people that are constantly in the parks posting “Such and such ride is 300 minute wait!!!” and that gets passed around the Facebook groups and people here discuss how insane that is.

Loads of people provide feedback to Disney now and Disney is able to digitize and immediately digest that information and almost understanding in real time if guests are unhappy with their experience in the parks. Long wait times make high prices seem like a horrible value (we didn’t even get to do xyz and it was OVER $100 each!) etc.

Ironically wait times probably actually feel longer to guests because they’re on a digital device draining the battery, staring at the time, running the stop watch app to see how long they actually wait, posting/texting people about how horrible the line etc.

Disney aims to maximize earnings but also minimize the feeling of waiting. Happy guests that feel like they’ve had a packed full day are probably more likely to take time to sit down and eat something (thus spending more on a meal) or duck into the shops and purchase merch. A family that feels like they missed a lot, or are stuck in line for three hours won’t be doing stuff like that. They’ll quickly each grab a corn dog and drink because they know they’ll eat that in line for the next ride.

All of the convoluted stuff is to shift the wait period around to be less noticeable. You might have to wait 300 minutes for one of the new attractions, but you’re “waiting” for it while spending $75 on lunch at a restaurant in the park. Your waiting while you shop for a little Disney bag or *just the right ears.*

By requiring reservations to get into the parks Disney can almost have a dynamic blackout calendar. If Saturday is blocked out because no reservations are available, people might book midweek instead, even if 24 hours before they open Saturday up again. Everyone assumes Disney has some magic number of guests and then a day becomes unavailable and only opens up again when guests cancel… but Disney isn’t transparent at all, they COULD be playing with that capacity number as well to “nudge” guests into the days they want thus spreading out crowds or smoothing staffing requirements.

I always find it incredibly odd that Halloween event tickets sell out instantly and then a day or two later magically more tickets are released and the days open again… Maybe to give guests the hope there is always a chance it’ll work out in their favor? Maybe to fill other days and balance before maxing a specific weekend? I suspect a lot of back end tricks are happening to increase attendance numbers while also “hiding” the feeling of waiting or crowds…

I've had precious few opportunities to lambast Disney over my stays. MOST are magical, a few are OK, and some are POOR. The POOR ones, they've always corrected for future stays. As a hospitality company they seem to appreciate bad comments (mine carry a fair amount of weight apparently).

 

[evilmommie]

Yes, you will have to use your smart phone to do some navigation in the Parks and possibly for your entry into the Parks. Although, you can print those. Everyday they are adding walk-up to restaurants that are mobile ordering as well. Just ask a friendly CM at the front of the location. Take a break from the craziness of all of the social media opinions. I'm finding a lot of these folks haven't even been back to the park or they have set completely unrealistic expectations. I just did a solo trip yesterday and had a fantastic time. Reserved my day and voila a magical visit.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/h...corching-good-time-one-day-solo-trip.3847779/

 

[Skyegirl1999]

OP, my dad feels similarly to you.

When I was growing up, we'd usually visit Disneyland once a year, for a single day, and it was an event. We'd get up at the crack of dawn, park basically where CA Adventure is now, buy our tickets, and GO. We didn't have much money, so we were definitely the type who had brought our lunch from home and ate it in the "picnic area," but we didn't care. I can still remember the thrill of setting out our "Disney clothes" and fanny packs (!!!) the night before so we'd be ready to be dressed and in the car while it was still dark out.

Over the years, my parents adapted to a lot of changes at Disneyland. When I was an adult, they moved to Orange County, and they got SoCal annual passes, usually visiting on Sunday mornings. Disneyland remained a joyful escape.

At the end of 2017, my mom passed away, and my dad moved out of OC (the AP having lapsed while she was sick). Then in 2019, he decided he'd head back to the parks with a friend. (Unfortunately, I was camping and unable to advise him about anything, ha!) He was bewildered at how vital his smartphone had become and ran out of phone battery by lunchtime. (Yes, he could have bought a fuel rod, but he was rather outraged at a $30 price tag to charge his phone.) He said it was a good enough day overall, but he has no real desire to go back. The talk of boarding groups and reservations and required mobile ordering has just confirmed that for him.

It's no secret that I absolutely love Disneyland and find magic there every single time I go. But I also completely understand and respect his perspective. For him, he doesn't want to adapt anymore; he will keep his happy memories as they are.

All that to say, could you still go to Disneyland and have a wonderful time? Certainly! As noted by others, you don't have to spend a ton or be *that* tied to your phone to have a good time. There are lots of people here who could help you have a wonderful time if you wanted to visit again. But if it feels too overwhelming and not magical to you anymore... that is ok, too.

 

[DL1WDW2]

How do folks staying at the Grand Californian or booking VIP tours affect your enjoyment of the parks?

I don’t think that is what the poster is saying. It might not change today for any of us but it is having an effect … BEFORE COVID Disney was on its way to creating a 2 day price tag out of a one day with early closings and special events. And the way resort bookings are filling up so far in advance does not signal to Disney that they need to discount …
I think it is very different depending on individual circumstances…

I find myself wondering how “we” went from people that did not want to answer the telephone or look at your family vacation photos to “We” that must have a phone in our hands always and sharing photos with a world of strangers that are obsessed with looking .

 

[BriannaRuth]

In general, people who post on this board are probably not your average Disneyland visitors. Most of us probably plan more than others, and many of us probably spend more than others because the time we have at DL is such a big deal to us.

On our last trip, my teen daughter and I went with a group of her friends and a few of their moms. One of them goes a couple times a year even though they're in the Seattle area. My daughter is so used to my uber-planning, timing, and park strategies that going with her friends who just wanted to sleep in, show up at the park around 11, wait in line however long it took for whatever they felt like doing on the spur of the moment, and eat wherever they ended up drove her crazy because she wasn't used to doing things that way. But I think her friends are probably closer to the average park visitors than we are. They had a great time with almost zero planning.

BTW, I've stayed at a very wide range of hotels, from a no-frills trip at the Candy Cane to a week at the Grand with a VIP tour. Loved the VIP, but it was a very special occasion, NOT something that I didn't think twice about! But we've loved every trip!

 

[BayouQueen]

How do folks staying at the Grand Californian or booking VIP tours affect your enjoyment of the parks?

When I read the OP's comments, I just read it to mean it's surprising how many people are willing to pay the big bucks to carve out a good visit to DL, when that didn't used to be necessary in order to carve out a good day.

 

[BayouQueen]

I do understand the OP's frustration.
We have a busy family. Lots of things come up to make us have to change plans.
After several times of trying to coordinate family schedules with park reservations, meal reservations, then having the wrong tier of ticket when I move the trip to a new date...I've just thrown up my hands, tbh. Too much work

 

[MillauFr]

I think the biggest problem is the massive crowds. Anything Disney does to control them is fine by me.

 

[Bigmace]

Eh everyone has their own budget and priorities when visiting the parks. We stay off property at decent motel and pay for lodging and airfare through credit card points. If I don't have enough points we don't go. For meals we usually go cheap for breakfast, split something cheap for lunch, and try to do a sit down dinner. So in reality our only expenses are tickets, food, and transportation to / from the airport. Definitely allows us to go more often.

 

[Tinkaboo]

I thank you all for your thoughts and reflections! I do hope that my BFF (over 55 years now ) and I can make our annual Christmas trip (always the week after thanksgiving) next year. We missed last year of course and in 2019, we decided to go in the spring just to see the difference. I have Menieres and that limits a lot of rides for me but that isn’t what it’s about for us. We have been going since we were teenagers. I love Marvel and am looking forward to seeing that some day.

Anyway, thank you again for your thoughts. Puts things back in perspective a bit!

 

[brentm77]

I won’t say “back in the good ole days” but once upon a time works too…we would book our room at the Candy Cane, buy our tickets when we got there and just go to the parks. Now there are “boarding groups” and park reservations and it’s like mounting a siege on a foreign country. I was used to a lot of planning to go to WDW simply because of the size of the place but the Land was always just a casual day of being a kid again.

I read this board nightly and am shocked at the number of people who think nothing of incurring the cost of a VIP tour or concierge level at Grand Californian. I think it’s great for those who can afford it but there are a whole bunch of us older folks who probably realize we’ve already experienced our last tripbecause it’s simply beyond our means, financially and technologically.

I think I’d be frazzled by having to keep up with it all on my phone. Not even sure I could. As Samwise said to Frodo as the elves left….”it makes me sad somehow.”
Am I crazy for thinking this? Is this all driven by Covid? I understand they need to make money but it’s getting to where the greed and avarice are all too much.

Well, I do have lots of great memories…anyone else in this boat?

As someone who splurges for onsite hotels, and might do VIP one day for fun, I totally get what your saying. Even as someone who is normally a planner when traveling, the experience is becoming more and more of a hassle. I start stressing about getting those darn boarding passes weeks beforehand. The system doesn't need to be so stressful and time sensitive, and the fact that Disney has kept it this long despite the stress it causes on the morning of each visit, makes we think Disney is either out of touch with the guest experience or simply doesn't care due to the continued high revenue streams. Add to that dining reservations that are nearly impossible to get without early mornings and a lot of luck and the broken mobile ordering system, and the whole experience has declined in value and enjoyment. As much as I know others love MaxPass, I am not looking forward to it returning. It is just another reason you have to be on your phone all day (and crossing the parks instead of doing them land-by-land) unless you want to spend time in lines that literally don't move for minutes at a time. I much prefer just jumping in line for whatever feels fun next, and having the line actually move.

Man I sound old. I normally love technology and gadgets, but Disney was better without their integration.

 

[fac429]

Tinkaboo, I'm with you. I've been reading the Magic Key thread and I'm shocked at how many people are saying "these passes are so cheap!" As a (nearly) lifelong SoCal resident I know that Disneyland has never been "cheap." But I feel that the rising prices of passes and tickets has far outpaced Disneyland's competitors. At times I even get a bit angry that people keep forking out what seems to me to be ridiculous amounts of money for passes, because Disney is only doing what they should do as a corporation- make as much money as they can. Unless/until people stop paying these prices they're just going to keep going up.

When they announced the program yesterday my wife and I waxed nostalgic about how 10 years ago we purchased the annual pass for both Disneyland AND Disneyworld for $750. No blackout dates, free parking, all the top level perks. Up to that point we had been Disneyland passholders for a very long time. But the next year they jacked the price up by a third. We haven't been passholders since, and decided that we'd rather spend a week at Disneyworld every five years or so. We weren't sure we'd ever go back to Disneyland.

I still love Disneyland, but I don't think we've been more than twice since those passes expired. We bought the 3 day SoCal pass pre-pandemic and still have a day left on those passes. After we use that day I imagine it will be a long time before we go back. Part of it is the cost, part of it is the crowds, and yes, part of it is the hassle of trying to get boarding groups, dining reservations, etc. Ironically, we LOVE doing all that planning for Disneyworld. But you're right, for a long time Disneyland felt like the "easy" park where you didn't have to worry about any of that. Those days are obviously gone and probably won't be back.

We currently have passes for both Magic Mountain and Knotts. Those passes have no blackout dates, have allowed us to visit their other parks for free, include parking, discounts, and other goodies as well. I'm well aware that the experience at those parks is not the same as Disneyland. But those passes were substantially cheaper than the lowest Magic Key offering, and I can go to those parks on any Saturday or Sunday I want.

I've given up hope that they'll ever bring the price point for a DL AP down to a point that makes sense for my family. Not because we can't afford it- but because I won't pay more than the price of buying annual passes at ALL of the other area theme parks to have the same benefits at one park.

That's enough ranting for one day...