Electric Cars

[hertamaniac]

I'm also wondering how many local power companies offer off-peak charging rates. I don't think my company (Duke) has that.

Will there really be off-peak rates? With more users charging overnight, I'd expect the duck curve to get flatter right?

 

[greeneyedchick]

My SO got a 2024 Rav 4 hybrid not long ago. After driving a hybrid, I dont think I could ever buy a gas car again. Yes they are more expensive but they are far more superior.

I feel like the government mandating that cars be hyrbids makes much more sense right now than requiring them to all be EVs.

 

[OKW Lover]

Will there really be off-peak rates? With more users charging overnight, I'd expect the duck curve to get flatter right?

That would actually be a good thing for the grid as a whole.

 

[disneyseniors]

We don‘t have enough charging stations here. We too are to go all electric but with all the condos and apartments can’t see it.

Plus the cold weather had line ups waiting because the batteries don’t last in the cold. Saw on the news someone said they don’t run their heat because it drains it. No thanks.

WE live in a very cold climate. If someone had an electric car up here, they would have to charge it all the time, and it would drain the battery twice as fast. A no go for me. I love my car with gas fill up. Those huge batteries in electric cars would fill up the dump pretty quick. I doubt if they are reusable. Just too many negatives about them right now. It is a rare sighting to see one up here.

 

[kdonnel]

WE live in a very cold climate. If someone had an electric car up here, they would have to charge it all the time, and it would drain the battery twice as fast. A no go for me. I love my car with gas fill up. Those huge batteries in electric cars would fill up the dump pretty quick. I doubt if they are reusable. Just too many negatives about them right now. It is a rare sighting to see one up here.

Norway leads the world in EV adoption.

Norway is a very cold country.

Two industries are growing to handle the 20-30 year old EV batteries. One to repurpose the batteries for home battery backup and another to recycle.

An EV battery is engineered to last 20-30 years. Beyond the life of the rest of the car.

 

[kdonnel]

Whoops, can’t seem to delete. Was a double post.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

But not really.

At least in the US the state of DCFC is often painted so poorly when in reality it is actually ok. Outside of the US we are told that Europe is leaps and bounds ahead of the US in charging infrastructure. Perhaps because Tesla was forced to use the same charging standard as all other EV automakers.

That common plug across EV automakers is coming to the US this year. A different plug than Europe but a common plug across almost all EV automakers.

Most EV have built in route planning. In theory you could hop in an EV, enter your destination in the routing app, and go on your merry way.

In reality that only works for Tesla but soon will be the case for virtually all EV.

Why?

Because Tesla built a robust and reliable charging network.

The non Tesla CCS DCFC stations do not have a reputation for reliability. As a result instead of just using the built in route planning I have to use other apps to lookup user experiences at the planned DCFC stops. If the other networks were known to be reliable I would not need the extra step.

Soon, in the next couple months, the Tesla Supercharger network will be open to the majority of EV automakers through an adapter. The competition for charging will force the other charging network operators to match the reliability of Tesla Superchargers.

It will be a win win for all EV.

Tesla owners can already use either the Tesla Superchargers or CCS DCFC with an adapter. In a couple months I will be able to use CCS DCFC or a Tesla Supercharger with an adapter.

Charging infrastructure will only get getter.

I mean, if you want to go to a place like Kingsbirdge, 300 miles away with (last time I checked) no charging points. You'd have to find a charging point along the way and hang around for several hours before going again or pack a petrol generator to recharge your car, which kinda messes up the point of en electric car!

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

We haven't made the switch to EV yet but it's something we're keeping an eye on. I have been WFH for the last 4 years and my wife's commute is only a few miles so it just didn't make sense financially for us yet. If I were pulled back into the office I would definitely be looking at them.

Residential electric charging rates have never gone down from what I've seen. I foresee them only increasing more than history as the grid operators will need to address/expand the infrastructure. I would then predict the users, whether you have a BEV or not, will bear the costs spread amongst the customer base. So now you are essentially married to your single source residential electric provider.

Aren't ICE vehicles married to a single source of power as well? I'm not seeing this as a distinction.

You can generate electricity at home via solar panels or other methods. If you spring for a battery backup, you can even go off grid. There is no option like that with ICE so I see a BEV as less constrained.

 

[kdonnel]

I mean, if you want to go to a place like Kingsbirdge, 300 miles away with (last time I checked) no charging points. You'd have to find a charging point along the way and hang around for several hours before going again or pack a petrol generator to recharge your car, which kinda messes up the point of en electric car!

Sounds like my trips to Panama City Beach FL.

There is no DCFC in the city so this is where the pre planning comes into play that you don't have to do when driving ICE. I stop in Chipley, FL before Panama City Beach and charge enough so that I can get to Panama City Beach, around Panama City Beach, and back to Chipley.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

I think that before electric cars become mainstream, we would need two things:

1. More fast charging points throughout the country
2. Higher capacity batteries, which look like they're just around the corner.

 

[amylevan]

I still don’t see how older towns with all street parking are going to work for EVs. Where are the people who live there supposed to plug in their cars? They don’t have garages or even driveways. They park on narrow streets in front of their homes.
Are we envisioning car charges along the street like parking meters? Who is going to pay to install them and perform upkeep?

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

I still don’t see how older towns with all street parking are going to work for EVs. Where are the people who live there supposed to plug in their cars? They don’t have garages or even driveways. They park on narrow streets in front of their homes.
Are we envisioning car charges along the street like parking meters? Who is going to pay to install them and perform upkeep?

One option is to pop down to your local petrol station and use their chargers - but that means hanging around for hours to fully charge your battery! Not fun :|

 

[kdonnel]

I still don’t see how older towns with all street parking are going to work for EVs. Where are the people who live there supposed to plug in their cars? They don’t have garages or even driveways. They park on narrow streets in front of their homes.
Are we envisioning car charges along the street like parking meters? Who is going to pay to install them and perform upkeep?

Many of those people will be able to charge at work, others will rely on public fast charging.

Curbside charging is being piloted in many cities.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/curbside-level-2-charging-pilot-faq.pdf

There are certainly problems that need to be solved but not all the problems need to be solved before most can switch.

Most EV on the market today have a driving range in the 250 to 300 mile range. The average US driver covers 37 miles a day. That means the average EV can go 5-7 days before needing to be charged for the average US driver.

 

[_19disnA]

Car companies like to site averages but that can be misleading. If you ever take your car out town or on vacation/visit relatives/etc. what matters is the MAXIMUM you will ever drive in one day. How many times and for how long are you willing to stop to recharge when driving long distances? Averages mean nothing then even if you only take 2-3 long trips each year.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

Car companies like to site averages but that can be misleading. If you ever take your car out town or on vacation/visit relatives/etc. what matters is the MAXIMUM you will ever drive in one day. How many times and for how long are you willing to stop to recharge when driving long distances? Averages mean nothing then even if you only take 2-3 long trips each year.

This sounds like people who own trucks because they might have to move a couch once every 5 years.

 

[Communicore1991]

The other issue I have with EVs right now is the range quoted when you purchase your car is not going to be the same range you have on the car 4 years from now when the battery capacity has depleted. On the other hand, an engine may run less fuel efficient than it did when first purchased, but your maximum range is still going to be approximately the same as the day you bought it.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

One other intriguing idea is that petrol stations could stock pre-charged removable batteries which you swap for depleted batteries. No waiting, no need for a national charging hub, pre-built infrastructure. Problem is, you'd have to unroll such a system pretty universally.

 

[kdonnel]

The other issue I have with EVs right now is the range quoted when you purchase your car is not going to be the same range you have on the car 4 years from now when the battery capacity has depleted. On the other hand, an engine may run less fuel efficient than it did when first purchased, but your maximum range is still going to be approximately the same as the day you bought it.

I think a problem is that most people's experiences with battery powered devices are bad.

Cell phone batteries that only last a couple years, battery powered drills that suck after a couple years, outdoor lawn equipment that only last a couple years, etc.

EV batteries do not perform the same as those devices because the battery is actually managed by the car and auto manufacturer.

For example my car has a 98 kWh battery but I only get access to 91 kWh. That 8% buffer means the battery is never charged to 100% even if I charge to a displayed 100% and it is never at 0% even if I drive until the car stops. Charging a battery to 100% and leaving it there or discharging it to 0% and leaving it there will degrade the battery. I can't do that with my car.

This means it is very difficult for my actions to degrade the battery. I only have to wonder about time which I have no control over.

My car is 24 months old and my battery is 25 months old. The reported health is 98.5%. That is a potential reduction of 4-5 miles range. Degradation tends to be most severe in the first year and then level off.

In your 4 year old battery example I should expect to see a range reduction of 7-10 miles.



https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/how-long-do-ev-batteries-last

 

[_19disnA]

One other intriguing idea is that petrol stations could stock pre-charged removable batteries which you swap for depleted batteries.

EV batteries would need to be standardized for that to be practical and the design of the vehicle would have to take into the account the easy swap-out of the entire battery. None today is designed for that. I believe every company has their own unique designs based on where the battery cells fit. I would also wonder how you prevent battery theft if they are so easy to remove since clearly they are the most expensive component on an EV. I have no idea how long a battery sitting idle on a shelf holds their full charge. Gas stations would also need to have a good bit of battery turnover in order to put out the $10,000-$20,000 each battery costs and make it economically viable.

 

[kdonnel]

One other intriguing idea is that petrol stations could stock pre-charged removable batteries which you swap for depleted batteries. No waiting, no need for a national charging hub, pre-built infrastructure. Problem is, you'd have to unroll such a system pretty universally.