Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[lockedoutlogic]

I think most of us see it as to protect the people.
.

How often do people do anything BUT protect themselves?

It's a little boy...I get the emotion. Enlightened humans should let the emotions subside and the reasoning to emerge though...before making decisions. Emotional decisions are often mistakes.

 

[Liljo22]

Some of this is an overreaction. This is a tragedy but this is rare. Alligators are portrayed as vicious animals that hunt down and kill humans when they really are not. People watch Swamp People and believe these animals are man killers. Alligators mostly are afraid of humans and will retreat once a human comes close. There are attacks but most are people swimming that get too close and the gator feels threatened. I have ridden jet skis in the everglades and have passed by boats towing skiers and tubes. I never really worried about it because gators do not like the sound of the motors and will hide. Gators are more likely to attack small mammals like dogs and probably mistaked the 2 year old as one.

Is Disney at fault? Yes they have some responsibility here. The signs should have stated that alligators were possible in the lake. They should not fence off the lake or dig up the beaches or what ever other extreme measures some are suggesting on here. They will not publicly take blame here but behind the scenes they will make amends to the family.

 

[dmychuds]

Typical responses in here. No mention of how we could help the family get through this time and how we could show our support to them. Rather spouting empty words about thoughts and prayers while we discuss who should be blamed, who will be sued, and of course what should be killed to make us feel safer. Not be safer, just feel safer.

 

[LSLS]

I just saw a report that there have been 26 alligator related deaths in the last 26 years and no major incidents on disney property. This isn't a common occurrence.

I believe there have been 5 total since 2007. Compare that to the 53 a year from bees, 6 a year from spiders. Heck, Gator deaths in the US is almost on par with Elephant deaths. People don't need to run in fear of constant attacks by gators.

 

[chartle]

I have always been slightly confused why they would design so many open beach areas with water you cannot swim in. Or walk in, whatever. It was a bad idea to begin with. I'm sure some imagineers could have come up with an immersive design that didn't include a real beach setting not intended for actual beach activity use. I was at CBR in April and you can see the beach areas with hammocks near the water, but it never appealed to me to relax in that setting. The water doesn't look clean even. Bad idea from the get-go.

I believe initially you could swim in the water in the 70's. I also remember a Mike Douglas Show many years ago where they installed a wave machine opposite the Poly and it was thought that you could maybe surf but it didn't work out. So then it was going to just be a way to simulate being on the ocean with waves lapping on the beach but I think it caused too much beach erosion. You can still see the wave making structure in the lake.

But anyway why you can't swim in the lakes is because of the brain eating amoeba that's now in Florida lakes.

And yes they swim for the triathlon but its when the the amoeba is not as active and you need a very specific water temp for it to thrive.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Where do you see this? Mighty wide brush you are painting with. What an idiotic thing to post.

I believe he was speaking metaphorically...perhaps too much so...of a very real quality that needs to change.

If you fence the lakes off...will that solve this?

Likely no...just as deer fences on rural highways failed until they started incorporating crossing points...

Just as they say in Jurassic park: "life...finds a way"

Battling nature usually results in catastrophic mistakes...man looking stupid...or often...both.

 

[romitaz]

So you do agree that they should have had signage?

You are Disney and spot several alligators in that lagoon on a daily basis.

You decide that a no swimming sign is sufficient of the real danger in and around that lagoon?

Surely you do not.

You only make that call when thinking about your resort appearance and price point, not when thinking about safety.

Has no one watched Jaws? Did no one pay attention? I'll repeat, greed will get you every time.

I grew up on a lake in central Florida. When people visited for the first time, we would always let them know that there are alligators in the lake, and to just be aware.

Am I more courteous than a resort built on customer service? Or was I not trying to sell anything?

Wow, you are basing your fallacies on a FICTIONAL MOVIE?! I'm sorry that Disney's Predictovision computer is down right now so that they could have prevented this. They regularly patrol every inch of the property for dangers.

 

[rteetz]

From today's Orlando Sentinel:

"One employee at the resort who did not want to be identified said in an email "There is such a problem on property with guests feeding the alligators thinking it's cool." There are two at the Buena Vista Palace that people regularly feed from balconies, he said".

 

[LSLS]

Not entirely true...it's based on size. They do relocate animals of a certain size.

I bet that policy is "on the table"
Right about now.

Not according to the Florida Fish and Wildlife.

Why aren’t small alligators removed?
Alligators less than 4 feet in length are not large enough to be dangerous unless handled. They eat fish, frogs and other small animals. Typically, they are not large enough to be a threat even to small pets. The mere presence of a small alligator is not cause for concern. Occasionally, alligators less than 4 feet in length are legitimate problems and must be addressed. If an alligator less than four feet in length is a concern, call the Nuisance Alligator Hotline at 866-FWC-GATOR (866-392-4286).

Why does the FWC not relocate nuisance alligators in Florida?
Florida has a healthy and stable alligator population. We have about 1.3 million alligators in Florida. Alligators live in all 67 counties, and they inhabit all wild areas of Florida that can support them. The removal of nuisance alligators does not have a significant impact on our state's alligator population.

Relocated alligators often try to return to their capture site. They can create problems for people or other alligators along the way. If an alligator successfully returns, capturing it again would be necessary and likely more difficult the second time.

To avoid creating a problem at the release site, nuisance alligators would need to be relocated to remote areas where they would not encounter people. These remote areas already have healthy alligator populations, and the ones that already live there have established social structures. The introduction of a new alligator to these areas would likely cause fighting, possibly resulting in the death of a resident alligator or the introduced alligator.

 

[mcjaco]

Just so everyone is on the same page, Florida is a Pure Comparative Negligence State:

Code Section

The laws governing negligence in Florida are found in Chapter 768 of the Florida Statutes.

Damages

Damages are compensation provided to a plaintiff (person filing a lawsuit) for harm or injury suffered as a result of another’s negligence. The amount of damages a plaintiff may recover depends on the circumstances of the case, including the negligence committed, the injury suffered, and the identity of the defendant.

Comparative Negligence

If a plaintiff is partially at fault for an accident in which he or she suffers harm, that person’s recovery of damages will be reduced. Any contributory fault chargeable to the plaintiff diminishes economic and not-economic damages proportionate to the amount of that person’s fault, but it does not completely prevent the plaintiff from recovering damages (section 768.81).

Contribution Among Tortfeasors

When more than one tortfeasor (person who acts negligently) is responsible for causing injury or damage to another, generally all are must pay damages even if a judgment has not been entered against every responsible party. A defendant has a right of contribution from other tortfeasors if he or she has paid more than his or her share of common liability (section 768.31).

Time Limits

There are time limits for filing lawsuits based on negligence, which are called statutes of limitations. These statutes of limitations generally vary depending on the type of negligence alleged in a particular case.

I'm still of the opinion from my days of defending premises liability claims, that this Family would have a hard uphill climb to present Disney as negligent. Partially (only due to the signage), but after that.....tough. Especially in front of a conservative jury of people that live in Florida and are aware of the inherent dangers of waterways and alligators.

So then you have to put a price on the child (which is just an awful experience to go through - trust me), then cut that back by Pure Negligence rules. My best guess through mediation outside of court would be 60 Family/40 Disney, or 70 Family/30 Disney (worst case for the family).

Either way, it's awful for both parties.

 

[Madteaparty001]

Typical responses in here. No mention of how we could help the family get through this time and how we could show our support to them. Rather spouting empty words about thoughts and prayers while we discuss who should be blamed, who will be sued, and of course what should be killed to make us feel safer. Not be safer, just feel safer.

What do you expect people to do on a discussion board? If you think something more should be done, do it yourself. Don't go trolling and pointing fingers spouting how you're a better person.

 

[Metalliman98]

Yeah we should just do nothing and give the family who watched their 2 year old get dragged into the water by an alligator a million or two to shut them up.

There's a happy medium between doing nothing and completely overreacting, which is what many posters here are doing. 1 incident in 40 years of operation, after hundreds of millions of visitors, does not warrant the extreme measures being proposed.

 

[dlavender]

Wow, you are basing your fallacies on a FICTIONAL MOVIE?! I'm sorry that Disney's Predictovision computer is down right now so that they could have prevented this. They regularly patrol every inch of the property for dangers.

Thats what you took from that?

Way to scroll down.

Let me point out the parts you should have paid attention to:

So you do agree that they should have had signage?

You are Disney and spot several alligators in that lagoon on a daily basis.

You decide that a no swimming sign is sufficient of the real danger in and around that lagoon?

Surely you do not.

You only make that call when thinking about your resort appearance and price point, not when thinking about safety.

I grew up on a lake in central Florida. When people visited for the first time, we would always let them know that there are alligators in the lake, and to just be aware.

Am I more courteous than a resort built on customer service? Or was I not trying to sell anything?

Now, try again.....

 

[dmychuds]

What do you expect people to do on a discussion board? If you think something more should be done, do it yourself. Don't go trolling and pointing fingers spouting how you're a better person.

Not once did I "spout" that I was a better person. That's you projecting your thoughts on to me, not my words. But by all means continue the blame game, I didn't realize that's what a discussion board was all about.

 

[cruisingtwins]

There's a happy medium between doing nothing and completely overreacting, which is what many posters here are doing. 1 incident in 40 years of operation, after hundreds of millions of visitors, does not warrant the extreme measures being proposed.

How many 2 year olds need to be killed for Disney to put proper signage that there are alligators in the lake. I don't think putting a rocky shore on the beaches is an overreaction at all.

 

[angelmav]

Typical responses in here. No mention of how we could help the family get through this time and how we could show our support to them. Rather spouting empty words about thoughts and prayers while we discuss who should be blamed, who will be sued, and of course what should be killed to make us feel safer. Not be safer, just feel safer.

Typical responses? And what sort of help do you expect from a forum in the midst of this kind of incident? Empty words? You have a time machine and a magic wand or something? Then use it. And, no, signage, warnings, and a program that removed them from areas like this would not be just symbolic.

This family will have a very difficult time. Not just from losing a little one, but you see Disney pretty much everywhere. Constant reminders. Ugh.

 

[mcjaco]

How many 2 year olds need to be killed for Disney to put proper signage that there are alligators in the lake. I don't think putting a rocky shore on the beaches is an overreaction at all.

In a court of law? There's precedent for prior knowledge of a condition. One incident in 40 years, leans toward Disney's favor. Greatly.

 

[mshanson3121]

Typical responses in here. No mention of how we could help the family get through this time and how we could show our support to them. Rather spouting empty words about thoughts and prayers while we discuss who should be blamed, who will be sued, and of course what should be killed to make us feel safer. Not be safer, just feel safer.

You have NO right to say that. You have no idea how sincere people's words are. And I'll tell you, my words of thoughts and prayers were 1000% sincere. Recognizing someone's legal responsibility in no way diminishes the sincerity of one's mourning. Pretty jerk thing to say.

 

[Metalliman98]

Where do you see this? Mighty wide brush you are painting with. What an idiotic thing to post.

All of those "solutions" were posted on this thread. Is it representative of the population as a whole? Maybe not, but I wouldn't bet against it.

 

[mshanson3121]

I believe there have been 5 total since 2007. Compare that to the 53 a year from bees, 6 a year from spiders. Heck, Gator deaths in the US is almost on par with Elephant deaths. People don't need to run in fear of constant attacks by gators.

Not one person has said they should. The only thing being said is that Disney should be taking precautionary measures. Fences and closing the beaches may be extreme, but the majority of us, are saying that Disney should be using signage and education. Nothing too extreme there.