Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[lockedoutlogic]

The only detail missing for me on deciding in my mind if this will be DVC or not, is still the question of amenities/perceived value issue.

Across the street you have YC/BC/BW with way more to offer than I'm picturing what they are doing here with a tower and amenities. And they have direct access via two methods.

Can they build a YC/BC/BW area in this space to really compete?

Disney has shown no intention to build an area like yacht/beach/Boardwalk again...i.e. Creating a non-gated "guest area".

That is an era of the past.

 

[dlavender]

ah, so the key to this whole plan working out is to get Universal to pay for it!

In some form or another, might be complicated......

 

[OKW Lover]

Wondering if we can split this topics into two (or more) threads? I'd like one about hard news on the CBR expansion, separate from the speculation of what could happen.

 

[dlavender]

Disney has shown no intention to build an area like yacht/beach/Boardwalk again...i.e. Creating a non-gated "guest area".

That is an era of the past.

I'm just thinking from a perceived value perspective.

Kind of like your WL example. If I'm looking at the properties, I'm thinking, "this tower costs the same or more than those?" Maybe I'm in the minority. I just don't know how they overcome that. Maybe they don't have to? Maybe I'm not getting the scale of the project. Perhaps its gonna be huuuuge. (couldn't resist)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

ah, so the key to this whole plan working out is to get Universal to pay for it!

That was a touchdown over the top when the safeties bit on play action

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm just thinking from a perceived value perspective.

Kind of like your WL example. If I'm looking at the properties, I'm thinking, "this tower costs the same or more than those?" Maybe I'm in the minority. I just don't know how they overcome that. Maybe they don't have to? Maybe I'm not getting the scale of the project. Perhaps its gonna be huuuuge. (couldn't resist)

You're not alone...my 50 posts on this thread have all asked the same basic question: "how do you sell it attached to a motel with low quality amenities?"

 

[LaidBackDad]

The only detail missing for me on deciding in my mind if this will be DVC or not, is still the question of amenities/perceived value issue.

Across the street you have YC/BC/BW with way more to offer than I'm picturing what they are doing here with a tower and amenities. And they have direct access via two methods.

Can they build a YC/BC/BW area in this space to really compete?

If I really get my future googles on I see this new CBR tower DVC looking something like a cross between BLT and Jambo House but with a Caribbean theme. A rooftop rum bar / restaurant with fireworks viewing fireworks and perhaps a signature restaurant with outdoor "beach seating". An extra stop on the friendship boats actually connects it to the BW / BC area with Epcot in between. Sort of a F&W / friendship boat pub / restaurant crawl. Connect CBR would compliment the BW area, not compete with it.

 

[dlavender]

You're not alone...my 50 posts on this thread have all asked the same basic question: "how do you sell it attached to a motel with low quality amenities?"

Let say you can pick up the BLT tower and all of its amenities, and plunk it down in this CBR space. Covered walkway to EPCOT.

Will people pay the same as they do for BLT where it is now vs if it were in the CBR space?

BLT has views of the MK, the vaunted monorail. 5 min walk to MK. Connected to the Contemporary.

I just don't see them being able to create enough value to charge the same amount. An entry to EPCOT, IMO, doesn't replace all of the features.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

If I really get my future googles on I see this new CBR tower DVC looking something like a cross between BLT and Jambo House but with a Caribbean theme. A rooftop rum bar / restaurant with fireworks viewing fireworks and perhaps a signature restaurant with outdoor "beach seating". An extra stop on the friendship boats actually connects it to the BW / BC area with Epcot in between. Sort of a F&W / friendship boat pub / restaurant crawl. Connect CBR would compliment the BW area, not compete with it.

You, my friend, are the only Person who has put anywhere the amount of thought into "luxury at Caribbean"...

You got a plan...I'll give you that...I'm
Just not sure it would hold up in earth's gravity.

I'd they want luxury at a great location ...they're are easier/better options at the 3 monorail hotels with an abundance of better quality amenities that are underused.

But the disconnect is that you're still clinging to is that Caribbean is a "great
Location". That is incorrect, but that's based on my experience at Caribbean...which is extensive.

You're a dreamer...I'll give your that

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Let say you can pick up the BLT tower and all of its amenities, and plunk it down in this CBR space. Covered walkway to EPCOT.

Will people pay the same as they do for BLT where it is now vs if it were in the CBR space?

BLT has views of the MK, the vaunted monorail. 5 min walk to MK. Connected to the Contemporary.

I just don't see them being able to create enough value to charge the same amount. An entry to EPCOT, IMO, doesn't replace all of the features.

Great questions...and the answer is "no"

 

[LaidBackDad]

Let say you can pick up the BLT tower and all of its amenities, and plunk it down in this CBR space. Covered walkway to EPCOT.

Will people pay the same as they do for BLT where it is now vs if it were in the CBR space?

BLT has views of the MK, the vaunted monorail. 5 min walk to MK. Connected to the Contemporary.

I just don't see them being able to create enough value to charge the same amount. An entry to EPCOT, IMO, doesn't replace all of the features.

Great question... and the answer is "yes" and probably more.
... the answer is not for the reasons you are thinking. DVC is the answer and realizing Epcot and MK draw a different demographic of WDW guest. MK generally speaking is the family and kiddie crowd (huge generalization I know but you get what I mean, I love MK) Epcot is favored by the "older crowd". That older crowd is a major demographic in DVC. Going by @Lockedoutlogics list of most popular resorts, most of the ones at the top of the list were Epcot resorts. CBR will be a very popular new choice.

 

[dlavender]

Great question... and the answer is "yes" and probably more.
... the answer is not for the reasons you are thinking. DVC is the answer and realizing Epcot and MK draw a different demographic of WDW guest. MK generally speaking is the family and kiddie crowd (huge generalization I know but you get what I mean, I love MK) Epcot is favored by the "older crowd". That older crowd is a major demographic in DVC. Going by @Lockedoutlogics list of most popular resorts, most of the ones at the top of the list were Epcot resorts. CBR will be a very popular new choice.

Perhaps you are right.

But I think you are putting a lot of weight on the access to EPCOT. I agree its part of the equation, but we disagree on the weight of it.

BLT, for example, not only has views of the most popular theme park (2-1 on the others), it also has monorail travel to EPCOT. It also has a walkway to a character meal (one of the most popular), an upscale restaurant, and another themed pool (not the best). If you take away the contemporary amenities, what is left? DVC amenities, and a walk/view to/of MK. Now just those two things perhaps would be enough to sell units, but only because of the walk/view to MK. But all together, its a slam dunk.

Now where does the CBR DVC line up? It's missing the last two thirds of that equation. Are they going to give it what the other ones have by way of location to other resorts? Are they going to give it a character meal? An upscale restaurant? All on top of DVC amenities? Even if they did all of that, its still missing what the other locations such as AKL/BC/BW all have - the hotel side to lean on for additional top level amenities. I don't know if you can get away with sharing these amenities with BC/BW. "yeah, if you want, take a 30 minute ride over to stormalong bay". Will that work? I think that's a tough sell, but if they can swing it, will lead to a pretty healthy profit margin.

 

[jade1]

Great question... and the answer is "yes" and probably more.
... the answer is not for the reasons you are thinking. DVC is the answer and realizing Epcot and MK draw a different demographic of WDW guest. MK generally speaking is the family and kiddie crowd (huge generalization I know but you get what I mean, I love MK) Epcot is favored by the "older crowd". That older crowd is a major demographic in DVC. Going by @Lockedoutlogics list of most popular resorts, most of the ones at the top of the list were Epcot resorts. CBR will be a very popular new choice.

Yep, and if it's over 21, I'm for sure buying.

Plus isn't BLT sold out?

 

[dlavender]

Yep, and if it's over 21, I'm for sure buying.

Plus isn't BLT sold out?

My point isn't that prospective buyers are going to be looking at buying BLT or CBR, its that the entire model doesn't fit into a CBR DVC as I'm looking at it.

A tower and DVC amenities with a walkway to EPCOT is no where near the resort level of BC/BW, AKL , Poly/CR/VGF, and could never be. It would take considerable effort to place it on par with OKW/SSR.

My point, which I guess I've finally arrived at, is that I would be amazed if they are putting all of this effort to try and construct a new DVC on par with SSR/OKW, when those are the least popular and probably least profitable. Why wouldn't they go the route of BC/BW, Poly/CR/VGF? Are they out of space? The only thing that makes sense is that they are going for a lesser model or no DVC at all. They just cant get it to the upper deluxe, at least in my mind. Unless, of course, they feel like they can create the perception of upper deluxe, and the EPCOT crowd really will pay MK resort prices without the extra hotel amenities as a perk. People just don't care about that stuff. Give em a walkway, or boat to EPCOT and the ability to travel 30 minutes to share BC amenities and they'll pay. If I'm Disney I'm hoping that's the case, but it seems a little ambitious.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Great question... and the answer is "yes" and probably more.
... the answer is not for the reasons you are thinking. DVC is the answer and realizing Epcot and MK draw a different demographic of WDW guest. MK generally speaking is the family and kiddie crowd (huge generalization I know but you get what I mean, I love MK) Epcot is favored by the "older crowd". That older crowd is a major demographic in DVC. Going by @Lockedoutlogics list of most popular resorts, most of the ones at the top of the list were Epcot resorts. CBR will be a very popular new choice.

Whew...I just think think there's a disconnect in what Caribbean is and what the dvc owner expectation is...

Even with a rooftop lounge and walking path

 

[jade1]

My point isn't that prospective buyers are going to be looking at buying BLT or CBR, its that the entire model doesn't fit into a CBR DVC as I'm looking at it.

A tower and DVC amenities with a walkway to EPCOT is no where near the resort level of BC/BW, AKL , Poly/CR/VGF, and could never be. It would take considerable effort to place it on par with OKW/SSR.

My point, which I guess I've finally arrived at, is that I would be amazed if they are putting all of this effort to try and construct a new DVC on par with SSR/OKW, when those are the least popular and probably least profitable. Why wouldn't they go the route of BC/BW, Poly/CR/VGF? Are they out of space? The only thing that makes sense is that they are going for a lesser model or no DVC at all. They just cant get it to the upper deluxe, at least in my mind. Unless, of course, they feel like they can create the perception of upper deluxe, and the EPCOT crowd really will pay MK resort prices without the extra hotel amenities as a perk. People just don't care about that stuff. Give em a walkway, or boat to EPCOT and the ability to travel 30 minutes to share BC amenities and they'll pay. If I'm Disney I'm hoping that's the case, but it seems a little ambitious.

Well everybody is different of course, but if they plop down BLT and amenities including a walkway to Germany and it's 21 and over, I'm adding on. That's all. Plenty of dining and drinks in EPCOT.

Esp during food and wine.

 

[LaidBackDad]

My point isn't that prospective buyers are going to be looking at buying BLT or CBR, its that the entire model doesn't fit into a CBR DVC as I'm looking at it.

A tower and DVC amenities with a walkway to EPCOT is no where near the resort level of BC/BW, AKL , Poly/CR/VGF, and could never be. It would take considerable effort to place it on par with OKW/SSR.

My point, which I guess I've finally arrived at, is that I would be amazed if they are putting all of this effort to try and construct a new DVC on par with SSR/OKW, when those are the least popular and probably least profitable. Why wouldn't they go the route of BC/BW, Poly/CR/VGF? Are they out of space? The only thing that makes sense is that they are going for a lesser model or no DVC at all. They just cant get it to the upper deluxe, at least in my mind. Unless, of course, they feel like they can create the perception of upper deluxe, and the EPCOT crowd really will pay MK resort prices without the extra hotel amenities as a perk. People just don't care about that stuff. Give em a walkway, or boat to EPCOT and the ability to travel 30 minutes to share BC amenities and they'll pay. If I'm Disney I'm hoping that's the case, but it seems a little ambitious.

Monorail resorts are great and have their advantages. Epcot resorts are different and have their own advantages. CBR DVC connecting to friendship boates or other means has access to 2 parks, not just MK. If you say the monorail connects to Epcot, I would say the monorail runs both ways and CBR would be connected to MK as well. CBR will basically have all the amenities that BW and BC/YC have. I'm sorry, the current pool area at CBR is better than the BW pool area. OPR may be a lousy QS restaurant but it's better than the non-existent one at BW and even better than the other quick service options on the BW. OPR is better than the the gift shop / QS option in BC. Others will disagree but the theming / grounds at CBR is equal to or better than SSR, OKW, and even CR or BLT. No CBR is never going to stand up to the GF but neither does Poly, and CBR isn't meant to. I have to believe the CBR will have all the amenities it will need to attract the DVC crowd it is targeting.

 

[dlavender]

Monorail resorts are great and have their advantages. Epcot resorts are different and have their own advantages. CBR DVC connecting to friendship boates or other means has access to 2 parks, not just MK. If you say the monorail connects to Epcot, I would say the monorail runs both ways and CBR would be connected to MK as well. CBR will basically have all the amenities that BW and BC/YC have. I'm sorry, the current pool area at CBR is better than the BW pool area. OPR may be a lousy QS restaurant but it's better than the non-existent one at BW and even better than the other quick service options on the BW. OPR is better than the the gift shop / QS option in BC. Others will disagree but the theming / grounds at CBR is equal to or better than SSR, OKW, and even CR or BLT. No CBR is never going to stand up to the GF but neither does Poly, and CBR isn't meant to. I have to believe the CBR will have all the amenities it will need to attract the DVC crowd it is targeting.

This is our main disagreement. For the record, cbr is my favorite moderate. The pool is the best. I agree with you that it's nicer than BW's. No where close to BC's. But that's where it ends. I would not pay $300/night to stay at CBR. Not even if they airlifted me from my room to EPCOT on demand.

You feel that with a walkway to EPCOT the resort is now worth $300/night. We will always disagree there.

I gotta ask, if they could have charged $300/night for the last 20 years and just needed a walkway to do it, why haven't they? Did they just discover google maps?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

This is our main disagreement. For the record, cbr is my favorite moderate. The pool is the best. I agree with you that it's nicer than BW's. No where close to BC's. But that's where it ends. I would not pay $300/night to stay at CBR. Not even if they airlifted me from my room to EPCOT on demand.

You feel that with a walkway to EPCOT the resort is now worth $300/night. We will always disagree there.

I gotta ask, if they could have charged $300/night for the last 20 years and just needed a walkway to do it, why haven't they? Did they just discover google maps?

This...

I also have to point out that there is no way in HELL they are putting a gate in to serve Caribbean.

They have been doing everything possible for 25 year to reduce employees where they can...it's all about longterm commitments.

Epcot - likely in 2 years - will be the least attended park. And the overhead is already huge.

That is NOT because it lacks a boat to Barbados. And a couple hundred dvc units isn't going to change anything.

It's fun to guess...but you have to keep it grounded.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Well everybody is different of course, but if they plop down BLT and amenities including a walkway to Germany and it's 21 and over, I'm adding on. That's all. Plenty of dining and drinks in EPCOT.

Esp during food and wine.

What about the other 10 months a year? And who says food and wine will be so attractive forever? It never changes...just the prices.