Lots more scooters riding the buses now

[kaytieeldr]

but a smaller fleet dedicated to those with wheelchairs or scooters.

Nope. Separate violates the ADA.

The Dial-A-Ride in our community provides something like this

Dial-a-Ride is paratransit and typically requires things like proof of eligibility and advance reservations.

 

[maxiesmom]

My last trip in June we had a huge family(8) get on the bus with a ecv and all the people sat and never gave a seat up to help older people or children . Sure you can get on the bus with the ecv but please be aware of others needs as well. The amount of people who would let a mom holding a baby stand while they sit and look at there phone it's crazy. This happened 3 times on my last trip and I always gave up my spot if I was sitting but most the time I was standing already.

We need to remember that many people are disabled even not in a evc. The only time the evc line stressed me out was when traveling with my mother. She can't stand on a bus but can walk just fine to the rental place at the park for evc. I had to beg people to offer a seat to her or pray every time there would be a open spot. We fixed this issue later in the trip by just taking the Minnie vans.

So people who cares if a ecv gets to get on first.(as long as the rules are enforced) lets all be caring humans and offer seats to who need them.

I agree that we should all be caring humans. But to me that also means caring for those in your family, and not putting them in the position of having to beg for a seat to begin with. I took my 79 year old dad to WDW last year, and one of the first things I did was rent a car. I knew he couldn't stand on a bus, so no way would I even risk it. I have little sympathy for those who have family members (or who themselves) shouldn't be standing on a bus, yet think it is ok to get on a full bus and try to guilt others into giving up their seats. Having said that I do offer my seat to others who look like they need it more when I can.

You wouldn't know by looking at me, but I have days where there is no way I could stand on a bus. So I might be one of those healthy looking people on their phone who some think should stand up. You simply don't know by looking at others what they are dealing with. The best thing to do is to take care of your needs and the needs of your family members and not expect random strangers to do it.

I'm glad you ended up going the Minnie Van route. It may cost a bit, but I'm betting you felt the safety of your mom was well worth it.

 

[TinyTim2]

^^


I think Disney could be wise to invest in a fleet of buses with more seating,

Unfortunately over the years the amount of seats has gone down. Before Ada you could seat 53 people plus standees. Then when meeting Ada it was 47 seated minus 6 seats for 2 chairs. Then when the low floors came out it was even less seats. It all depends on how you spec out the seats when you place the order. The new ones use the set up to give more standing room then seats. I don't know how the artics are set up seat wise . They should hold more seats.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

They don't need to split up the parties - those in the scooters and the rest of their party need to wait in line the SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE. Equal treatment. I have never understood why they get to cut the lines all the time.

I'd go for that, as long as when I get to the front of the line and I can't board because it is standing room only or there isn't enough room for my scooter, the entire line stops. NO ONE else boards.

We all wait for the next bus. And if that bus arrives without a space for my scooter, we all wait again. NO ONE boards.

Once at Saratoga Springs I waited through 3 buses. I got on the 4th. Would you be willing to wait with me, every time? I mean, that would be equal treatment. Right?

 

[Betty Rohrer]

I'd go for that, as long as when I get to the front of the line and I can't board because it is standing room only or there isn't enough room for my scooter, the entire line stops. NO ONE else boards.

We all wait for the next bus. And if that bus arrives without a space for my scooter, we all wait again. NO ONE boards.

Once at Saratoga Springs I waited through 3 buses. I got on the 4th. Would you be willing to wait with me, every time? I mean, that would be equal treatment. Right?

i can just hear the ones behind us as they now have to wait and watch a nonfull bus leave. as I said earlier the ones that want scooters in the regular line better be careful what they wish for as it could end up being even longer waits as there is no cutting in front of scooter at front of line for equal treatment

 

[Fleuristic]

All this back and forth about busses is exactly why I feel the gondola being built in its current size is merely a test.

Expanding the towers and cables to the rest of the parks is dirt cheap and completely eliminates all of the debate regarding ECVs. Even the Monorail struggles to accommodate the ever increasing number of ECVs, wheelchairs and strollers.

Make no mistake I don’t believe the gondola system belongs at Disney World and will be an eyesore but it does have real world advantages such as this.

 

[goofy4tink]

I am in the camp of ECV plus up to 5 people getting on. If there are so many people waiting that the family wouldn’t get on the first bus anyway they would have to wait for a second bus if they didn’t have an Ecv they are no worse off. Yes some of their party would be at the park ahead of them but they would have gotten to the park on the second bus anyway if they didn’t have a handicapped person so the group as a whole wouldn’t be entering the park any later. Honestly the bus rides aren’t such an amazing thing that a family needs to experience them together. They really aren’t. Most people just ride quietly or chat with their neighbor. Of course if the group is mostly children without many or any other adults exceptions can be made for that. I really think the policy should be followed. Ok I know this is poorly written but I can’t figure out how to make my thoughts clearer sorry

Don't get me started on the 'I need to be with my party' issue!!! Can't tell you how many times I've had to squeeze past a dad with a huge folded double stroller, in the front half of an almost empty bus. The back has a ton of seating, no one is standing, except for dad. When asked to move to the back? 'I need to stay with my family!!'. Seriously? Are they too stupid to get off at the park by themselves? If you 'need' to be with your group, then you all move to the back!!! Geez Louise!!!!

I'll bet someone at Disney wishes they could increase the department budget for onsite rentals so this giant logistical disaster with off-site rented devices wouldn't start on the resort buses...

I am sure Disney COULD implement a better transportation system since they have plenty of MB data to track us all with... but they have chosen NOT to. I mean, if your MDE account shows that you are traveling with 5 people and Aunt Mabel is using an ECV, you think they could figure out how to communicate with the busing depot when your party wants to go to the Parks! Especially if you all have breakfast reservations at 9am at Crystal Palace or something... uhhhh gee WHERE else will you all be going that morning?! LOL

ButI would prefer they spend the extra cost on providing an exceptional Experience... not find the cheapest way to show me they are cutting costs...

We already have ECV abuse. There are a lot of people that rent them, but don't really need them. Why? They 'think' they are going to get on attractions more quickly, or they just don't want to walk and get tired, like the rest of us! If Disney ever instituted special transit for those using ECVs, to get to ADRs, you would see a lot more abuse.
Also, there are many guests who have their own ECVs. They are very good with them...they know how to board a bus, they know how to navigate a park in crowds. Many have even gone so far as to rent cars in order to avoid the looks and comments at bus stops. That doesn't seem fair to me.

I'd go for that, as long as when I get to the front of the line and I can't board because it is standing room only or there isn't enough room for my scooter, the entire line stops. NO ONE else boards.

We all wait for the next bus. And if that bus arrives without a space for my scooter, we all wait again. NO ONE boards.

Once at Saratoga Springs I waited through 3 buses. I got on the 4th. Would you be willing to wait with me, every time? I mean, that would be equal treatment. Right?

I was at the MK bus stops, going back to my resort. There was an older couple, both on scooters. They were the only ones at the stop. We got to talking...seems they had had to wait for another bus because the one that had been there couldn't load them. But....the next bus came up, about 20 mins later, and that bus had an issue with it's ramp...so they couldn't be boarded, yet again. That's two buses they couldn't use. I decided (since I'm a good little transportation moderator) to stay with them, to see how this all ended. A third bus came up....it wouldn't kneel correctly to get the ramp down!! Are you kidding me? I do admit to taking a bit of a nutty with the driver...told him he was the third bus to come and not be able to accommodate this couple...in the midday heat of August!!! He said he would radio for a bus....I told him that's what the last driver said he would do, 25 mins prior!! I stayed yet again.....it took that fourth bus to accommodate them. I had been at the stop for over an hour, which means they had been there close to 90 mins..in the heat/humidity. They were very understanding. Me? Not so much. I'm the idiot that stopped at the front desk at the resort and lodged a complaint about the bus system that day. I just felt so badly for that couple!!! That kind of thing just shouldn't happen at WDW!!!

People just need to step back and realize that the buses aren't going to be perfect. They aren't your personal bus. You are going to have to wait, and you may not get a seat. It is just like any other public transit system...you get on, you sit if there's a seat, or you may have to stand. You have no idea why others took seats, even though they look perfectly fine to you. If you must have a seat, then you are free to wait for the next bus, and step aside and allow others to stand on the bus. Or, rent a car. I'm almost 70. I have had others jump up and offer me a seat..I usually thank them and allow someone else to take that seat. I've also gotten up to give my seat to someone else...several times when the men around me just sat there. Those were pretty funny!!! When they saw me get up and give my seat to someone, they jumped up, telling me to sit in their seats. No thanks...I'm good.
We all need to have a little compassion and patience when traveling at WDW. Is it going to ruin your vacation if you have to stand, waiting for an ECV, or two, be loaded? I try to think that most need those scooters. I will say that there are fewer in DL, and they are almost non-existent in DLParis. This seems to be a WDW issue, and it's not going away!!

 

[Sarahraegraham]

Don't get me started on the 'I need to be with my party' issue!!! Can't tell you how many times I've had to squeeze past a dad with a huge folded double stroller, in the front half of an almost empty bus. The back has a ton of seating, no one is standing, except for dad. When asked to move to the back? 'I need to stay with my family!!'. Seriously? Are they too stupid to get off at the park by themselves? If you 'need' to be with your group, then you all move to the back!!! Geez Louise!!!!


We already have ECV abuse. There are a lot of people that rent them, but don't really need them. Why? They 'think' they are going to get on attractions more quickly, or they just don't want to walk and get tired, like the rest of us! If Disney ever instituted special transit for those using ECVs, to get to ADRs, you would see a lot more abuse.
Also, there are many guests who have their own ECVs. They are very good with them...they know how to board a bus, they know how to navigate a park in crowds. Many have even gone so far as to rent cars in order to avoid the looks and comments at bus stops. That doesn't seem fair to me.


I was at the MK bus stops, going back to my resort. There was an older couple, both on scooters. They were the only ones at the stop. We got to talking...seems they had had to wait for another bus because the one that had been there couldn't load them. But....the next bus came up, about 20 mins later, and that bus had an issue with it's ramp...so they couldn't be boarded, yet again. That's two buses they couldn't use. I decided (since I'm a good little transportation moderator) to stay with them, to see how this all ended. A third bus came up....it wouldn't kneel correctly to get the ramp down!! Are you kidding me? I do admit to taking a bit of a nutty with the driver...told him he was the third bus to come and not be able to accommodate this couple...in the midday heat of August!!! He said he would radio for a bus....I told him that's what the last driver said he would do, 25 mins prior!! I stayed yet again.....it took that fourth bus to accommodate them. I had been at the stop for over an hour, which means they had been there close to 90 mins..in the heat/humidity. They were very understanding. Me? Not so much. I'm the idiot that stopped at the front desk at the resort and lodged a complaint about the bus system that day. I just felt so badly for that couple!!! That kind of thing just shouldn't happen at WDW!!!

People just need to step back and realize that the buses aren't going to be perfect. They aren't your personal bus. You are going to have to wait, and you may not get a seat. It is just like any other public transit system...you get on, you sit if there's a seat, or you may have to stand. You have no idea why others took seats, even though they look perfectly fine to you. If you must have a seat, then you are free to wait for the next bus, and step aside and allow others to stand on the bus. Or, rent a car. I'm almost 70. I have had others jump up and offer me a seat..I usually thank them and allow someone else to take that seat. I've also gotten up to give my seat to someone else...several times when the men around me just sat there. Those were pretty funny!!! When they saw me get up and give my seat to someone, they jumped up, telling me to sit in their seats. No thanks...I'm good.
We all need to have a little compassion and patience when traveling at WDW. Is it going to ruin your vacation if you have to stand, waiting for an ECV, or two, be loaded? I try to think that most need those scooters. I will say that there are fewer in DL, and they are almost non-existent in DLParis. This seems to be a WDW issue, and it's not going away!!

 

[Moliphino]

Just an observation, so please don't flame me lol.... I went to Tokyo Disneyland a couple years ago and one thing that stood out to me was the complete lack of ECV in the parks. I saw ONE person riding one the entire time I was there, and she was American (very obvious southern accent). I think I saw one or two of the many elderly individuals using canes, but that was it. I totally get that there are people who need the scooters or other aids to get around, and I'm not bashing them, but I'm genuinely curious about the difference.... is Japan as a society just so much healthier that they don't have much need for mobility devices? Do they just not leave the house if they aren't very mobile, or is it a pride thing where they don't want to be seen as needing help? Not trying to be offensive with those statements, just trying to understand why there's such a huge difference..... Same with strollers, there were VERY few strollers, and the ones I did see were small umbrella style strollers, and they were only being used for the really little ones. Stroller "parking lots" were practically non-existant. The difference was shocking to say the least.

Disneyland Paris was the same way.

 

[Moliphino]

They don't need to split up the parties - those in the scooters and the rest of their party need to wait in line the SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE. Equal treatment. I have never understood why they get to cut the lines all the time.

I think the setup at Epcot (and MK?) is a decent compromise, going through the line until the point where they'd be getting on the next bus and splitting there so they can load first. That at least prevents someone from jumping ahead of 4 busloads of people at park close.

 

[TinyTim2]

Don't get me started on the 'I need to be with my party' issue!!! Can't tell you how many times I've had to squeeze past a dad with a huge folded double stroller, in the front half of an almost empty bus. The back has a ton of seating, no one is standing, except for dad. When asked to move to the back? 'I need to stay with my family!!'. Seriously? Are they too stupid to get off at the park by themselves? If you 'need' to be with your group, then you all move to the back!!! Geez Louise!!!! When I had the problem of people not moving back after asking them several times so everybody can get on I would pull the icc button (parking brakes) as soon as the air dumped and they realized I'm not moving they moved to the back. Worked every

People just need to step back and realize that the buses aren't going to be perfect. They aren't your personal bus. You are going to have to wait, and you may not get a seat. It is just like any other public transit system...you get on, you sit if there's a seat, or you stand. Very well said. The only thing I could add is that there is only one seat that is guaranteed and that is the drivers. Also the ramps are supposed to be able to be manually deployed and retracted it's a royal pain but can be done.

 

[SteveH]

Nope. Separate violates the ADA.

You missed the point, I never said eliminate the bus fleet, I'm talking about adding to it. If you want to ride the fleet, and wait in line go for it. I'm sure others would appreciate a different option.

Dial-a-Ride is paratransit and typically requires things like proof of eligibility and advance reservations.

This is Disney, not a federally funded bus service. There are always options, until people just say no no no. Trying to think creatively to provide better assistance.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You missed the point, I never said eliminate the bus fleet, I'm talking about adding to it. If you want to ride the fleet, and wait in line go for it. I'm sure others would appreciate a different option.

"...a smaller fleet dedicated to those with wheelchairs or scooters" is treating the mobility device users differently. The ADA does not allow this.

This is Disney, not a federally funded bus service. There are always options, until people just say no no no. Trying to think creatively to provide better assistance.

Funding source matters zip. A "creative additional but separate fleet" operating similar to Dial-a-Ride would not work. First, it's different vehicles. Then, Dial-a-Ride needs to be reserved in advance. It cannot operate on demand, and expecting some WDW visitors to make reservations is treating them unequally. Next, my local paratransit has over 300 vehicles and handles over 3,000 rides daily.

it just wouldn't work, financially or logistically. People just need to be patient. Can't we all just get along?

 

[SteveH]

It cannot operate on demand

I give up, you've totally missed the point of trying to use some technology and creativity to help out.

As to your comment, sure we can all and mostly people do get along, but reading through this thread and others it's very clear this is a problem that could be handled differently.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Don't get me started on the 'I need to be with my party' issue!!! Can't tell you how many times I've had to squeeze past a dad with a huge folded double stroller, in the front half of an almost empty bus. The back has a ton of seating, no one is standing, except for dad. When asked to move to the back? 'I need to stay with my family!!'. Seriously? Are they too stupid to get off at the park by themselves? If you 'need' to be with your group, then you all move to the back!!! Geez Louise!!!!


We already have ECV abuse. There are a lot of people that rent them, but don't really need them. Why? They 'think' they are going to get on attractions more quickly, or they just don't want to walk and get tired, like the rest of us! If Disney ever instituted special transit for those using ECVs, to get to ADRs, you would see a lot more abuse.
Also, there are many guests who have their own ECVs. They are very good with them...they know how to board a bus, they know how to navigate a park in crowds. Many have even gone so far as to rent cars in order to avoid the looks and comments at bus stops. That doesn't seem fair to me.


I was at the MK bus stops, going back to my resort. There was an older couple, both on scooters. They were the only ones at the stop. We got to talking...seems they had had to wait for another bus because the one that had been there couldn't load them. But....the next bus came up, about 20 mins later, and that bus had an issue with it's ramp...so they couldn't be boarded, yet again. That's two buses they couldn't use. I decided (since I'm a good little transportation moderator) to stay with them, to see how this all ended. A third bus came up....it wouldn't kneel correctly to get the ramp down!! Are you kidding me? I do admit to taking a bit of a nutty with the driver...told him he was the third bus to come and not be able to accommodate this couple...in the midday heat of August!!! He said he would radio for a bus....I told him that's what the last driver said he would do, 25 mins prior!! I stayed yet again.....it took that fourth bus to accommodate them. I had been at the stop for over an hour, which means they had been there close to 90 mins..in the heat/humidity. They were very understanding. Me? Not so much. I'm the idiot that stopped at the front desk at the resort and lodged a complaint about the bus system that day. I just felt so badly for that couple!!! That kind of thing just shouldn't happen at WDW!!!

People just need to step back and realize that the buses aren't going to be perfect. They aren't your personal bus. You are going to have to wait, and you may not get a seat. It is just like any other public transit system...you get on, you sit if there's a seat, or you may have to stand. You have no idea why others took seats, even though they look perfectly fine to you. If you must have a seat, then you are free to wait for the next bus, and step aside and allow others to stand on the bus. Or, rent a car. I'm almost 70. I have had others jump up and offer me a seat..I usually thank them and allow someone else to take that seat. I've also gotten up to give my seat to someone else...several times when the men around me just sat there. Those were pretty funny!!! When they saw me get up and give my seat to someone, they jumped up, telling me to sit in their seats. No thanks...I'm good.
We all need to have a little compassion and patience when traveling at WDW. Is it going to ruin your vacation if you have to stand, waiting for an ECV, or two, be loaded? I try to think that most need those scooters. I will say that there are fewer in DL, and they are almost non-existent in DLParis. This seems to be a WDW issue, and it's not going away!!

now all of the ones wanting ECVs in regular line better look hard at this post as there would be no cutting in line so the whole line would have been stopped for an hour, how is this going to go over esp parents wanting to get their kids back to resort for naps

 

[maxiesmom]

I give up, you've totally missed the point of trying to use some technology and creativity to help out.

As to your comment, sure we can all and mostly people do get along, but reading through this thread and others it's very clear this is a problem that could be handled differently.

If people had patience and compassion, and realized it is a fancy public bus system, then there would be no problem. The problem is people feeling resentful of those who use wheels to get around, because of the one "perk" they get with the buses. A perk that is in place for the safety of others riding the bus. And put in place because of how few spots there are on the bus for those who use wheels.

I have some faith in Disney on this one. If they could figure out a way that moved ECVs/scooters/wheelchairs in a larger number with less impact on the ambulatory guests, I think they would have done it by now. That is, a way that doesn't smack of segregation, which is what having something separate for ECVS sounds like. It comes off as "Keep those less than able people over there, on their own bus, away from us that can walk". I'm sure most people don't mean it like that, but it is how it sounds.

 

[goofy4tink]

Soooo, if there were to be buses/vans only for those using ecv, and their party, who is now going to pay for that addtl cost? Those that are using the buses? Or, perhaps those that don’t care to wait to board the regular bus?
This is truly a tempest in a teapot. Are there large parties with an ecv user? Sure. But it’s not the norm. It’s usually fewer than six people. And many times, it’s less than that! So, if the bus becomes completely full, then there will be fewer than ten people affected! Those ten or so guests that would have boarded the bus if there had been no ecv group. So they get to wait an addtl time. Perhaps they could be given FPs to use. Of course, then those behind them will want some too, even though they wouldn’t have gotten on the bus.
People, seriously, are you in that much of a hurry that you can’t give up this small amount of time? There just aren’t all that many instances where guests have to wait for another bus. Yes, when it happens to you, it stinks. But in all reality it just isn’t a huge deal in the big picture.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I give up, you've totally missed the point of trying to use some technology and creativity to help out.

Not missing the point. Just, your "solution" isn't one, for a variety of reasons.

who is now going to pay for that addtl cost?

A new wheelchair accessible minibus costs upwards of $50,000. I do like your suggestion of who should pay for them, even if the suggestion isn't feasible.

 

[piccolopat]

"...a smaller fleet dedicated to those with wheelchairs or scooters" is treating the mobility device users differently. The ADA does not allow this. Funding source matters zip. A "creative additional but separate fleet" operating similar to Dial-a-Ride would not work. First, it's different vehicles. Then, Dial-a-Ride needs to be reserved in advance. It cannot operate on demand, and expecting some WDW visitors to make reservations is treating them unequally. Next, my local paratransit has over 300 vehicles and handles over 3,000 rides daily. it just wouldn't work, financially or logistically. People just need to be patient. Can't we all just get along?

I admit that I am not an expert on the ADA but I am aware of many ways that those in wheelchairs or scooters are treated differently today. For example, there are public paratransit options and specially designated parking spots that exist today under ADA rules. If these are allowed, why couldn't Disney have their own version of paratransit? They could even provide closer "door-to-door" service since some buses are quite a bit away from parks and even some hotel buildings. By the way, under the ADA only one person is required to be allowed to travel with the disabled person and the rest can be accommodated if space permits. It sounds like Disney is generous in its allowance of 5 additional people rather than 1 at times when buses are overcrowded already.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If these are allowed, why couldn't Disney have their own version of paratransit?

Boston's paratransit service has been around for over 40 years. Per Wikipedia, "The Ride (sometimes styled as THE RIDE) is the [MBTA's] program for people with...disabilities that make it difficult or impossible to ride the MBTA's fixed-route bus, train, and ferry services." While Disney distances may seem far, they're actually relatively adjacent. Somebody can ask Disney why they don't provide specialized service, but I'm relatively certain certain the response would be that there's no need.

By the way, under the ADA only one person is required to be allowed to travel with the disabled person and the rest can be accommodated if space permits.

Hey, I'm fine with that, as long as ambulatory visitors are fine with being separated into groups of two.