new DVC rules Riviera

[vacationer1954]

In other words, DVD has already instructed its personnel on the spin to give about restricting resale purchasers by asserting that somehow this is being done because the mass of members want it. Incredible.

That's not what crvetter indicated that the sales guide said. He said that the sales guide say that "direct purchasers" were getting upset, not the "mass of members". And I can understanding why "direct purchasers" would be disappointed to learn that they could have gotten a just-as-good or almost-as-good ownership interest on the resale market for less money. Disney wrote the rules to ensure they'd always had an advantage in selling ownership interest over resellers. They clearly are finding the competition from resellers to be a drag on how much they could charge, so they are fixing that.

We've known from the beginning (the very beginning) that everything other than using our points at our home resort (including banking, borrowing, exchanging, etc.) were benefits that Disney could take away whenever they wanted.

 

[littlestar]

In other words, DVD has already instructed its personnel on the spin to give about restricting resale purchasers by asserting that somehow this is being done because the mass of members want it. Incredible.

In other words (they won’t say it) the new DVC resorts are not a club anymore - they will become an old fashioned weeks style timeshare when they are sold. With not much flexibility. Buyer beware. I would not buy into a one-sided deal like this when I could own an original club DVC resort instead. Or I would rather chase a cash deal/code on a Disney resort room where cash is king - easy peasy to cancel.

 

[vacationer1954]

In other words (they won’t say it) the new DVC resorts are not a club anymore

I believe the "club" aspect of DVC was always the fact that it was a leasehold, not "an old fashioned weeks (fee simple) timeshare".

 

[Yojenitan]

This is honestly all speculation. With information now coming out about Riviera, we'll know soon enough. It will have to be in the new contracts, out this spring, for member purchase.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

In other words, DVD has already instructed its personnel on the spin to give about restricting resale purchasers by asserting that somehow this is being done because the mass of members want it. Incredible.

And it's contra intuitive if one thinks about it and doesn't accept what a timeshare salesperson says. Restrict the resale buyers to one spot and they will have to book it to ensure a room. If DVC is somehow setting up rules that gives priority booking to direct owners and resale buyers do end up shut out of their resort then resale at Riviera actually will tank - people will learn they can't use their purchase and not buy. Then those direct Riviera buyers who want/need to sell can start complaining. And what was a good but expensive timeshare has just become the normal one.

 

[Ben E N]

This is honestly all speculation. With information now coming out about Riviera, we'll know soon enough. It will have to be in the new contracts, out this spring, for member purchase.

It has been confirmed as being correct when people call their guides. My guide confirmed it for me when I spoke to him last Tuesday. He also told me it would start going on sale around March time.

 

[Yojenitan]

I just gave my guide a call and he said that he hasn't heard anything about resale of the new resorts being limited, only that resale of the original 14 will be.

 

[crvetter]

I just gave my guide a call and he said that he hasn't heard anything about resale of the new resorts being limited, only that resale of the original 14 will be.

DVCMC (not the sales) management did in fact tell me all new resort resales would be limited. So I would tend to think they will but nothing is official. Also my sales guide and his leader both told me they would be limited.

 

[Madame]

And I can understanding why "direct purchasers" would be disappointed to learn that they could have gotten a just-as-good or almost-as-good ownership interest on the resale market for less money.

And are they also upset that direct owners paid MUCH less years ago for the same sold out resorts for more years on the contract?!? I paid more at 132$ pp for BCV with 24 years left than many direct buyers did for more years! The argument is ridiculous.

ETA I find it very interesting that the assumption is that ALL resalers bought SSR on the cheap and are flooding "desirable" resorts. I'd like to see the resale vs retail numbers for BCV, BWV etc...

 

[crvetter]

And are they also upset that direct owners paid MUCH less years ago for the same sold out resorts for more years on the contract?!? I paid more at 132$ pp for BCV with 24 years left than many direct buyers did for more years! The argument is ridiculous.

ETA I find it very interesting that the assumption is that ALL resalers bought SSR on the cheap and are flooding "desirable" resorts. I'd like to see the resale vs retail numbers for BCV, BWV etc...

I don't like what Disney is doing. But with your BCV points do you really intend to use at other resorts? Even if you do you are freeing up BCV that members would love to stay at. I think Disney has realized they have some resorts more popular than others and want to have some control over that. I think there are other ways that are better but Disney is trying something. Yes this makes me not want to buy Riviera unless it proves itself to be as popular and value holding as BCV. If it does resale will hold because people will buy there to stay there. But if it fails they prevented people from coming in cheap with no intention of staying there then being upset when at 7 months they really can't book anywhere else.

I agree with them wanting to prevent issues they have with people (not all but some) buying Vero, Hilton, SSR (and to a lesser extent OKW and AKV) just because they are the cheapest with the intention of only staying at other resorts specifically at WDW (MK and Epcot). That stresses the WDW resorts. However, I will say I 100% disagree with how they are doing it to prevent this from happening. I think the route they chose was partly done because it gives them an opportunity to double dip on sales and if a resort isn't performing well just let them all go to resale and not stress the resorts that are doing well. Also ROFR isn't that high on desirable resorts because Disney doesn't want to compete nor can compete with that (owners buying to only stay their). So I think resorts with higher ROFR are likely the "less" desirable resorts.

 

[Madame]

I don't like what Disney is doing. But with your BCV points do you really intend to use at other resorts? Even if you do you are freeing up BCV that members would love to stay at. I think Disney has realized they have some resorts more popular than others and want to have some control over that. I think there are other ways that are better but Disney is trying something. Yes this makes me not want to buy Riviera unless it proves itself to be as popular and value holding as BCV. If it does resale will hold because people will buy there to stay there. But if it fails they prevented people from coming in cheap with no intention of staying there then being upset when at 7 months they really can't book anywhere else.

I agree with them wanting to prevent issues they have with people (not all but some) buying Vero, Hilton, SSR (and to a lesser extent OKW and AKV) just because they are the cheapest with the intention of only staying at other resorts specifically at WDW (MK and Epcot). That stresses the WDW resorts. However, I will say I 100% disagree with how they are doing it to prevent this from happening. I think the route they chose was partly done because it gives them an opportunity to double dip on sales and if a resort isn't performing well just let them all go to resale and not stress the resorts that are doing well. Also ROFR isn't that high on desirable resorts because Disney doesn't want to compete nor can compete with that (owners buying to only stay their). So I think resorts with higher ROFR are likely the "less" desirable resorts.

No I don’t, but I’m tired of the “resale trash” condescension (mainly encountered on FB).

 

[crvetter]

No I don’t, but I’m tired of the “resale trash” condescension (mainly encountered on FB).

I'm definitely not saying resale is trash by any means. I like resale because it gives my direct points an out and allowed me to buy a resort I wanted that Disney rarely exercises ROFR on. So I'm upset Disney is trying to kill the resale market to prevent a problem that could be prevented other ways. Like enhancing transportation to the more remote resorts, etc. Or build amazing pools at them. Make them true get aways.

 

[Ben E N]

I'm definitely not saying resale is trash by any means. I like resale because it gives my direct points an out and allowed me to buy a resort I wanted that Disney rarely exercises ROFR on. So I'm upset Disney is trying to kill the resale market to prevent a problem that could be prevented other ways. Like enhancing transportation to the more remote resorts, etc. Or build amazing pools at them. Make them true get aways.

That's a good point. BLT, BCV, etc have location going for them, but the other resorts have space to work with going for them. It would be really hard to go back and fix them now, though, because that would have to be done using member's dues. With all the "luxurious" talk I am reading and hearing about Riviera, it seems that they could potentially be on to something. Then again, that could just mean cheap light fixtures that are meant to look fancy and not actually nice, useful amenities.

In terms of the bullying and condescension that can be found in places - people are doing it out of insecurity. They missed the boat on getting the exact same thing for cheaper, and are trying to justify why they paid so much more money for the same thing. I am kind of tempted to buy a red "R" pin for my next DVC trip and wear it around with pride (especially at a members event), because I know that I saved over $10,000 and am getting the exact same thing as those who paid full price.

 

[crvetter]

That's a good point. BLT, BCV, etc have location going for them, but the other resorts have space to work with going for them. It would be really hard to go back and fix them now, though, because that would have to be done using member's dues. With all the "luxurious" talk I am reading and hearing about Riviera, it seems that they could potentially be on to something. Then again, that could just mean cheap light fixtures that are meant to look fancy and not actually nice, useful amenities.

In terms of the bullying and condescension that can be found in places - people are doing it out of insecurity. They missed the boat on getting the exact same thing for cheaper, and are trying to justify why they paid so much more money for the same thing. I am kind of tempted to buy a red "R" pin for my next DVC trip and wear it around with pride (especially at a members event), because I know that I saved over $10,000 and am getting the exact same thing as those who paid full price.

I'm not saying they can fix the issues now. It was when they built them they knew there was issues likely. They chose not to. As for buying direct vs resale everyone should be informed. I mean I looked for a couple years before buying and knowing I could buy resale. I chose to buy a direct contract because it made most sense to me at the time and I bought enough for a resort I wanted and would use at that resort. However, not to say I don't plan to bounce around when I can but I feel a majority of my trips (70%+) will be there. Then I bought resale for BCV simply because I wanted that right next to Epcot and 15-20 min walk to DHS experience.

I think it is a shame buyers (resale and direct) don't have a single source for information. Resale has limited help from Disney on getting POS and etc. (Resale brokers should 100% be getting this off the Orange County Comptroller for them at least) and Disney shouldn't talk down resale too much since it makes their product unique.

 

[crvetter]

That's a good point. BLT, BCV, etc have location going for them, but the other resorts have space to work with going for them. It would be really hard to go back and fix them now, though, because that would have to be done using member's dues. With all the "luxurious" talk I am reading and hearing about Riviera, it seems that they could potentially be on to something. Then again, that could just mean cheap light fixtures that are meant to look fancy and not actually nice, useful amenities.

In terms of the bullying and condescension that can be found in places - people are doing it out of insecurity. They missed the boat on getting the exact same thing for cheaper, and are trying to justify why they paid so much more money for the same thing. I am kind of tempted to buy a red "R" pin for my next DVC trip and wear it around with pride (especially at a members event), because I know that I saved over $10,000 and am getting the exact same thing as those who paid full price.

Also in terms of luxurious I imagine it will get old and run down looking in 4-5 year like any room until it is due for a refresh. For me the pool needs to be killer, the restaurants need to be killer, the Skyliner needs to work flawlessly 90% of the time (also running post park close to get over to the Boardwalk area for some food there). If they shut the Skyliner access down to Epcot IG as soon as the park closes there then I think they hinder the resort a lot. This is all to consider it luxurious. Not sure I'd buy though until it proved itself and I knew what resale would be.

 

[DougEMG]

If members are annoyed that they can't get into their resort (I'm assuming after 7 months) because others are trading in, DVC could have easily changed the booking advantage to something like 11/3 or 11/4 rather than the current 11/7.

If one looks at the rooms that are hard to get, like AKV value, BWV standard, BLT standard, those are all disappearing before the 7 month window opens, so they are all being booked up by owners of the resort.

Right now all members have the same trading rights, meaning all rooms are open at 7 months. As more people become resale owners over time, aren't their rooms going to be removed from the trading pool as they aren't allowed to trade. By shrinking the pool of available rooms to trade into, that effects everyone.

Now if Disney doesn't manage that pool and treats it the same as now, then resale owners are all going to have to make sure they book before 7 months to ensure they get something, which has the same effect of reducing to pool of rooms that can be traded into.

I just see this change as reducing trading for everyone.

 

[Ben E N]

If members are annoyed that they can't get into their resort (I'm assuming after 7 months) because others are trading in, DVC could have easily changed the booking advantage to something like 11/3 or 11/4 rather than the current 11/7.

If one looks at the rooms that are hard to get, like AKV value, BWV standard, BLT standard, those are all disappearing before the 7 month window opens, so they are all being booked up by owners of the resort.

Right now all members have the same trading rights, meaning all rooms are open at 7 months. As more people become resale owners over time, aren't their rooms coming to be removed from the trading pool as they aren't allowed to trade. By shrinking the pool of available rooms to trade into, that effects everyone.

Now if Disney doesn't manage that pool and treats it the same as now, then resale owners are all going to have to make sure they book before 7 months to ensure they get something, which has the same effect of reducing to pool of rooms that can be traded into.

I just see this change as reducing trading for everyone.

Right. That's why I bought where I would be fine staying every time (at least before the 2020.point chart jacked up studio rates so much.) The problem for others is, the more I stay there, the less rooms there are available for others.
It's like what is happening with GCV. I will be lucky if I ever get a room there because most people who bought there did so to stay there most of the time, leading to a lack of rooms for others to trade into.

 

[Madame]

I'm definitely not saying resale is trash by any means. I like resale because it gives my direct points an out and allowed me to buy a resort I wanted that Disney rarely exercises ROFR on. So I'm upset Disney is trying to kill the resale market to prevent a problem that could be prevented other ways. Like enhancing transportation to the more remote resorts, etc. Or build amazing pools at them. Make them true get aways.

I never believed you did. DVC/DVD is now actively promoting this divide and conflict between members. Going so far as to use it in sales pitches. That’s fine, but this vindictive, defensiveness on the part of newer retail owners with 100 points total is aggravating on the one hand and laughable on the other.

I remember the FB reaction during the 2016 restrictions. Wow. Not a good look for retail owners. When I pointed out on several pages that some resalers have spent tens of thousands on their resale points & now “real members” could buy in for a measly 50 points it was not well received. Tired of people believing the spin.

 

[Dean]

I believe the "club" aspect of DVC was always the fact that it was a leasehold, not "an old fashioned weeks (fee simple) timeshare".

I think it's even simpler than that. It's 2 issues, the points orientation and marketing, mostly the latter.

 

[vacationer1954]

And are they also upset that direct owners paid MUCH less years ago for the same sold out resorts for more years on the contract?!?

I have not heard any indication that that is affecting DVC's ability to sell contracts. Did you hear anyone at DVC saying that that's affecting their sales?

I wouldn't expect so, since generally people understand that when they're buying a real estate interest that they are buying something that may have cost a different amount some time in the distant past. The issue that DVC seems to be facing now stems from a difference between purchasing two different ways in the same time frame. People generally respond very poorly to the idea that they could have paid a lot less for essentially the same thing just by purchasing it differently.

The argument is ridiculous.

Not at all. DVC has to deal with real people making real purchases in real time. This isn't a matter of some vague abstraction.

No I don’t, but I’m tired of the “resale trash” condescension (mainly encountered on FB).

That explains the frustration I see in your responses. However, that's not really part of what's happening here. DVC doesn't look down on resale purchasers personally - they're just looking to change things so their business benefits.