Grand Floridian shouldn’t allow non hotel guests

[eandt]

The deluxe guests yearn to see color and creativity outside of their barely themed, beige/white hotel rooms.

Yes I have yearned lol

 

[tjkraz]

I mean if you really want to get into the weeds on cost....Disney was getting significant tax breaks from the state of Florida. So locals are losing on a ton of tax money that could be used to create better public services and spaces. (Some of this may change under the new rules, since Florida stripped the Reedy Creek special tax district).

Now we're veering off topic but pretty much every word of this is wrong. Disney has always paid state and county taxes as the same millages as every other taxpayer, while also being 100% responsible for running the district (roads, emergency services, utilities, trash disposal, etc.) Also the district was never abolished because after the initial rhetoric, it became clear that dismantling the district would cost taxpayers more than it would save.

The primary power afforded by the "special tax district" was the ability to secure tax exempt bonds for infrastructure projects like roads and parking garages. Most of those projects were clearly appropriate. Could probably debate over something like a Disney Springs parking garage.

Historically the district gave disney a degree of autonomy that most businesses lack. But they were also the ones writing the checks for those decisions, while paying the appropriate amounts to fund schools, libraries and other taxpayer-funded entities. The idea that Disney used the district as a massive tax dodge is just wrong.

 

[peder]

This isn't an issue of elitism, it's just a question of scale. We have hit a breaking point where non-Grand Flo guests are causing crowding of finite spaces. I don't think anyone cares if the occasional visitor strolls through, but that's not what folks here are discussing.

 

[DisnEElove]

The hordes of visitors at the GF are more than likely spending a fortune at DW in many ways….food, drinks, park tickets, merchandise, parking fees, other Disney resorts and Gingerbread shingles. lol. It makes no sense for Disney to tick off the masses.

I mean, there are people who are paying for their rooms at GF and not even spending a dime there. Stopping at Publix for groceries, using their kitchenettes to prepare food, etc….

Putting restrictions on who can use the transportation system, who can book an ADR, who can visit Deluxe resorts is a slippery slope I hope they never go down.
Maybe you’ll get your wish and then they’ll need to impose something like a minimum $200 per room/per night fee that you get back if you spend that amount at the GF to make up for lost revenue. So be careful what you wish for.

Done. I always budget out at least $350/day for incidentals anyway. We never use the kitchen/kitchenette. There are others that will have no issue with a min spend, especially if it means we can access the amenities in a reasonable time. Paying for a few CMs manage a resort priority line to the transpo is a small price to pay for peace of mind. Disney isn't new to priority offerings either. Staying on property alone affords you early access to ADRs, Early park entry. Deluxe guests have extended evening park hours. DVC has direct membership benefits, the list goes on. It won't be out of the ordinary for a priority lane to crop up for Resort guests because Disney is constantly adding new ways to prioritize guests who'll pay for it.

 

[tjkraz]

TLDR the whole discussion, but some thoughts;
1) Could be wrong, but I don't think you can access many parts of AKV unless you are staying there (or dining there). Seems like we stopped in to eat at the QS there one trip thinking we could check out the rest of the resort and we could not (QS there isn't great either in case you are wondering).

Most Disney resorts disallow parking by non-guests. But even at AKL, you can hop on a Disney bus and visit easily. It's pretty much the same here, except the monorail makes MK area resorts far more accessible since any guest arriving or departing the theme park can stop in.

2) GFV may have nice Christmas decorations, but isn't Wilderness Lodge every bit as nice? Is it the same problem there?

Probably not. Because you have to take a bus or boat to get there.

3) You are allowed to wander through the Poly or the Contemporary same as the Grand Floridian, so it's not really a monorail access thing - or is it?

This is all subjective so hard to answer. But the gingerbread house is a unique added draw during the holidays.

4) at DL/DCA you can walk through VGC any time you want and I've never seen it be a problem there. In fact, I highly recommend doing that.

Agree!

 

[StarCruzer]

Now we're veering off topic but pretty much every word of this is wrong. Disney has always paid state and county taxes as the same millages as every other taxpayer, while also being 100% responsible for running the district (roads, emergency services, utilities, trash disposal, etc.) Also the district was never abolished because after the initial rhetoric, it became clear that dismantling the district would cost taxpayers more than it would save.

Ehhhhh I don't disagree that many of Disney tax benefits ended up not being fully realized, but they have had plenty of sweetheart deals. The most recent one fell through but it would have given them a $500M+ tax credit over a 20 year span.

As someone with experience in corporate construction/tax deals (UPS corporate office) , it is VERY common (almost standard, at this point) for big companies to get significant tax credits from the state for building residential, or constructing offices/facilities which generate income for the state or create/preserve jobs. The company used the threat of moving the office out of state to get some really good tax credits, even though there was zero intention of following through.

You can definitely argue that the sales tax generated by visitors to Disney, mathematically, could equal or exceed those tax credits.

But again, really getting into the weeds on that one

 

[AstroBlasters]

In California, they were having issues with non-Disney resort guests, Disneyland hotel guests, and Pixar Place guests using the exclusive Grand Cal entrance to DCA.

So, what did they do? They gated the walkways and added security to tell people they could only go into the Grand Cal lobby from the main entrance if they are guests at GC. They also opened a separate pathway right by the DVC wing at Grand Cal with another security gate to DCA exclusive to anyone staying at any of the 3 Disney resorts.

Now, people can still overrun the Grand Cal lobby by exiting DCA into the resort or by entering through Downtown Disney…. but they at least added options to alleviate some of the congestion.

So YES, Disney told paying guests of the Disneyland Hotel and Pixar Place that they could NOT just waltz over into the main Grand Cal entrance to use it as a cut through to DCA in the mornings. That is a benefit for paying guests of GC and VGC.

 

[eandt]

Ehhhhh I don't disagree that many of Disney tax benefits ended up not being fully realized, but they have had plenty of sweetheart deals. The most recent one fell through but it would have given them a $500M+ taxes credit over a 20 year span.

As someone with experience in corpus construction/tax deals, it is VERY common (almost standard, at this point) for big companies to get significant tax credits from the state for building residential, or constructing offices/facilities which generate income for the state or create/preserve jobs.

You can definitely argue that the sales tax generated by visitors to Disney, mathematically, could equal or exceed those tax credits.

But again, really getting into the weeds on that one

Wait …what does that have to do with freeloading non GF’ers infiltrating the inner sanctum to get a glimpse of some confectioneries?

 

[Sandisw]

No it’s not it’s private property

Private property that has been opened to the public by the owner of that property.

You may want Disney to restrict access during the holidays and that is fine, and you should share that with but also be aware many guests don’t want to see that happen.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Let me ask a very simple question

When you book a hotel room are you

1) paying exclusively for the hotel room
2) paying for the common areas in addition to the room

Number 1 unless stated xyz is only available to hotel guests.

Who books a hotel thinking they and only they get access to the entire hotel by means of paying for a room? That is like the very definition of entitlement which I know you've not liked people pointing out.

 

[StarCruzer]

Wait …what does that have to do with freeloading non GF’ers infiltrating the inner sanctum to get a glimpse of some confectioneries?

It was a nod towards the idea that Florida locals, in an indirect way, pay for Disney amenities through potential lost tax revenue. State taxes usually go directly towards improving public services for residents (roads, schools, etc.)

Not the most compelling argument for most

 

[hockeydad21]

Exactly … unless you are willing to stay in the friendly confines of the resort you are currently paying for this is a hypocritical non issue …. If you won’t show me your gingerbread house I’m not showing you my savanna!!!

But is your savanna being overrun with wild animals…sorry, I mean non deluxe paying guests?

 

[AstroBlasters]

It was a nod towards the idea that Florida locals, in an indirect way, pay for Disney amenities through potential lost tax revenue. State taxes usually go directly towards improving public services for residents (roads, schools, etc.)

Not the most compelling argument for most

Disney is subsided by taxpayers now?

 

[Sandisw]

I have yet to see a single compelling argument why my enjoyment and use of gf should be impaired because the hordes of non paid guests want to visit the resort

Some have argued divine right because this has been the way

Some have said let’s add more busses or boats. Yes that solves part of the transit problem but only part

Some have said it’s public property, which it isn’t. The lobby and grounds are private

Some have said we can’t restrict access to the monorail or boats. I’m not sure that’s accurate but let’s pretend it is. Grant access to all modes of transit but don’t allow non paid guests off the boat or monorail. Stepping off either places the punter onto private and by default controllable property

But a legit why Disney should harm paying guests experience in my view hasn’t been presented

Quite frankly I don’t care at all about diminishing the holiday enjoyment of non paid guests if my enjoyment as a paid guest has been negatively impacted. My enjoyment should be Disney’s priority as a paid guest

Simplest answer is because the GF at Xmas time is open to the public and you know that before you stay.

Disney owns it and they believe that having the GF a destination for the holidays is something they want to offer guests, both those staying there, staying elsewhere on property, and those visiting or living in thr areas.

You don’t have to like that decision, but it is the reality of it. When anyone books a hotel, you have to accept what it offers and what it does not, and not all of those things will be positive.

If you book a convention hotel during a time when they are holding a comic book convention, you are going to have to deal with that.

It’s the same with GF…November and December are busy….its not a time to stay there if you are bothered by the impact it could have on your trip.

Being a DVC owner doesn’t supersede that….again, I think many of us understand that some aren’t fans of what Disney turns GF into during the holidays…but the choice still remains with the guest as to whether to accept it or not when choosing where to stay.

 

[hockeydad21]

Who among us ‘Disney Deluxers’ hasn’t longed for and actually made the pilgrimage to AS to see the giant big wheel, Lego pieces and soccer balls? You know you all have!

Ew.

 

[Genie+]

I’m not so sure a WDW vacation, resort only or otherwise, was ever sold as or meant to be a peaceful tranquil experience … there are places you can find that if you try (I’m not telling my secrets) but the hotel lobbies, pools, bars, and restaurants, gingerbread abodes or not, are not among them …

I didn’t mention tranquil. I just meant being able to access resort amenities. A large part of the value to us is the logistics of being able to bop into parks while also having time to enjoy the resort. If it’s taking me longer to get to MK/EP and I have to plan around hours to avoid various amenities, that decreases the overall value in relation to our goals.

It’s about the overall value and how being inundated affects that. Right now I’d never pay VGF cash rates in December and wouldn’t even use my points. I’d much rather spend the extra 4 points a night to visit better weeks in Oct/Nov because even at +20% it’s a much better value proposition in my eyes. The VGF resort experience suffers too much in December.

 

[eandt]

But is your savanna being overrun with wild animals…sorry, I mean non deluxe paying guests?

At times yes but I don’t mind so much because I don’t really go to WDW to avoid crowds

 

[Chuck S]

In California, they were having issues with non-Disney resort guests, Disneyland hotel guests, and Pixar Place guests using the exclusive Grand Cal entrance to DCA.

So, what did they do? They gated the walkways and added security to tell people they could only go into the Grand Cal lobby from the main entrance if they are guests at GC. They also opened a separate pathway right by the DVC wing at Grand Cal with another security gate to DCA exclusive to anyone staying at any of the 3 Disney resorts.

Now, people can still overrun the Grand Cal lobby by exiting DCA into the resort or by entering through Downtown Disney…. but they at least added options to alleviate some of the congestion.

So YES, Disney told paying guests of the Disneyland Hotel and Pixar Place that they could NOT just waltz over into the main Grand Cal entrance to use it as a cut through to DCA in the mornings. That is a benefit for paying guests of GC and VGC.

Califonria laws are likely quite different from Florida laws on public accommodation.

 

[eandt]

I didn’t mention tranquil. I just meant being able to access resort amenities. A large part of the value to us is the logistics of being able to bop into parks while also having time to enjoy the resort. If it’s taking me longer to get to MK/EP and I have to plan around hours to avoid various amenities, that decreases the overall value in relation to our goals.

It’s about the overall value and how being inundated affects that. Right now I’d never pay VGF cash rates in December and wouldn’t even use my points. I’d much rather spend the extra 4 points a night to visit better weeks in Oct/Nov because even at +20% it’s a much better value proposition in my eyes. The VGF resort experience suffers too much in December.

As someone said before then the only answer is to limit everyone to their paid for resort but I have a suspicion that most if not all those complaining have ‘trespassed’ on other folks paid for resorts to grab a drink or a meal or a glimpse of a giraffe or yak …

 

[BeachClub2014]

Califonria laws are likely quite different from Florida laws on public accommodation.

So you're suggesting that Florida law requires Disney to allow the public access to the GF to see a gingerbread house?