Side by side comparison 2020 Point Charts vs 2019

[zavandor]

When Disney reallocates the points, do they adjust per that resort. It seems like most ncreased and only a few decreased.

Booking a 1BR and a studios costs more than booking a 2BR. This is called "lockoff premium" in the POS. This year they have increased the cost of studios and 1BRh only partially balancing it lowering other units, thanks to an increase to the lockoff premium.
It is important to note that there is no theoretical limit on how much this premium can be increased. They could even have studios and 1BR cost as much as 2BR if they want. (they just have to do it over multiple years, as every year the increase can be max 20%).
What happended this year in practical terms is that the total number of points needed to book a resort according to common patterns has increased at all resorts. At SSR, if all lockoffs are booked as studios and 1BR the number of points needed has increased by more than half a million points.

 

[jlovesee]

When Disney reallocates the points, do they adjust per that resort. It seems like most ncreased and only a few decreased.

I think because the larger rooms are more points so you can add a significant number of points to studios without much effect on the 2 bedrooms. I am not against this change, as I don't stay in studios all that often anymore, plus I remember when everyone lost their minds when Disney re-allocated weekdays/weekends about ten years ago and everything turned out ok then too.

Jennifer

 

[Henwen88]

They could even have studios and 1BR cost as much as 2BR if they want. (they just have to do it over multiple years, as every year the increase can be max 20%).

I'm pretty sure they have a maximum point value for each category (that differs per resort). I don't have them off the top of my head, but saw them floating around one of these threads this week.

That being said, I've been using/transferring points with the idea being that I would sell my SSR points this summer (am anticipating a slight recession, and work circumstances will change next year not allowing as much travel). Since these changes, I will really have to look at keeping SSR (for 2 BR) and selling VGF instead. I love the studios and 1 BR there, but the value is fading. I am also of the opinion that this was phase 1 of a 2 year studio price increase (the 1 BR increase kinda blew my mind lol).

Anxiously awaiting to see what changes come to the availability calendar.

 

[zavandor]

I'm pretty sure they have a maximum point value for each category (that differs per resort). I don't have them off the top of my head, but saw them floating around one of these threads this week.

That being said, I've been using/transferring points with the idea being that I would sell my SSR points this summer (am anticipating a slight recession, and work circumstances will change next year not allowing as much travel). Since these changes, I will really have to look at keeping SSR (for 2 BR) and selling VGF instead. I love the studios and 1 BR there, but the value is fading. I am also of the opinion that this was phase 1 of a 2 year studio price increase (the 1 BR increase kinda blew my mind lol).

Anxiously awaiting to see what changes come to the availability calendar.

Tjkraz has quoted the POS for VGF and the only guarantee is rhat for at least one night per year they have to keep one studios for a maximum of 22 points (and different values for other room sizes). No other guarantee. They night keep the 1st of september as 22 points and the rest if the year as 30+ points. It is a guarantee with no actual value.

 

[Henwen88]

Tjkraz has quoted the POS for VGF and the only guarantee is rhat for at least one night per year they have to keep one studios for a maximum of 22 points (and different values for other room sizes). No other guarantee. They night keep the 1st of september as 22 points and the rest if the year as 30+ points. It is a guarantee with no actual value.

Guess their lawyers are paid well. Sneaky, sneaky. This sure has been an eye-opening month for my DVC ownership.

 

[Frederic Civish]

I'm pretty sure they have a maximum point value for each category (that differs per resort). I don't have them off the top of my head, but saw them floating around one of these threads this week.

Tjkraz has quoted the POS for VGF and the only guarantee is rhat for at least one night per year they have to keep one studios for a maximum of 22 points (and different values for other room sizes). No other guarantee. They night keep the 1st of september as 22 points and the rest if the year as 30+ points. It is a guarantee with no actual value.

Guess their lawyers are paid well. Sneaky, sneaky. This sure has been an eye-opening month for my DVC ownership.

I am not aware that the POS sets a Maximum Point Value for each category of rooms at each resort. In fact, I don't think that is the case. I think they are only required to balance points and if they raise one category by a certain amount, other categories are supposed to drop by a similar point value. However, now it seems that even that is not true. Apparently, they can make Studios cost more and 1-Bedrooms cost more, while making 2-Bedroom Lock-offs (which is a Studio and a 1 Bedroom together) cost less. The trouble is, they KNOW that it will actually get booked as a separate 1 Bedroom and Studio, thus INCREASING POINTS.

So, speaking of good lawyers, would it be possible to create a class action lawsuit against Disney for violating the 'spirit' of the agreement, rather than the 'letter' of the agreement? Since this change seems to benefit them entirely, with no benefit to the members who actually own it and pay for it? Wouldn't it be funny to see them try to justify a Breach of Faith in court? Surely there is some legal jurisdiction, somewhere, where members who live there but own at DVC could win a lawsuit?

 

[zavandor]

I am not aware that the POS sets a Maximum Point Value for each category of rooms at each resort. In fact, I don't think that is the case. I think they are only required to balance points and if they raise one category by a certain amount, other categories are supposed to drop by a similar point value. However, now it seems that even that is not true. Apparently, they can make Studios cost more and 1-Bedrooms cost more, while making 2-Bedroom Lock-offs (which is a Studio and a 1 Bedroom together) cost less. The trouble is, they KNOW that it will actually get booked as a separate 1 Bedroom and Studio, thus INCREASING POINTS.

So, speaking of good lawyers, would it be possible to create a class action lawsuit against Disney for violating the 'spirit' of the agreement, rather than the 'letter' of the agreement? Since this change seems to benefit them entirely, with no benefit to the members who actually own it and pay for it? Wouldn't it be funny to see them try to justify a Breach of Faith in court? Surely there is some legal jurisdiction, somewhere, where members who live there but own at DVC could win a lawsuit?

Tjkraz has found and quoted the relevat text in the contract here:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/2020-point-charts.3725229/page-12#post-60059610

It states that for studios at least one night has to be bookable with 22 points maximum, not other contraint.
Also it says the lockoff premium can be increased at will.

It would be interesting to see the actual text related to the fiduciary responsibility toward members.
Breakage income is capped and that cap has been paid into the budget every year at every resort. Increasing the lockoff premium will cause more money to go into Disney pockets. I cannot see how this is in the interest of the membership. But how binding is the POS?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Tjkraz has quoted the POS for VGF and the only guarantee is rhat for at least one night per year they have to keep one studios for a maximum of 22 points (and different values for other room sizes). No other guarantee. They night keep the 1st of september as 22 points and the rest if the year as 30+ points. It is a guarantee with no actual value.

One thing is that there are no single night seasons. So there's always going to be an entire season that has that minimum. And even though I have issues with what they are doing with this reallocation I don't believe they will only keep a single season at the max and bump everything else up a lot higher than the max allows. Of course never say never.

I am not aware that the POS sets a Maximum Point Value for each category of rooms at each resort. In fact, I don't think that is the case.

It's been in every resort offering I've read and that's been 2 or 3 from start to finish. I've skimmed others because the ones I read were so similar to each other but they afaik they do all have these maximum values for villas.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Has anyone considered that perhaps this reallocation is somehow being driven by Riviera? If they plan to open a lot of 2 person Studios at Riviera, perhaps they want to make them look cheap, compared to standard 4 person Studios, while, at the same time they raise standard Studios across the board, thus letting them price the 2 person Studios closer to what the 4 person Studios have been? Voila! More points and more money since now you can use lots and lots of Broom Closets for Studios while charging nearly what the full Studios used to cost.

There could be some thought they've given to that and I guess we'll get a better idea when we see what the Riviera offerings actually is.

But if that was the reallocation reason then they are not doing it in consideration of the members and that would increase the likelihood of some legal actions to show up.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

When Disney reallocates the points, do they adjust per that resort. It seems like most ncreased and only a few decreased.

Each resort is balanced for their own point totals. The deceiving things on this reallocation is that the decreases mostly came in Dream and Magic seasons which are longer than some others. So more days received reductions to offset that more rooms had increases. And the reductions were larger in those seasons vs smaller increases across the board in studios and 1BR's. And it also depends on the number of villas in each category at the resorts. 2BR's got decreases and if they make up a large percentage of the resort then it also eats up increases to the smaller villas.

 

[zavandor]

Each resort is balanced for their own point totals. The deceiving things on this reallocation is that the decreases mostly came in Dream and Magic seasons which are longer than some others. So more days received reductions to offset that more rooms had increases. And the reductions were larger in those seasons vs smaller increases across the board in studios and 1BR's. And it also depends on the number of villas in each category at the resorts. 2BR's got decreases and if they make up a large percentage of the resort then it also eats up increases to the smaller villas.

The key is this reallocation is the lockoff premium, which has been greatly increased. In some cases even trebled. So looking at the charts as a whole, including studios and 1BR, the impression that the points have increased is not an impression. They have increased.

 

[zavandor]

One thing is that there are no single night seasons. So there's always going to be an entire season that has that minimum. And even though I have issues with what they are doing with this reallocation I don't believe they will only keep a single season at the max and bump everything else up a lot higher than the max allows. Of course never say never.
It's been in every resort offering I've read and that's been 2 or 3 from start to finish. I've skimmed others because the ones I read were so similar to each other but they afaik they do all have these maximum values for villas.

Another timeshare I own has removed all seasons and went to a day by day pricing. They have a calculator that shows how much each day costs. I don't think they are forced to have seasons at all. It might even be better, so they could price marathon week end like if it were premiere, MLK week end as magic and the rest of January as the lowest cost.
Regardless what we think they could do or not, it's important to understand what they are legally forced to do or not. I didn't know they could increase the lockoff premium and I would have thought the chances of them doing it were very slim. And here we are.

 

[citivas]

They really upped the points on the Treehouses.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The key is this reallocation is the lockoff premium, which has been greatly increased. In some cases even trebled. So looking at the charts as a whole, including studios and 1BR, the impression that the points have increased is not an impression. They have increased.

Yes, but I was replying just about how the point calculations were done and that the increases are actually offset by decreases. Not about the nuance of the lock-offs as I believe they were just asking about the calculations. It's 2 different things and the reallocations seem to balance out as they have in previous reallocations. Then there's the reality of how 2Br lock-offs are booked.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Another timeshare I own has removed all seasons and went to a day by day pricing. They have a calculator that shows how much each day costs. I don't think they are forced to have seasons at all. It might even be better, so they could price marathon week end like if it were premiere, MLK week end as magic and the rest of January as the lowest cost.
Regardless what we think they could do or not, it's important to understand what they are legally forced to do or not. I didn't know they could increase the lockoff premium and I would have thought the chances of them doing it were very slim. And here we are.

And there's a lot of other things that the POS allows them to do including to creating a minimum length of stay. I'd be very very surprised if they eliminated seasons. As always, I'd never say never.

 

[Jack_Sparrow_NJ]

It seems that this will generate a greater need/demand for OTU points or small add-on contracts

 

[Dean]

And there's a lot of other things that the POS allows them to do including to creating a minimum length of stay. I'd be very very surprised if they eliminated seasons. As always, I'd never say never.

As would I but I wouldn't be surprised if they reduced the number. Given the relative lack of difference for some (esp between Adventure & Choice) it'd be easy to go to 4 instead if 5.

 

[RRB]

Has anyone done the math to see if the total points per year didn't change? Seems like allot more rooms went up than down

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Has anyone done the math to see if the total points per year didn't change? Seems like allot more rooms went up than down

I did for BRV. When you consider that 2BR lock-offs are looked at as 2BR's for the point reallocation then yes, it balances close enough to be considered ok in that regard.

But, 2BR lock-offs most likely book as studios and 1BR's which is where one of the 2 big issues rests IMO. This reallocation was almost all increases to studios and 1BR's and decreases to 2BRs in Magic season. It produces a lopsided effect when it gets down to actual booking of those 2BR lockoffs as studios and 1BR's.

 

[mjr0483]

I haven't read all the relevant material but from my understanding even though they are "points" those points tie back to an actual unit in which you are purchasing a fractional ownership interest. So if each unit size is sold at a certain value, they can adjust the seasons within that category of room, but shouldn't be adjusting different sizes of accommodations because one rents better than another.

This is certainly the devil in the details that is coming to light with DVC. I have read so many posts that people are frustrated because they can't find availability for studios. If the majority of people buying DVC want studios, then the demand in that category goes up while more expensive rooms go unrented.

How do you fix the problem? I have no freaking clue.
But do we have a mess on our hands?