I need some advice, serious problem (update 05/05/09)

[calypso*a*go-go]

I've disagreed with just about everyone here at one time or another, and if I can't take someone having a different opinion, I probably shouldn't be here.

And just another reason why so many of us are glad to have you here!!!

 

[kimberh]

Nope, this couldn't be farther from the truth. I keep getting strung along by this owner. I've done everything in my power to get this resolved. Everything. The fact is that the owner wouldn't try and reschedule after I gave him many different dates to try, ignored multiple emails and calls, responsed with a voicemail promising a refund after I sent a certified letter and I'm still waiting on said refund. This is NOTHING I haven't "come together" on with this owner. Nothing.

It's been so long since I have read all of this Thread, this may have been discussed, but just in case it hasn't...

I certainly don't know how far you live from the DVC owner. Is there a possibility that you can file a claim in Small Claims Court? That will get the Sherriff involved. It sounds to me as if you are spinning your wheels. We have our Attorney, sometimes he will write a Letter of Demand, he will charge us $100.00. We own our own Business. When we have a customer that will not pay (and this is rare) we file a claim with the Magistrate. You will have to make an appearance in court, on the court date. It has to be filed in the County and State, the person lives in.

I don't know how much money you are taking about... you are going to have to put a dollar amount on your collection fees. Sometimes, it is just not worth the collection, most of the times it is. I feel sure with all the PM's, someone has discussed this with you. I just wanted to throw this out, in case it wasn't.

When I rent, it is without refund. I will do everything I can, to get another reservation for the renter. Sometimes there are point issues that cannot be worked around. That is where the word, Reasonable comes in.The word Reasonable is not in my contracts, but I am a reasonable person. I realize that life happens.

 

[Dean]

Nope, this couldn't be farther from the truth. I keep getting strung along by this owner. I've done everything in my power to get this resolved. Everything. The fact is that the owner wouldn't try and reschedule after I gave him many different dates to try, ignored multiple emails and calls, responsed with a voicemail promising a refund after I sent a certified letter and I'm still waiting on said refund. This is NOTHING I haven't "come together" on with this owner. Nothing.

First, did the owner not secure the agreed upon reservation and did you not cancel that reservation? After that my impression also was the owner gave you a travel by date and you gave a fairly limited list of options, if that impression was wrong, I apologize. You'll have to forgive me but I'm a two sides or more type of guy and we only have your representation which is certainly compelling but it's still only one side. I'm wondering what DVC said when you gave them the name and info?

 

[JimMIA]

First, did the owner not secure the agreed upon reservation and did you not cancel that reservation? After that my impression also was the owner gave you a travel by date and you gave a fairly limited list of options, if that impression was wrong, I apologize.

Early in the thread (around page 2-3), you and I were discussing the contract, and I think we agreed that OP was entitled to a full refund according to the contract.

I don't want to put words in OP's mouth, but I think she had 9-10 months in which to reschedule because the owner was early in his UY. She gave his some near-term dates for rescheduling, but then he went unreachable. That unresponsiveness, I believe, is what prompted this thread in the first place.

With all the difficulties she was having, she asked for a refund...which he agreed to. However, he has not yet paid her.

You'll have to forgive me but I'm a two sides or more type of guy and we only have your representation which is certainly compelling but it's still only one side.

I'm a two-sides guy as well. However, a combination of my reading of the contract, OP's explanation of the events, and negative info in the public records which indicate that he may not even be able to make reservations, leads me to believe he owes her a refund.

Whether he can pay a refund is another matter.

I'm wondering what DVC said when you gave them the name and info?

Me too. I would like to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation! It would be interesting (especially to those of you who do some renting) to know what they said specifically. OP said they were "interested," but I'd sure like to know how interested and whether they offered to help her in any way, or indicated what action, if any, they might take.

 

[Dean]

Early in the thread (around page 2-3), you and I were discussing the contract, and I think we agreed that OP was entitled to a full refund according to the contract.

As I noted the info is compelling but I can certain envision specifics that would totally change my feelings and position.

 

[Lovemy3babes]

First, did the owner not secure the agreed upon reservation and did you not cancel that reservation? After that my impression also was the owner gave you a travel by date and you gave a fairly limited list of options, if that impression was wrong, I apologize. You'll have to forgive me but I'm a two sides or more type of guy and we only have your representation which is certainly compelling but it's still only one side. I'm wondering what DVC said when you gave them the name and info?

Sure, I'll explain again. I originally asked the owner to please cancel my vacation. I let him know that either rescheduling or a refund at that time was acceptable. He was more than willing to help me out at that time he said. Time passes, no response to either refund or reschedule. After a few months, in October, I get a limited response that mentions rescheduling. He gave me a date of 9/30/08 and said it would have to be in there. So, I pick through all of the value/regular seasons (so the points would match up) and give him different weeks that might work that were spread throughout the year. That was when he pretty much just stopped responding. Ever. No emails, no phone call responses. The next time I hear from him is the voicemail left in January. So an email in October and then fast forward to January when I receive the voicemail on my phone letting me know that I will be receiving a refund. DVC didn't say much. They told me it was against the rules to "sell or rent" your points. They got a manager on the phone and she said she was very disappointed and would take down all the info, which she did. (Real name, dates of original reservation, resort, his contact info, etc.) They told me there was nothing they could refund me for as much as she would like to. She was very sympathetic and kind but in a bind as I understood. I didn't expect anything at all from them. She said she would pass it along to the appropriate department. That's it. I gave the owner the link to this thread twice so you could perhaps get the second side. I guess he'd rather not post here.

 

[Dean]

Sure, I'll explain again. I originally asked the owner to please cancel my vacation. I let him know that either rescheduling or a refund at that time was acceptable. He was more than willing to help me out at that time he said. Time passes, no response to either refund or reschedule. After a few months, in October, I get a limited response that mentions rescheduling. He gave me a date of 9/30/08 and said it would have to be in there. So, I pick through all of the value/regular seasons (so the points would match up) and give him different weeks that might work that were spread throughout the year. That was when he pretty much just stopped responding. Ever. No emails, no phone call responses. The next time I hear from him is the voicemail left in January. So an email in October and then fast forward to January when I receive the voicemail on my phone letting me know that I will be receiving a refund. DVC didn't say much. They told me it was against the rules to "sell or rent" your points. They got a manager on the phone and she said she was very disappointed and would take down all the info, which she did. (Real name, dates of original reservation, resort, his contact info, etc.) They told me there was nothing they could refund me for as much as she would like to. She was very sympathetic and kind but in a bind as I understood. I didn't expect anything at all from them. She said she would pass it along to the appropriate department. That's it. I gave the owner the link to this thread twice so you could perhaps get the second side. I guess he'd rather not post here.

Thanks, that explains a little more. DVC gave you wrong info as renting is not against the rules but that's another thread. Please keep us updated if there are other developments.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Interesting that more and more people are being told by MS that "renting can not be done", when it is clearly allowed in the POS.

 

[JimMIA]

Interesting that more and more people are being told by MS that "renting can not be done", when it is clearly allowed in the POS.

Yeah. There is such a pattern of this that it seems like they are intentionally trying to mislead members. Whenever they say this to one of us, we should call them on it. They're just plain wrong. The POS clearly permits renting.

I don't rent my points, but I wouldn't want to give up that option if something came up in the future. I think what they're doing is borderline sleazy.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Yeah. There is such a pattern of this that it seems like they are intentionally trying to mislead members. Whenever they say this to one of us, we should call them on it. They're just plain wrong. The POS clearly permits renting.

I don't rent my points, but I wouldn't want to give up that option if something came up in the future. I think what they're doing is borderline sleazy.

Exactly. I've never rented either, but at my age, I'm sure there will be a time or two in the next 10-20 years where that is going to be necessary. If they totally did away with renting, it would put them in a negative with other timeshares, because I don't know of any timeshare that doesn't allow their owners to rent. Now, it clearly IS illegal to use it for a commercial gain, and certainly some do that, but let's just hope those folks don't make it impossible for the rest of us to never rent.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

I'm not sure I understand why anyone has a problem with Jim's thumbs up or thumb's down on known bad owner's.

I am curious why someone believes that in the renter has less risk than an owner in a rental transaction. The renter pays in full 90 days prior to the vacation but even with a copy of the confirmation letter there is always the possiblity that it can cancelled after that time without notification by WDW. I have to trust that when I show up in two weeks with my letter there will be a room.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I'm not sure I understand why anyone has a problem with Jim's thumbs up or thumb's down on known bad owner's.

I am curious why someone believes that in the renter has less risk than an owner in a rental transaction. The renter pays in full 90 days prior to the vacation but even with a copy of the confirmation letter there is always the possiblity that it can cancelled after that time without notification by WDW. I have to trust that when I show up in two weeks with my letter there will be a room.

The owner has to live with the fact that the renter may damage the villa or even check out late. And then the owner could be socked with extra charges, a lien put on their membership until it is all paid, points deducted from their account. You can choose not to trust the member and back out of the deal before you send any money. Jim's a good guy and I don't want anything to happen to him.

I'm just concerned that Jim will have problems from a non-member who has a run in with another member and blame Jim if that deal goes sour. Or the "known member" files a suit against Jim for defamation of character or any other reason they want if and when they clean up their act.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

The owner has to live with the fact that the renter may damage the villa or even check out late. And then the owner could be socked with extra charges, a lien put on their membership until it is all paid, points deducted from their account. You can choose not to trust the member and back out of the deal before you send any money. Jim's a good guy and I don't want anything to happen to him.

I thought DVC took a credit card during my last trip and held that for those reason's. I hope they did because we tried to add extra mousekeeping and I thought those went on my credit card.

 

[Deb & Bill]

You may have missed the posts a while back where a member got socked with a charge and a lien because the credit card the BIL left wasn't working.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm just concerned that Jim will have problems from a non-member who has a run in with another member and blame Jim if that deal goes sour. Or the "known member" files a suit against Jim for defamation of character or any other reason they want if and when they clean up their act.

Thanks for your concern, Deb, but I'm not worried. First of all, the type of information I would be giving is not "defamatory" in any way. And if someone tried to portray it as defamatory, truth is a pretty good defense.

Second, the type of people who would get a negative comment from me are not people who want to have their character or ethics evaluated by a court of law.

 

[Dean]

I am curious why someone believes that in the renter has less risk than an owner in a rental transaction. The renter pays in full 90 days prior to the vacation but even with a copy of the confirmation letter there is always the possiblity that it can cancelled after that time without notification by WDW. I have to trust that when I show up in two weeks with my letter there will be a room.

I think most of us would agree that an owner generally has less risk than someone renting and that an owner has more control of that risk than does the one renting. But the rentee also has more to gain in terms of a discounted room than does the owner who is getting a marginal return even at $12-15 per point. One can rent with almost no risk if they position themselves correctly. IMO, the risk of damage or other fees added are exceedingly small enough as to not factor into the equation.

You may have missed the posts a while back where a member got socked with a charge and a lien because the credit card the BIL left wasn't working.

But that got worked out as it should have.

 

[Lovemy3babes]

Hi everyone! Long, long time and no post. I wanted to update you all on this situation. The DVC owner said I would be getting a refund since the contract specified one but of course, he has never come through. I did do a few things. DVC, the IRS (to report the money I sent him) and the NH Attorney General's office were all made aware of the situation. DVC obviously won't communicate with me but through research, I believe his timeshares were all foreclosed on. And the Attorney General's office did offer to help me with this and see if they could help find some middle ground but this man never returned any of their calls or letters. So, I'm just pretty much out of luck for the $1000+. I think he's not a good person and is a liar. I'm not sure of Disboards rules but if I am allowed to disclose his name privately to anyone here to avoid any other future issues, I'll do so if they say it's okay. Hopefully karma finds him soon. Our family of 6 could sure use the money in these really trying times in our economy. Oh well. You live and learn I guess, right?

 

[gkrykewy]

Wow, sorry to hear that. I share your hope about karma.

 

[christa112]

A bad ending to a bad situation. Sorry to hear that. I truly believe what goes around comes around and eventually he will get his.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Kelli -- I'm so sorry he never came through for you.