In Defense of Bob Chapek

[BrianL]

Don't act like you don't support a certain political party, then use the term 'woke'. Please!

That word is so toxic - the worst recently invented word. It's just dumb.

 

[bbeagle]

I don't know how old you are, but as someone who was a fan back in the 1980s when Boy George and Culture Club were a big deal, George liked to play coy, while at times claiming to be bi. He didn't officially come out as homosexual until the 1990s. Maybe you have special insight about his teen years in the 1970s?

Elton John, Boy George, Liberace, Paul Lynde.... I could go on.... all were clearly gay in the 70s/80s to those who understood the gay culture. To those who didn't, they didn't know.

Of course none of those people (or tons of others) came out back then. It was a death sentence if you did. If Paul Lynde came out as gay, clearly he would have been kicked off of the Hollywood Squares. This is exactly the type of society many people want to go back to.

 

[disneyseniors]

Elton John, Boy George, Liberace, Paul Lynde.... I could go on.... all were clearly gay in the 70s/80s to those who understood the gay culture. To those who didn't, they didn't know.

Of course none of those people (or tons of others) came out back then. It was a death sentence if you did. If Paul Lynde came out as gay, clearly he would have been kicked off of the Hollywood Squares. This is exactly the type of society many people want to go back to.

I don't agree at all. I went to HS in the 60's and we had one known "gay" boy who took all the "girl" classes of typing, home ec , etc. We knew and we didn't care at all. He was a good guy and he didn't flaunt it but just was. No one picked on him or even cared at all. There were others but, again, it was no big deal back then, at least in our HS. I would love to be in that society again where you c an be what you are openingly, like then, and never gave it another thought. I lived through that era and that was the way it was.

 

[yensid's offspring]

Paul Lynde was Gay?

By the way, Bob Chapek, the topic of this thread before it became unglued, was a huge Hollywood Squares fan and his bio says Karma Chameleon is his favorite song. I'll take the center square for the win.

 

[yensid's offspring]

I don't agree at all. I went to HS in the 60's and we had one known "gay" boy who took all the "girl" classes of typing, home ec , etc. We knew and we didn't care at all. He was a good guy and he didn't flaunt it but just was. No one picked on him or even cared at all. There were others but, again, it was no big deal back then, at least in our HS. I would love to be in that society again where you c an be what you are openingly, like then, and never gave it another thought. I lived through that era and that was the way it was.

Everything was simpler back then, however, I think you are looking at things only from your perspective. I'm pretty sure that if you asked that one boy who was commonly known as being gay, he would probably say he did not feel like he was openly supported at that time. He was not out and did not get to live his life as an out gay young man at that time. Though it was obvious and no one discriminated against him for it, he still could not live his authentic life. No one talked about it and I'm sure he did walk around telling everyone he was gay or openly go on dates with a boyfriend openly, at that time.

Just because a person is not being bullied, teased or discriminated against, doesn't mean that it was accepted or that that person perceived the environment to be an inclusive, supportive or loving one. I am not coming down on you, just trying to provide some perspective.

 

[BrianL]

Everything was simpler back then, however, I think you are looking at things only from your perspective. I'm pretty sure that if you asked that one boy who was commonly known as being gay, he would probably say he did not feel like he was openly supported at that time. He was not out and did not get to live his life as an out gay young man at that time. Though it was obvious and no one discriminated against him for it, he still could not live his authentic life. No one talked about it and I'm sure he did walk around telling everyone he was gay or openly go on dates with a boyfriend openly, at that time.

Just because a person is not being bullied, teased or discriminated against, doesn't mean that it was accepted or that that person perceived the environment to be an inclusive, supportive or loving one. I am not coming down on you, just trying to provide some perspective.

I know it's common for people to pine for "the good ol' days" and that they usually weren't as good as remembered, especially for certain groups. As a child of the 80's though, I will say that it felt like a lot of progress was being made at the time, then we somehow backslid. The world became more divisive instead of travelling down the road of becomming less so. I am not really sure why that is. Certainly there have been advances for a lot of previously marginalized groups, but it also seems like more people actively fight against it - so it's better but also worse in some ways too.

 

[cjlong88]

I don't agree at all. I went to HS in the 60's and we had one known "gay" boy who took all the "girl" classes of typing, home ec , etc. We knew and we didn't care at all. He was a good guy and he didn't flaunt it but just was. No one picked on him or even cared at all. There were others but, again, it was no big deal back then, at least in our HS. I would love to be in that society again where you c an be what you are openingly, like then, and never gave it another thought. I lived through that era and that was the way it was.

Another perspective...I'm gay, and I'm happy to share my experience in high school from 2002-2006.

I can tell you I was tortured from the moment I stepped on my high school campus to the moment I graduated. Nobody "saw" it because the boys who bullied me didn't want to get caught, so it always happened at the right moment. Those moments being when no one was watching, or the people who did watch wouldn't say anything. It's not something that people do out in the open for all to witness.

I had one teacher actually worried about my safety my junior year because she did catch it once. I'll never forget Mrs. Andrews. I told her it was nothing, because had I actually advocated for myself, my punishment from my bullies would have been much worse. Being scared every single day of school, no way I was taking that chance. I suffered bouts of depression and suicide (I never dared tell anyone) because I grew up hearing that something was wrong with me. It wasn't always directed to me so blatantly. My church telling me I wasn't going to heaven. The snide remarks or slurs under peoples' breaths. My own parents talking about how being gay was wrong. I tried so hard to not be gay because everyone around me convinced me that what I was wasn't okay. It was brutal to my own psyche. Graduating and moving out of Kansas provided a huge sense of relief for me. I could just be me and actually find a place where no one would treat me differently because of it. Then I learned there was nothing wrong with me to begin with -- and there was a lot of unlearning I had to do and self esteem I had to build.

And on the surface my parents NEVER knew about the things that happened to me in high school. My dad still doesn't know to this day, and he was one of my principals.

I hope people learn to understand that what you see and what's really happening "behind the scenes" can be two very different things. I'm glad things are changing -- I'm a teacher and I see that more people are more accepting, and that's wonderful.

But I will also say that bullying is still a big part of school culture, and a student's sexuality is still weaponized to hurt them or make them feel less than everyone else. The difference is that now I am the adult who is standing up for the kids and saying something. I know what to look for, and I know how help my LGBTQ+ students through these tough situations so that they (1) know they don't have to change a damn thing about themselves and (2) they are given the tools to advocate for themselves so they don't suffer internally for years of their lives. I wish someone would have been there to support me like that when I was growing up. Maybe I would could have enjoyed my adolescent years...

I don't look for pity. I'm happy. I'm healthy. My husband and I are successful. I absolutely love my life. But I do hope people realize the severe physical and emotional pain I endured and actively work to make this world a place where stuff like that doesn't happen. To anyone.

 

[k5xs]

Another perspective...I'm gay, and I'm happy to share my experience in high school from 2002-2006.

I can tell you I was tortured from the moment I stepped on my high school campus to the moment I graduated. Nobody "saw" it because the boys who bullied me didn't want to get caught, so it always happened at the right moment. Those moments being when no one was watching, or the people who did watch wouldn't say anything. It's not something that people do out in the open for all to witness.

I had one teacher actually worried about my safety my junior year because she did catch it once. I'll never forget Mrs. Andrews. I told her it was nothing, because had I actually advocated for myself, my punishment from my bullies would have been much worse. Being scared every single day of school, no way I was taking that chance. I suffered bouts of depression and suicide (I never dared tell anyone) because I grew up hearing that something was wrong with me. It wasn't always directed to me so blatantly. My church telling me I wasn't going to heaven. The snide remarks or slurs under peoples' breaths. My own parents talking about how being gay was wrong. I tried so hard to not be gay because everyone around me convinced me that what I was wasn't okay. It was brutal to my own psyche. Graduating and moving out of Kansas provided a huge sense of relief for me. I could just be me and actually find a place where no one would treat me differently because of it. Then I learned there was nothing wrong with me to begin with -- and there was a lot of unlearning I had to do and self esteem I had to build.

And on the surface my parents NEVER knew about the things that happened to me in high school. My dad still doesn't know to this day, and he was one of my principals.

I hope people learn to understand that what you see and what's really happening "behind the scenes" can be two very different things. I'm glad things are changing -- I'm a teacher and I see that more people more accepting, and that's wonderful.

But I will also say that bullying is still a big part of school culture, and a student's sexuality is still weaponized to hurt them or make them feel less than everyone else. The difference is that now I am the adult who is standing up for the kids and saying something. I know what to look for, and I know how help my LGBTQ+ students through these tough situations so that they (1) know they don't have to change a damn thing about themselves and (2) they are given the tools to advocate for themselves so they don't suffer internally for years of their lives. I wish someone would have been there to support me like that when I was growing up. Maybe I would could have enjoyed my adolescent years...

I don't look for pity. I'm happy. I'm healthy. My husband and I are successful. I absolutely love my life. But I do hope people realize the sever physical and emotional pain I endured and actively work to make this world a place where stuff like that doesn't happen. To anyone.

Thanks for sharing all that.

 

[BrianL]

Another perspective...I'm gay, and I'm happy to share my experience in high school from 2002-2006.

I can tell you I was tortured from the moment I stepped on my high school campus to the moment I graduated. Nobody "saw" it because the boys who bullied me didn't want to get caught, so it always happened at the right moment. Those moments being when no one was watching, or the people who did watch wouldn't say anything. It's not something that people do out in the open for all to witness.

I had one teacher actually worried about my safety my junior year because she did catch it once. I'll never forget Mrs. Andrews. I told her it was nothing, because had I actually advocated for myself, my punishment from my bullies would have been much worse. Being scared every single day of school, no way I was taking that chance. I suffered bouts of depression and suicide (I never dared tell anyone) because I grew up hearing that something was wrong with me. It wasn't always directed to me so blatantly. My church telling me I wasn't going to heaven. The snide remarks or slurs under peoples' breaths. My own parents talking about how being gay was wrong. I tried so hard to not be gay because everyone around me convinced me that what I was wasn't okay. It was brutal to my own psyche. Graduating and moving out of Kansas provided a huge sense of relief for me. I could just be me and actually find a place where no one would treat me differently because of it. Then I learned there was nothing wrong with me to begin with -- and there was a lot of unlearning I had to do and self esteem I had to build.

And on the surface my parents NEVER knew about the things that happened to me in high school. My dad still doesn't know to this day, and he was one of my principals.

I hope people learn to understand that what you see and what's really happening "behind the scenes" can be two very different things. I'm glad things are changing -- I'm a teacher and I see that more people more accepting, and that's wonderful.

But I will also say that bullying is still a big part of school culture, and a student's sexuality is still weaponized to hurt them or make them feel less than everyone else. The difference is that now I am the adult who is standing up for the kids and saying something. I know what to look for, and I know how help my LGBTQ+ students through these tough situations so that they (1) know they don't have to change a damn thing about themselves and (2) they are given the tools to advocate for themselves so they don't suffer internally for years of their lives. I wish someone would have been there to support me like that when I was growing up. Maybe I would could have enjoyed my adolescent years...

I don't look for pity. I'm happy. I'm healthy. My husband and I are successful. I absolutely love my life. But I do hope people realize the sever physical and emotional pain I endured and actively work to make this world a place where stuff like that doesn't happen. To anyone.

I got bullied a lot at school too. I was called "gay" even though I am actually not - I just wasn't too good with the girls, you know? It could definitely be tough - though when I think about it, gay isn't at all the worst thing they could call me. Of course, it was just a way to differentiate me, to justify their poor treatment of me. I pretty much got over what they thought early on, though I know not everyone can do that. I'm sorry you had to go through that - I know it's tough!

 

[Smugpugmug]

Another perspective...I'm gay, and I'm happy to share my experience in high school from 2002-2006.

I can tell you I was tortured from the moment I stepped on my high school campus to the moment I graduated. Nobody "saw" it because the boys who bullied me didn't want to get caught, so it always happened at the right moment. Those moments being when no one was watching, or the people who did watch wouldn't say anything. It's not something that people do out in the open for all to witness.

I had one teacher actually worried about my safety my junior year because she did catch it once. I'll never forget Mrs. Andrews. I told her it was nothing, because had I actually advocated for myself, my punishment from my bullies would have been much worse. Being scared every single day of school, no way I was taking that chance. I suffered bouts of depression and suicide (I never dared tell anyone) because I grew up hearing that something was wrong with me. It wasn't always directed to me so blatantly. My church telling me I wasn't going to heaven. The snide remarks or slurs under peoples' breaths. My own parents talking about how being gay was wrong. I tried so hard to not be gay because everyone around me convinced me that what I was wasn't okay. It was brutal to my own psyche. Graduating and moving out of Kansas provided a huge sense of relief for me. I could just be me and actually find a place where no one would treat me differently because of it. Then I learned there was nothing wrong with me to begin with -- and there was a lot of unlearning I had to do and self esteem I had to build.

And on the surface my parents NEVER knew about the things that happened to me in high school. My dad still doesn't know to this day, and he was one of my principals.

I hope people learn to understand that what you see and what's really happening "behind the scenes" can be two very different things. I'm glad things are changing -- I'm a teacher and I see that more people more accepting, and that's wonderful.

But I will also say that bullying is still a big part of school culture, and a student's sexuality is still weaponized to hurt them or make them feel less than everyone else. The difference is that now I am the adult who is standing up for the kids and saying something. I know what to look for, and I know how help my LGBTQ+ students through these tough situations so that they (1) know they don't have to change a damn thing about themselves and (2) they are given the tools to advocate for themselves so they don't suffer internally for years of their lives. I wish someone would have been there to support me like that when I was growing up. Maybe I would could have enjoyed my adolescent years...

I don't look for pity. I'm happy. I'm healthy. My husband and I are successful. I absolutely love my life. But I do hope people realize the sever physical and emotional pain I endured and actively work to make this world a place where stuff like that doesn't happen. To anyone.

Thank you for sharing this. I would've loved to have a supportive teacher like you when I was a struggling closeted LGBT kid in high school. I was in high school from 2011-2015 and though I wasn't bullied, I definitely felt uncomfortable to come out until I was a senior. When I did come out, I was not allowed to go to prom with my partner at the time since only boy + girl pairs were allowed, not same sex ones. If it matters, I went to high school in New Jersey.

My previous struggle with allowing myself to represent my true, authentic self is why I have issue with people calling acceptance of LBGT folks "wokeness". Even back in the 90s, Disney had extended healthcare for LGBT employees and that was criticized in the same vein so this isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[Gypsybear]

"Pandering wokeness"? I rolled my eyes so hard that they nearly fell out of my skull. But yes Disney has always been political in ways that didn't inherently have anything to do with their business. This isn't new.

I rolled my eyes so hard, I burned 50 calories. I agree that Chapek isn't the entire issue, however, he's the person in charge.

For the person who says that he can't control everything. I respectfully disagree. The person is charge is ultimately where the buck stops. S/he can hire replacements for the folks who aren't keeping up their end. S/he can hold those individuals accountable. And no, you don't hold them accountable by giving them huge raises year after year. You either do the job you were hired to do, or you're cut. It's that simple. Also, don't be making cuts, and then have your hired executives publically state that there have been cuts to portion sizes for example, and that it's ok because the US has a waistline issue. That's NOT good business. How people choose to spend their money is their business. That person would have been cut if I were in charge. Chapek could have done the same. But he didn't. Why, because it affects the bottom line in a positive manner. One thing currently affecting their bottom line is merchandise. Or rather, the lack thereof, of quality merchandise in abundance.

As to their politics, they've always been political, just not so open about it before. Think back to Orange Bird, and the politics there. Being so open about it has just caught up with them, with the current state of affairs in the US.

Final note, sorry for being all over the place, I'm trying to work and be here also. The one thing, more than ANY other thing that will keep me away from the parks. The blatant disregard/disrespect for people. The issues that CMs are currently facing with rude attendees. People trying to bring weapons into the parks. People physically assaulting each other, and CMs. People being flat our drunk off their collective butts in the parks, puking along the way. People trashing the parks and then complaining about the parks looking trashed. The last time I was at WDW, it looked more like Six Flags, in terms of cleanliness. Those things, more than Chapek, will keep me out of the parks.

And before anyone questions me, I'm a gay 58 year old man, who is latino, and grew up in FL. I've been visiting WDW since it opened, and DL since the 90s. Sooooo, bottom line, people can choose to like Chapek, or not like Chapek. It does not matter, one way or the other. Just be respectful of the parks, and the people.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I rolled my eyes so hard, I burned 50 calories. I agree that Chapek isn't the entire issue, however, he's the person in charge.

For the person who says that he can't control everything. I respectfully disagree. The person is charge is ultimately where the buck stops. S/he can hire replacements for the folks who aren't keeping up their end. S/he can hold those individuals accountable. And no, you don't hold them accountable by giving them huge raises year after year. You either do the job you were hired to do, or you're cut. It's that simple. Also, don't be making cuts, and then have your hired executives publically state that there have been cuts to portion sizes for example, and that it's ok because the US has a waistline issue. That's NOT good business. How people choose to spend their money is their business. That person would have been cut if I were in charge. Chapek could have done the same. But he didn't. Why, because it affects the bottom line in a positive manner. One thing currently affecting their bottom line is merchandise. Or rather, the lack thereof, of quality merchandise in abundance.

As to their politics, they've always been political, just not so open about it before. Think back to Orange Bird, and the politics there. Being so open about it has just caught up with them, with the current state of affairs in the US.

Final note, sorry for being all over the place, I'm trying to work and be here also. The one thing, more than ANY other thing that will keep me away from the parks. The blatant disregard/disrespect for people. The issues that CMs are currently facing with rude attendees. People trying to bring weapons into the parks. People physically assaulting each other, and CMs. People being flat our drunk off their collective butts in the parks, puking along the way. People trashing the parks and then complaining about the parks looking trashed. The last time I was at WDW, it looked more like Six Flags, in terms of cleanliness. Those things, more than Chapek, will keep me out of the parks.

And before anyone questions me, I'm a gay 58 year old man, who is latino, and grew up in FL. I've been visiting WDW since it opened, and DL since the 90s. Sooooo, bottom line, people can choose to like Chapek, or not like Chapek. It does not matter, one way or the other. Just be respectful of the parks, and the people.

I think this is an "in a perfect world" opinion, I'm sure if you dig beyond the surface info that is reported to the gen pop, there are a lot more nuances. It has been said on this thread already, but everyone thinks they'd make a great CEO, and that all these very complex issues businesses face are really super simple. I do whole heartedly agree about being respectful

 

[goofy4prez]

Don't act like you don't support a certain political party, then use the term 'woke'. Please!

I could care less about woke... Never even mentioned it at all nor did I imply it. In fact, I really dislike the word. Nor is it a rallying point for me. And no, I do not support a certain political party. I'm going to take the high road here, I'm not going to take the road you just went with me. Peace and have a magical day.

 

[Disney Bobby]

If you don't think Families and Parents have anything to do with Disney's business, I can't help you.

Disney isn't into the business of excluding people. If someone has two dads, Disney will still entertain them and make them happy. Disney won't exclude them from entering the property and chastise them like you want.

Disney has shown people kissing in their cartoons and movies for almost a hundred years. The Disney Channel had a two same-sex kisses back in 2017. There was cross-dressing as far back as 1944. Nothing has changed with Disney.

The only thing that has changed is that a certain political party has become far too sensitive. When Boy George came out in the 1970s, that political party didn't like it, but they understood it was a free country and didn't go as far to pass laws to cancel and attack him. For things like this, they now are.

No, you can't help me. Disney as a business has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS trying to get into the sex education of elementary school students. Nobody at Disney was elected to decide these things for parents. And "chastise them like you want" is an absolute LIE. I never said any such thing, nor would I ever condone that. Absurdly dishonest. But Disney absolutely has changed. None of this stupidity was even on the radar 10 years ago. Nobody is "canceling" anybody. Parents and parents alone should have the say in when their kids are exposed to these topics. You don't get a say in it. I don't get a say in it. And Disney certainly doesn't get a say it in.

But you are right about one thing. The hypocrites at Disney aren't in the business of excluding people. They don't even exclude the slaves owners in the Chinese government.

 

[DL1WDW2]

No, you can't help me. Disney as a business has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS trying to get into the sex education of elementary school students. Nobody at Disney was elected to decide these things for parents. And "chastise them like you want" is an absolute LIE. I never said any such thing, nor would I ever condone that. Absurdly dishonest. But Disney absolutely has changed. None of this stupidity was even on the radar 10 years ago. Nobody is "canceling" anybody. Parents and parents alone should have the say in when their kids are exposed to these topics. You don't get a say in it. I don't get a say in it. And Disney certainly doesn't get a say it in.

But you are right about one thing. The hypocrites at Disney aren't in the business of excluding people. They don't even exclude the slaves owners in the Chinese government.

I guess you are too young to remember the Baptist Boycott of Disney in 1997.
Disney began providing insurance benefits to cast w/ same sex partners and allowed unofficial Gay Days .
I think that became more “ official” when Disney recognized the money flow!

 

[Disney Bobby]

I guess you are too young to remember the Baptist Boycott of Disney in 1997.
Disney began providing insurance benefits to cast w/ same sex partners and allowed unofficial Gay Days .
I think that became more “ official” when Disney recognized the money flow!

I remember it. I also remember nobody really paying attention to it and still going to Disney anyway, including myself.

Again, that is very different than Disney trying to tell all parents in the state that they know better about when children as young as 5 should learn about certain topics. There is an age where that become appropriate. Parent's should decide that age for their own children.

Not Chapek. Or Disney. Or anybody else other than the parents. Chapek handled the entire situation very poorly.

 

[k5xs]

No, you can't help me. Disney as a business has ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS trying to get into the sex education of elementary school students. Nobody at Disney was elected to decide these things for parents. And "chastise them like you want" is an absolute LIE. I never said any such thing, nor would I ever condone that. Absurdly dishonest. But Disney absolutely has changed. None of this stupidity was even on the radar 10 years ago. Nobody is "canceling" anybody. Parents and parents alone should have the say in when their kids are exposed to these topics. You don't get a say in it. I don't get a say in it. And Disney certainly doesn't get a say it in.

But you are right about one thing. The hypocrites at Disney aren't in the business of excluding people. They don't even exclude the slaves owners in the Chinese government.

Unless I am mistaken, wasn't Disney's position exactly that the state had no business saying when (or not) children were to be allowed to be exposed to those topics? Wasn't the State of Florida through this legislation trying to dictate to local school boards and parents what can and can't be taught and when?

It strikes me as interesting that the majority party in Florida supports vociferously "local rule," and "local determination" until it comes to LGBTQ+ rights, in which case it is happy to impose state will on school boards, on educators, and on parents. Why can't parents decide what's acceptable to be taught in their local schools through local school boards? Why does the state need to dictate to parents?

It seems to me the state's actions were a violation of your principle of "Parents and parents alone should have the say in when their kids are exposed to these topics. You don't get a say in it. I don't get a say in it. And Disney certainly doesn't get a say it in."

As for Disney, they have always been progressive in the area of LGBTQ+ rights. And many of us admire them for it. And I think you are mistaken in saying "But Disney absolutely has changed. None of this stupidity was even on the radar 10 years ago." ABC — which is owned by Disney — has appropriately pushed LGBTQ+ profiles with TV shows like "Modern Family" and "Ellen." "Ellen" had the first gay lead character on TV in 1997, 25 years ago.

 

[Disney Bobby]

It seems to me the state's actions were a violation of your principle of "Parents and parents alone should have the say in when their kids are exposed to these topics. You don't get a say in it. I don't get a say in it. And Disney certainly doesn't get a say it in."

Nope. The state's action did no such thing. Parents can discuss these topics with their kids as soon as they are born if they want.

 

[Disney Bobby]

Unless I am mistaken, wasn't Disney's position exactly that the state had no business saying when (or not) children were to be allowed to be exposed to those topics? Wasn't the State of Florida through this legislation trying to dictate to local school boards and parents what can and can't be taught and when?

No, Disney's position that it was "dedicated to standing up for the rights and safety" of the LGBT+ in the "Disney family" and "community".

Sorry, nobody, including Disney or any community, has a "right" to the sexual education other people's very young children for "safety". Nothing in that bill violated anybody's rights or made anybody less safe.

 

[Jonfw2]

Hey folks? Stop.