My opinion on the 'peace' protesters

[Olaf]

Shortburn, you are living in lala land. The overwhelming majority of military folks would classify themselves as "conservative," not necessarily Republican, but conservative in their values. Gore and his cronies didn't try and get the military vote thrown out for nothing. They aren't "trapped" nor are they merely doing the President's biding. They believe in what they're doing.

There are going to be some people eating some serious crow all around the world in the next week, and it's going to be delicious to watch.

 

[Saphire]

Hi Becka,
I absolutely agree with you that many protesters are out there just for the sake of protesting. Many 20 (or so) year olds feel a rebellion toward society, and I was the same way. My favorite bumper sticker was 'Question Authority'. It feels good to go against the majority. It gives you a purpose to protest government policies. But then I grew up, and completely changed my views. So I do extend some grace towards the college students currently protesting, because it is through that journey they will find out who they really are.

 

[auntie]

Shortbun...maybe you'd like to tell the mom who will bury her son and his widow, with 2 small children that her husband who gave his life yesterday, was uneducated and trapped. He was the helicopter pilot who perished. His mom was on NBC via phone today and told this country how he inlisted in the military..because it was something he believed in..and then when his time was up he went through 4 years of college, rejoined the Marines..and then was trained to fly...which he lovedand has been doing for 12 years. He told them before he left that if anything were to happen to him, they were to remember he was doing something he loved for a cause he felt was right, and a country he loved. Sounds like a pretty smart guy to me.

You need to realize, it's not Viet Nam..no one here has been drafted...they know what they can possible be getting into when they sign up. Most of them have parents who lived through the viet nam era. They have brains. Maybe in your day...no one was on the band wagon for a day of recreation....well flash foward ...
most of these kids have not a clue...I have teenager in high school, and trust me these kids that protested just wanted out, and nothing more. Got one in college too, and he is going into NYPD. He is educated, and has opportunities...this is his choice to serve the public. There are some that find being of service is rewarding and challenging. They take pride in doing something they enjoy and helping others.


Protest if you must...but don't put the rest of us at risk by doing so. I think some pretty smart guys out there have died ...just so you can have the right to do so.

 

[RUDisney]

Most (that's the majority) of our military folks are in the military because there are not jobs or training for them elsewhere. They have no choice at what they do NOR have they had the education or experience that would show them how to resist such action.

So, that's why so many of them have well paying jobs and have joined the national guard. They are to "ignorant" to stay in those well-paying jobs to take a pay cut to go into harms way to defend us and our way of life. They have no "choice" but to be taken away from their spouses and children. They're not volunteering to serve our nation, they just see no other way out. Whatever...

THE BEST WAY TO SUPPORT THE MILITARY
IS TO BRING THEM HOME ALIVE AND DO IT NOW. THESE
FOLKS DON'T DESERVE TO FIGHT THE WAR OF THE GEORGES,
NOW OR EVER.

So, instead of cheering them on for a job well done at keeping us safe and protected, we should just bring them home, close the curtains and hope that no bad guys ever try to harm us again? I am supporting the military through donations of toiletries and non-perishable items. I am supporting them by praying that their job will be swift and safe. Thank God we have a president that is more concerned about the safety of our nation that about making whoopie in the oval office. Maybe we wouldn't be at this place if Slick Willie did his job right.

BTW - the protests I attended during Vietnam were very
passionate and I remember NO ONE who was there to
spend a day recreating. We stopped that war and we can
stop this one too.

That's because you were all stoned back then, how could you remember? (OK, bad joke.) Seriously, I'm not sure that everyone was as passionate as you claim back then. I'm too young to judge that. But, from the representations in documentaries and movies, it seems like people were far more politically motivated than they are today. Jay Leno proves it every time he goes Jay-walking. People don't know who the president is, or the vice president, or where Iraq is. I do believe that there are alot of lemmings involved in today's protests. It gets the kids out of class, and it gives them something to do. Alot of them get caught up in supporting a cause but not knowing why they support it.

You stopped the war? Only after the administration finally realized that they were fighting a losing battle. It seems like we're right on target and focused in our mission in Iraq and that we will be victorious in ousting a brutal dictator. The people of Iraq will look back 20 years from now and talk of what a wonderful man GWB was.

 

[Jeff in BigD]

Here was an email I got after the 9/11 attacks & thought it might be an humorous read in this thread:

With all of this talk of impending war, many of us will encounter "Peace Activists" who will try and convince us that we must refrain from retaliating against the ones who terrorized us all on September 11, 2001.

These activists may be alone or in a gathering.....most of us don't know how to react to them. When you come upon one of these people, or one of their rallies, here are the proper rules of etiquette:

1. Listen politely while this person explains their views. Strike up a conversation if necessary and look very interested in their ideas. They will tell you how revenge is immoral, and that by attacking the people who did this to us, we will only bring on more violence. They will probably use many arguments, ranging from political to religious to humanitarian.

2. In the middle of their remarks, without any warning, punch them in the nose.

3. When the person gets up off of the ground, they will be very angry and they may try to hit you, so be careful.

4. Very quickly and calmly remind the person that violence only brings about more violence and remind them of their stand on this matter. Tell them if they are really committed to a non-violent approach to undeserved attacks, they will turn the other cheek and negotiate a solution. Tell them they must lead by example if they really believe what they are saying.

5. Most of them will think for a moment and then agree that you are correct.

6. As soon as they do that, hit them again. Only this time hit them much harder. Square in the nose.

7. Repeat steps 2-5 until the desired results are obtained and the person realizes how stupid of an argument he/she is making.

There is no difference in an individual attacking an unsuspecting victim or a group of terrorists attacking a nation of people. It is unacceptable and must be dealt with. Perhaps at a high cost. We owe our military a huge debt for what they are about to do for us and our children. We must support them and our leaders at times like these. We have no choice. We either strike back, VERY HARD, or we will keep getting hit in the nose.

 

[Disneycrazymom]

It is too bad that people don't understand that sometimes you have to stand up for what is right even at a cost. But then when you have everything, like we do in the country, it is hard to understand how difficult life can be elsewhere. God Bless our troops, I will be proud to welcome them home!

 

[dandave]

shortbun, Prior to your post, I really had no negative feelings towards <b>peaceful</b> protesters. I just figured that they wanted peace. I thought that they, perhaps, felt that there was still room for diplomacy. I thought that maybe they feared possible repercussions of a military strike. I thought....they thought.

It never entered my mind that the protesters viewed our military troops as uneducated idiots, who needed to be protected by The Enlightened Vomit Squad. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

They seem to be taking care of themselves pretty well, IMHO.

 

[PamOKW]

It's a real cop out to say you are against the war and against the administration but "support the troops".

It's condescending and insulting to portray our current military as people who could not get any other job and are trapped into servitude. In fact, I'd say it's BS. Vietnam had draftees who were compelled to fight in a war they didn't believe in. Our current military are all volunteer. I dare say that the majority of them take great pride in their careers and in their training. They are not lemmings either.

 

[Buz]

I support our troops because I know most of them are there because they believe in what they are doing. It is a volunteer force, the same volunteer force I was a part of 25 years ago.

What hurts me most about the protests are that I view them as selfish. They have their freedom and don't want the Iraqui's to have freedom. Watch the news, Iraquis hitting the pictures of Saddam with their shoes. They are being liberated, pure and simple.

Buz

 

[Nancy]

Shortbuns post has got me spitting mad!!!

I have friends over there, they are educated individuals who chose to join the reserves and serve their country.

That post has just insulted every single member of the military and is just plain hurtful to those people who have family serving over there.

I have never in all my time on the DIS boards been mad enough to post a reply like this. But I am NOT deleting this one!!

 

[PamOKW]

But I am NOT deleting this one!!

And there's no reason you should. Your post was excellent.

 

[JohnTBap]

Originally posted by shortbun
Most (that's the majority) of our military folks are in the military because there are not jobs or training for them elsewhere. They have no choice at what they do NOR have they had the education
or experience that would show them how to resist such
action. They are poor, minority, young and mostly
trapped.

That's not right and you know it.

 

[CathyCanada]

This can be a discussion without the screaming. If you can't make your point without attacking others and ceasing the name-calling, your posts will be deleted.

Feel free to disagree, but kindly do so by making your own point, not criticizing others who do not agree with you.

I understand that this is something that you may feel passionately about, but think before you post. This is only a bulletin board.

Thanks for your anticipated co-operation
Cathy

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Originally posted by RUDisney
So, instead of cheering them on for a job well done at keeping us safe and protected, we should just bring them home, close the curtains and hope that no bad guys ever try to harm us again? I am supporting the military through donations of toiletries and non-perishable items. I am supporting them by praying that their job will be swift and safe. Thank God we have a president that is more concerned about the safety of our nation that about making whoopie in the oval office. Maybe we wouldn't be at this place if Slick Willie did his job right.

Well said. I'm too tired to add to it in any sort of civilized manner, so I will heed CC's warning, and leave it at that.

 

[Wendy]

Originally posted by shortbun
Most (that's the majority)
of our military folks are in the military because there are
not jobs or training for them elsewhere. They have no
choice at what they do NOR have they had the education
or experience that would show them how to resist such
action. They are poor, minority, young and mostly
trapped.

Interesting theory. I'm sure my ex-boyfriend who has a master's degree from Yale and joined the army when he completed his education will find this interesting as well. Or perhaps my dh's good friend who has a master's degree from LSU and is now a helicopter pilot in the army will be amused with this statement. And let's see, I have one more friend over there fighting right now. He has a degree in aerospace aviation from the Air Force Academy and is a pilot as well. He was accepted to every single college he applied to (including one Ivy League school) and CHOSE to attend the United States Air Force Academy and dedicate his career to the service of our country.

Come to think of it, these are the only 3 people I personally know that are currently in the military. They don't exactly fit your "profile," do they? None of them are poor, in fact one of them is extremely wealthy. They all are in their 30's, and none are minorities. Trapped? Hardly! Any one of these 3 guys could be making much more money in the civilian sector and not be risking their lives right now. They're all doing it because they believe it's the right thing to do.

 

[Jeff in BigD]

Originally posted by JohnTBap
That's not right and you know it.

Totally.

 

[shortbun]

First- I don't have the kind of time to post on this
board like you guys do but I'm going address as
many of your "questions" as possible.

"You mean the policies of confrontation with the Iraqi's that President Clinton proporsed 5 years ago, but did not have the nerve to follow through with?? Pray tell, did you protest that??"

you bet I did, in print, not in an organized rally. I don't
roll over on my beliefs just because I happen to have voted
for those in office.

"Did you protest the actions of Al Quida post 9 / 11??"

I supported our action against Al Quida


"You refuse to see that the world has some mighty nasty people in it, & they are not us. And oh, BTW, THEY want YOU DEAD. End of story."

I see more than ever today that there are "nasty" people in
the world that wouldn't flinch at my death to get what they
want. End of story, indeed.

"Shortbun...maybe you'd like to tell the mom who will bury her son and his widow, with 2 small children that her husband who gave his life yesterday, was uneducated and trapped. He was the helicopter pilot who perished. His mom was on NBC via phone today and told this country how he inlisted in the military..because it was something he believed in..and then when his time was up he went through 4 years of college, rejoined the Marines..and then was trained to fly...which he lovedand has been doing for 12 years. He told them before he left that if anything were to happen to him, they were to remember he was doing something he loved for a cause he felt was right, and a country he loved. Sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. "

I grieve intensely for this man's family and I support his right to
do what he believes in. He was not uneducated and trapped
AND it was not people like him that I spoke of. What is said was
"the majority", not all, were poor and had little other choice
for jobs with training. Although this man and others do not
fit this profile, most do. I've sent out for details and facts and
will get back to you with those. Meantime, I have already
attended a prayer vigil for the injured and dead. I am helping
to collect non perishables too and will do everything I can
to support the men and women in harms way. The best way
to protect and support them is to get them out of there.
How do you get to a place where you can say this man's life
had to be forfeited? I can't get there!

"Thank God we have a president that is more concerned about the safety of our nation that about making whoopie in the oval office. Maybe we wouldn't be at this place if Slick Willie did his job right."

To me, the current president's failings are soooo much more
dangerous and damaging to our country. I hated what
"slick willie" did but no one lost their lives over his sexual
addiction. This president and his agenda are dangerous.
He has a very good propaganda machine and this one
was dropped in his lap-make no mistake about it; I feel
that George W. Bush is relishing in this and hoping it works
to his advantage politically.

"It never entered my mind that the protesters viewed our military troops as uneducated idiots, who needed to be protected by The Enlightened Vomit Squad. Thanks for clearing that up for me. "

Those are your words, not mine. None of these people are
idiots. Hope that's cleared up too.

"It's a real cop out to say you are against the war and against the administration but "support the troops".

George W. Bush and his friends are NOT the "troops".


It's condescending and insulting to portray our current military as people who could not get any other job and are trapped into servitude. In fact, I'd say it's BS. Vietnam had draftees who were compelled to fight in a war they didn't believe in. Our current military are all volunteer. I dare say that the majority of them take great pride in their careers and in their training. They are
not lemmings either."

I am aware of the difference in recruitment and the draft.
Right now, 18-26 year olds are required to "register". Their
high schools are required to turn over their names when they
drop out or graduate. The recruiters target our young people
before they leave high school. "We'll pay for your college education" It is naive
of you to think that our military is comprised of all college
graduates and folks that have an idea of what the world is
actually about. Volunteer-indeed. Volunteer to stay out of
jail, volunteer to feed the kids, volunteer to get a job, volunteer
because it's politically correct to do so/advance one's
government career, etc. I hope they all take pride and
"believe" in what they are doing. You can make yourself
believe anything, given the need. The psyche is a marvelous
thing, it protects us when we are in danger.

"What hurts me most about the protests are that I view them as selfish. They have their freedom and don't want the Iraqui's to have freedom. Watch the news, Iraquis hitting the pictures of Saddam with their shoes. They are being liberated, pure and simple."

I love the freedoms we have in this country. I'd love it if the
whole world experienced them. It's not our job to ram
our way of life/government down the throats of every country
in the world. The world is not ours for the taking. Talk about selfish! Do you realize how many countries in the world do
not enjoy our level of freedom? Are we going to take over
them too? George and his friends would like to. BTW, the
shot of the Iraqi's AND mostly U.S. servicemen cutting up
and tearing down the giant poster of Saddam WAS a great
media moment. I do believe that Iraq would be better off
without Saddam-the world would be better off, but do you
want to subsidize democracy for all? Right now, it's us-the
U.S., Great Britain, and a bunch of nations that we already
support financially(that's why many of them would have voted with us-shh, don't let on), oh yeah, Australia too.
Our schools are a mess, our roads falling apart,medical research
has far too little money, way too many people are going without health care, food, housing in THIS great democracy for us to be pouring $$$ into freeing the world in this way- big guns, smart bombs, expensive aircraft. Ahhh-the boys must have their toys.
That's all the time I have folks. I rarely post anymore-too
much living to do. You guys never dissapoint for a wake
up call though. Hope we've generated some thought.
Don't stay mad long, k?
I'll drop back again the next time I plan a trip to WDW.
Now there's a fantasyland!

 

[Mermaid02]

"I do believe that Iraq would be better off
without Saddam-the world would be better off, but do you
want to subsidize democracy for all? " -ShortBun

I'd rather subsidize (temporarily) countries like Iraq (and once the people get on their feet... and learn how to live in a democracy, they won't need much $$ from us.... they have their own) Anyway, I would rather subsidize them temporarily then generations and generations of people in this country having more kids than they can afford and living on welfare..... for some people it isn't a hand up.... but a way of life.

Don't stay mad too long- okay?

 

[Buz]

Originally posted by shortbun
Our schools are a mess, our roads falling apart,medical research has far too little money, way too many people are going without health care, food, housing in THIS great democracy for us to be pouring $$$ into freeing the world in this way- big guns, smart bombs, expensive aircraft. Ahhh-the boys must have their toys.

So we should let the Iraqui people live in fear, with no hope while we widen the gap between our standard of living and anybody else's? Just one more example of the selfishness some of our citizens are showing. But that is the price of freedom. We don't all agree. Good! That make us stronger by forcing us to examine our beliefs in light of other's opposition.

Buz

 

[jwsqrdplus2]

I may not believe in shortbun's opinions, but I truly believe in his/her right to express them. That is part of what makes this country great.

However, I would like to point out that the military is an all-volunteer organization these days unlike the Vietnam era, and the majority of those volunteers are actually very well educated. That is true in part of the awesome educational benefits offered by the military. While many people enlist with only a high school education, they retire with multiple degrees. And they serve because they feel it is the right thing to do.

I would love to send shortbun's response to all of the service academy websites just to see the reaction, but I won't! Of course, shortbun probably doesn't realize that West Point, Annapolis and Air Force Academy are some of the most difficult schools in the country to get into. So where did shortbun go to school???