Riviera points can only be used at Riviera?

[Simba's Mom]

Is this true only if you buy Riviera on the resale market? Can Riviera points that are bought direct from DVC be used anywhere at 7 months, just like any other resort's points? If they made any such usage restrictions on Riviera points, even just on resale points, why did they? Is there some legal reason that they had to, or did they just do it because they could, maybe they thought "we'll try to add this added layer of making it harder to buy resale and see how it works." I know I read somewhere recently that the restrictions on Riviera Points were affecting how not quickly they're selling, and that got me wondering. Lastly, if DVC wanted, could they remove the restrictions? Either just going forward or on all points at Riviera?

 

[Vulnox]

There are many discussions on this that cover your questions if you wanted some reading material. But in essence the limitation is only if you buy Riviera resale, RIV direct points can be used anywhere.

I believe this restriction is in place for points at the new Disneyland DVC tower, and will probably be there for other resorts going forward if they aren't added to an existing association. Like I think the Grand Floridian doesn't have the restrictions but was treated as an add on to the existing association? I admit I don't follow it crazy close.

It was Disney trying to push more direct sales, that's it, and it will likely continue going forward. Once the 2042 resorts come due, I imagine the reissue of those points will have restrictions as well, unless Disney changes course entirely.

 

[intamin]

Is this true only if you buy Riviera on the resale market? Can Riviera points that are bought direct from DVC be used anywhere at 7 months, just like any other resort's points? If they made any such usage restrictions on Riviera points, even just on resale points, why did they? Is there some legal reason that they had to, or did they just do it because they could, maybe they thought "we'll try to add this added layer of making it harder to buy resale and see how it works." I know I read somewhere recently that the restrictions on Riviera Points were affecting how not quickly they're selling, and that got me wondering. Lastly, if DVC wanted, could they remove the restrictions? Either just going forward or on all points at Riviera?

They did not have to implement these restrictions. Disney is trying to decrease future resale sales from affecting their direct sales. Plain and simple. This is the reason why resale members also do not receive any of the perks like dining discounts, annual passes etc. They're trying to decrease the value of the resale product likely so they can ROFR these properties for cheap and then sell them back at a premium unrestricted. They're betting not as many people will want to buy resale if they're drastically limited where they can stay with the contract which frankly is true. RIV resale wouldn't be selling for 120s-130s if it weren't for resale restrictions.

If they wanted to, they can remove the resale restrictions at their discretion. I don't expect them to but they technically can. Disney wants to retain control over their product.

I believe this restriction is in place for points at the new Disneyland DVC tower, and will probably be there for other resorts going forward if they aren't added to an existing association. Like I think the Grand Floridian doesn't have the restrictions but was treated as an add on to the existing association? I admit I don't follow it crazy close.

Yes, the reason why VGF doesn't have the restriction is because the new building was added to the already existing association.

 

[CarolynFH]

Is this true only if you buy Riviera on the resale market?

Yes, RIV points bought resale can be used only at RIV.

Can Riviera points that are bought direct from DVC be used anywhere at 7 months, just like any other resort's points?

Yes, they can.

If they made any such usage restrictions on Riviera points, even just on resale points, why did they? Is there some legal reason that they had to, or did they just do it because they could, maybe they thought "we'll try to add this added layer of making it harder to buy resale and see how it works."

Because they could, and because they want people to buy directly from them, not resale.

I know I read somewhere recently that the restrictions on Riviera Points were affecting how not quickly they're selling, and that got me wondering.

Lots of debate on that, but when RIV was cheaper than VGF, it sold faster, then when VGF was made cheaper, it sold faster. RIV for cash is very popular, so it’s possible DVD is satisfied with sales.

Lastly, if DVC wanted, could they remove the restrictions? Either just going forward or on all points at Riviera?

Yes, they could remove the restrictions on resale points. It would have to be on all resale points, not just some.

As above, the same restrictions are on VDH resale points and are expected to be placed on all new resorts going forward.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I may be misstating this :

Resale points from the OG 14 can only be used there
Resale points for any resort after Riviera and the Tower in Cali can only be used at their home resort

Direct points can be used anywhere,

That is why there is so much speculation surrounding the Poly Tower. If it is the old association, lots of people have access to it, and poly1 members have access at the 11 month window. If it is a new association, resale will be limited to just Poly2 resale points....

And if I have misstated it someone will correct me

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

I’m sure the restrictions impact some purchasers, but your average DVC buyer is less informed. Slower sales at Riviera likely can also be caused by more competition of resorts being actively sold than usual. It’s often two resorts plus Aulani. It’s currently three resorts plus Aulani.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Informed is kinda of subjective.
I buy direct for the same reason I lease new cars every 12 months. I don't want the hassle....

Disney was just about giving VGF away over the summer. My guess is they wanted to close that out so that they could focus on other things and get ready for Poly Tower right next door. Being sold out is a great way to make people hungry.

Honestly, I have looked at a few resale contracts lately because they complement my direct contracts nicely.

Someone on here has claimed the BLT will be sub 120, and RIV will be sub 100 soon.

If that actually happens I will be buying both of those resale if that ever happens and using those points there.

If anything, Resale restriction can be seen as a marketing technique.... People cut their teeth on the cheap buy-in but then quickly realize they want the flexibility of Direct...

In the long run, Disney could be using these restrictions to get the next generation hooked.

 

[intamin]

Informed is kinda of subjective.
I buy direct for the same reason I lease new cars every 12 months. I don't want the hassle....

Buying direct RIV does not make you uninformed. There's a big difference between buying and knowing the limitations of the product and alternatives to buying direct RIV and buying and not knowing about resale restrictions or the resale market.

 

[Ruttangel]

If you buy resale now every contract has restrictions.
Any non-RIV resort can not stay at RIV and as you say if you buy RIV you can just stay at RIV.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I would agree with you,

Buying direct RIV does not make you uninformed. There's a big difference between buying and knowing the limitations of the product and alternatives to buying direct RIV and buying and not knowing about resale restrictions or the resale market.

Anyone who buys a product not knowing what they are getting into is asking for trouble.
Howerever, I was responding to the statement, "but your average DVC buyer is less informed"

To which I say again "Informed is kinda of subjective"

I don't beleive people are making $30,000 purchases knowing nothing about what they are buying.
I google what is dvc and got more than 15 million websites. In today's day and age people aren't just buying DVC on a whim....

I beleive anyone that wants to be informed about buying into DVC came be,
That where my uninformed is subjective came from

 

[CVG]

It's another example of DVD sowing division among members, by which they must feel is a commercially sensible decision.

Thankfully, I found the Riviera to be somewhat sterile and corporate and so I do not feel disadvantaged by that decision.

But the more they penny-pinch and chip away at us - the more I feel the need to call out the outrageous price of their 10% discount card (the difference between Direct and Resale prices - typically around $15K for 150 points). And every time I get asked if I am a DVC member the more I feel inclined just to answer "Yes" and let them lose the extra 10% they'll get from me.

I'd be willing to spend much more with Disney if they found a better balance between customer and shareholder.

 

[Genie+]

Restrictions are a way to increase the value of buying direct and increase direct sales.

Restrictions are a way for DVD to reclaim some of the profits being made in the resale sector. Not only do restrictions differentiate the resale and direct products, that difference is going to build as more and more new DVC resorts come on line and make their way to the resale market. Fast forward a decade when multiple restricted resorts are available resale. While VDH, RIV, CabinsFW and future resorts are sure to be nice, their resale values will be affected by being locked into just one resort. Decrease demand lowers resale value, giving DVD more room to rofr cheap contracts and flip into fully usable for a profit. At this point I think DVD might also try to cut into broker fees and offer some way for folks to upgrade directly through DVC, cutting out that sales commission.

Restrictions do not affect direct buyers’ use of their contract. They get all the bells and whistles- new resorts, old resorts, perks and whatever else is offered through DVC. It only matters in regard to selling.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It's another example of DVD sowing division among members, by which they must feel is a commercially sensible decision.

Thankfully, I found the Riviera to be somewhat sterile and corporate and so I do not feel disadvantaged by that decision.

But the more they penny-pinch and chip away at us - the more I feel the need to call out the outrageous price of their 10% discount card (the difference between Direct and Resale prices - typically around $15K for 150 points). And every time I get asked if I am a DVC member the more I feel inclined just to answer "Yes" and let them lose the extra 10% they'll get from me.

I'd be willing to spend much more with Disney if they found a better balance between customer and shareholder.

Interesting,
My wife said almost the same thing about RIV when I bought it….. She only liked Poly….

Then we staid there, and she loves it.

 

[tidefan]

Restrictions are a way to increase the value of buying direct and increase direct sales.

Restrictions are a way for DVD to reclaim some of the profits being made in the resale sector. Not only do restrictions differentiate the resale and direct products, that difference is going to build as more and more new DVC resorts come on line and make their way to the resale market. Fast forward a decade when multiple restricted resorts are available resale. While VDH, RIV, CabinsFW and future resorts are sure to be nice, their resale values will be affected by being locked into just one resort. Decrease demand lowers resale value, giving DVD more room to rofr cheap contracts and flip into fully usable for a profit. At this point I think DVD might also try to cut into broker fees and offer some way for folks to upgrade directly through DVC, cutting out that sales commission.

And it may very well have the effect that at the point where everything is restricted, the value proposition that DVC once gave you just isn't there anymore and that could very well affect direct sales.

While when we bought our contracts we never thought of selling them, it is always nice to know that you could, and recoup some of that initial purchase. Restrictions would make me think twice before purchasing direct anymore (or resale outside of the O14).

Time will tell...

 

[Robbie Cottam]

And it may very well have the effect that at the point where everything is restricted, the value proposition that DVC once gave you just isn't there anymore and that could very well affect direct sales.

While when we bought our contracts we never thought of selling them, it is always nice to know that you could, and recoup some of that initial purchase. Restrictions would make me think twice before purchasing direct anymore (or resale outside of the O14).

Time will tell...

It would only be restricted to resale,
Direct isn't restricted...

IF the POLY Tower really becomes a separate HOA, then resale points bought today at the O14, would not be accepted.

Most likely, all new resorts would come with the same restriction

 

[tidefan]

It would only be restricted to resale,
Direct isn't restricted...

IF the POLY Tower really becomes a separate HOA, then resale points bought today at the O14, would not be accepted.

Most likely, all new resorts would come with the same restriction

But restricted resale DOES impact your direct points, should you ever need to sell, as they would now be restricted, impacting the value you now have on your direct purchase.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It would only be restricted to resale,
Direct isn't restricted...

IF the POLY Tower really becomes a separate HOA, then resale points bought today at the O14, would not be accepted.

Most likely, all new resorts would come with the same restriction

But restricted resale DOES impact your direct points, should you ever need to sell, as they would now be restricted, impacting the value you now have on your direct purchase.

I have no intention of selling, refi. Maybe if I needed cash

However, my break even on Riv is four years.... I'm three years in now...

After my four years, IF I had to sell anything, I got back would be a bonus...

Restriction do not effect my points, If anything as more resorts are restricted My SSR and BLT points will be worth more

 

[Sandisw]

But restricted resale DOES impact your direct points, should you ever need to sell, as they would now be restricted, impacting the value you now have on your direct purchase.

Maybe it will but many of us didn’t but expecting resale value to be there as the value is in its use.

If I had to give away my RIV after getting 10 to 20 years out of them, I would have still gotten fantastic use of them.

That won’t ever happen thst it goes to $0 so some level of purchase will come back as long as WDW exists.

That is why we are indiffrre t to them being part of the product.

 

[tidefan]

Maybe it will but many of us didn’t but expecting resale value to be there as the value is in its use.

If I had to give away my RIV after getting 10 to 20 years out of them, I would have still gotten fantastic use of them.

That won’t ever happen thst it goes to $0 so some level of purchase will come back as long as WDW exists.

That is why we are indiffrre t to them being part of the product.

But, is this the case for most people? I would wager that the majority of people would want an exit plan. Not great to think about, but if DW and I were hit by a bus tomorrow, it would sure be nice for our DD to get out of it if she didn't want it. It's one of the things that made DVC unique among timeshares (along with rental potential).

DVD is just changing the product that they have sold for the past 30 or so years. Only time will tell if it is the right decision or not, I suspect that many new buyers may not care. Those of us that have been around longer probably care more.

 

[DanCali]

Maybe it will but many of us didn’t but expecting resale value to be there as the value is in its use.

If I had to give away my RIV after getting 10 to 20 years out of them, I would have still gotten fantastic use of them.

That won’t ever happen thst it goes to $0 so some level of purchase will come back as long as WDW exists.

That is why we are indiffrre t to them being part of the product.

With that logic, you'd buy direct even if the prevailing resale value was $100, $70, or $40 per point. And if you keep it until 2070 it probably doesn't matter because it expires worthless anyway.

But the average DVC owner holds on to the ownership about 7 years? And if after 5-7 years (or 10 days) they lose $100/point they will have paid close to around $25 to $30/point/year after adding in the $8.5/point dues, which grow annually. Clearly those owners would have been better off renting over that time. That scenario is a lot less likely to happen to those who bought VGF at $161. That's why, to me, the delta between direct and prevailing/expected resale always matters. You never know when you'll want (or need) to sell...