Electric Cars

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

Over here, cars are aggressively becoming electric only, with a total ban on petrol and diesel cars for sale coming just around the corner. We've had a few electric cars and so far, they're great! But you DO really need a home charging kit, which is far from practical when you don't have a drive to park on. Thoughts?

 

[longboard55]

I see electric cars in the first inning. A long way to go, but I would assume in the future you would recharge as part of you weekly routine such as when out shopping.

 

[NAB]

We don‘t have enough charging stations here. We too are to go all electric but with all the condos and apartments can’t see it.

Plus the cold weather had line ups waiting because the batteries don’t last in the cold. Saw on the news someone said they don’t run their heat because it drains it. No thanks.

 

[_19disnA]

Lots of other threads on EV's. The same basic discussions each time. Some feel they are wonderful/amazing while others point out the long recharge time, range issues and hot/cold weather concerns. The USA doesn't currently have national charging standards so you also need to find a charging station that is compatible with your EV. Issues also arise if the station is out of order, already in use or perhaps has been damaged by someone trying to steal the copper wiring.

I think we are a LONG way off from having EV's replace ALL gas vehicles (if ever).

(I assume the OP is not from USA, no one here calls it petrol, so perhaps in Europe.)

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

There are other sources of fuel for cars. Hybrids are still interesting to me. Ethanol power is cool. And of course, we have Hydrogen fuel cells.

 

[fla4fun]

I have a hybrid (Prius v) and I like it. It is the best of both worlds right now.

I feel there needs to be more investment in infrastructure, as well as batteries that can operate normally under extreme temperatures and charge more quickly, before we can rely completely on EVs. If they push for the cars before the support is there for distance and charging, people are going to get frustrated. I live where there is no public transport available and my daily commute was more than sixty miles. There were no charging options near the office. That is why I went with hybrid over EV.

I like the idea of EV, but as a country (USA) we aren’t ready to go entirely electric yet.

 

[Tatebeck]

We have teslas and love them, but you definitely need a home charging solution. I can't imagine having to use superchargers or public chargers all the time. Part of the benefit of going electric is never having to go to a gas station again in the heat, rain, snow, etc. Having to sit at a charger reduces that benefit heavily

 

[kdonnel]

My wife and I have been all electric for 2 years now.

We drive about 20,000 miles a year between the two cars for a total cost of about $530 a year which is 1/3 the cost of driving gas.

We have taken 3-4 road trips each year and have only had minor issues with public charging.

If you have home charging, can be just 120v it does not have to be 240v, driving electric is great for the vast majority of people. I don't think people would see the same advantages if having to rely on public charging.

I think we are in The Chasm phase of EV adoption.


I think it will be a year or two and we will be solidly in the pragmatist phase.

 

[Chili327]

I believe eBikes are taking over, over there too?
They are becoming very popular here in the states, but i think a few years behind EU.

 

[tx911]

My wife and I have been all electric for 2 years now.

We drive about 20,000 miles a year between the two cars for a total cost of about $530 a year which is 1/3 the cost of driving gas.

We have taken 3-4 road trips each year and have only had minor issues with public charging.

If you have home charging, can be just 120v it does not have to be 240v, driving electric is great for the vast majority of people. I don't think people would see the same advantages if having to rely on public charging.

I think we are in The Chasm phase of EV adoption.
View attachment 836510

I think it will be a year or two and we will be solidly in the pragmatist phase.

Lol, I'm a skeptic, so I guess it'll be a while

 

[mikehn]

My SO got a 2024 Rav 4 hybrid not long ago. After driving a hybrid, I dont think I could ever buy a gas car again. Yes they are more expensive but they are far more superior.

 

[kdonnel]

Lol, I'm a skeptic, so I guess it'll be a while

I don't want to ever buy an ICE again. Forgetting all the other benefits, electric is so much more fun to drive.

A couple months ago I thought I might have a fight on my hands to keep the road trip EV. One of our EV, the Chevy Bolt, is not appropriate as a road trip car. It fast charges much to slowly. But it is a great commuter car for getting to and from work and around town. The other EV is a Ford Mustang Mach e. It can charge over three times faster than the Bolt is well suited for road trips.

My wife's brother had a heart attack, he is fine, and she needed to drive to see him, a 300 mile round trip that would require a short DC fast charging stop to complete.

Her choices for the trip were to take the nearly brand new EV or her parents nearly 20 year old car.

My wife had reluctantly agreed to the dual EV scenario. She was a skeptic and not so sure of the practicality.

For the trip she opted for the EV and the ease of the trip finally fully sold her on the practicality of an EV.

For the skeptics to be convinced they are going to need to hear stories from real people they know or experience an EV for themselves. Too much of the media stories are rooted in gloom and doom, focused on edge cases that are rare. Conversely, too many of the user stories are way too rosy and ignore some of the issues.



The story of her trip I wrote on another forum:

Last time she took a trip without me, she was traveling with my daughter and they opted to take my daughters ICE car instead of the MME. This time her choices were to take her parents in their 20 year old car or in the MME and she opted for the MME.

I figured this was it. If the trip went bad we would have to sell both EV on her return.

Since this was an emergency trip we did not manage to get it charged to 100% before she had to leave but did manage to get it to 99% so close enough. This last minute trip is one of the reasons why I always charge the car every night. Worst case we leave at 90%, best case we press the charge to 100% button while packing and get a little more juice like in this example.

We talked about charging options for the return trip. There was an EA station on the way back that made the most sense but also a few stations billed through ChargePoint that were options. I made sure her phone had the Electrify America app, gave her a crash course in activating if plug and charge did not work, and gave her the physical ChargePoint card we have and crossed my fingers.

On her return she had only positive things to say.

Her charging stop was effortless. She pulled up at the EA station, plugged in, and the car started charging at an appropriate rate for her current SOC, 75 kWh, slowly dropping to 55 kWh where it was when she unplugged. She did not have to wait for a spot, did not have to move from one dispenser to another to find a properly working dispenser, and plug and charge worked like it should.

On prior road trips with me I would tell her we could stop charging as we had enough to either make it to the next charger or our destination but she would always insist we charged just a little longer, often times charging until 90% at her insistence. This time though she was the one doing the EV math and stopped at 78%, not even waiting to get to 80%, because she knew that was enough to get back home with a 25% or so cushion based on the percentage used on the outbound leg of the trip. She arrived home at 28%.

Her parents enjoyed the trip as well. Whenever they have ridden in the MME they have been hyper focused on range. Asking me every few minutes how many miles range does it have left? Afraid we are going to run out of power driving the 8 miles round trip to the restaurant. She said they did ask her often but she finally told them to just look at the CarPlay arrival percentage. That a rough estimate of how much range they would have at the destination was to multiple that percentage by 3. She said that seemed to satisfy their range anxiety.

I am relieved it went well and that we do not have to sell our EVs.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Over here, cars are aggressively becoming electric only, with a total ban on petrol and diesel cars for sale coming just around the corner. We've had a few electric cars and so far, they're great! But you DO really need a home charging kit, which is far from practical when you don't have a drive to park on. Thoughts?

In my mind, I think of the time in this country around 1900. Let's pretend social media existed. The conversation - around these new fangled gas-powered buggies. They'll never replace the horse..... Where will we get fuel for it?..... Too expensive...... Too dangerous.......!

Will EVs be all we see on the roads someday? I expect not for decades to come. But business people will decide how quickly - those willing to develop faster-charging, more reliable batteries.... Those willing to invest in charging stations around the country like people last century started investing in gasoline stations - where people can travel and refuel.... The biggest advantage I see with EVs over the original gas models is you actually can have electric charging at home. I see EV charging stations all over now - in parking garages and on shopping center lots. Probably not enough to make it practical yet for everyone, but the momentum seems to be there.

 

[dizneegirl]

We've been EV only for a few years. Took some getting used to at first, especially to get over range anxiety at first, and then learning limitations like how to work with them in cold weather. DH has over 180k on his car now, with many miles coming from long road trips. We made a 600+ mile trip in single-digit weather this winter hauling a trailer in freezing rain... it can be done, you just have to be smart about it.

We have Teslas, so the charging is fairly easy to find. The cars will even map out the trip, telling us where to stop for charges, and how long we'll need to charge at each stop. From our first trip to Florida in 2018, we've seen the charging options at least double, with faster chargers installed along the way.

My mother tells me an EV would never work for her, but she doesn't drive far on a daily basis, and her only long trips, she would have charging stations available the whole way there (as she drives right by them and tells me about it, lol). Whatever. There's a choice right now, and we've made ours. I have no desire to go back to ICE.

 

[Neapolitan Ice Cream]

We're fairly lucky here, multiple charging points around the place and a few of them free (such as the ones at the gym)! We also, crucially, have off road parking and a charger, so we just leave it over night to get several hundred miles range the next day. Of course, if you want to drive anywhere remote and far away, you could be in trouble...

 

[kdonnel]

Of course, if you want to drive anywhere remote and far away, you could be in trouble...

But not really.

At least in the US the state of DCFC is often painted so poorly when in reality it is actually ok. Outside of the US we are told that Europe is leaps and bounds ahead of the US in charging infrastructure. Perhaps because Tesla was forced to use the same charging standard as all other EV automakers.

That common plug across EV automakers is coming to the US this year. A different plug than Europe but a common plug across almost all EV automakers.

Most EV have built in route planning. In theory you could hop in an EV, enter your destination in the routing app, and go on your merry way.

In reality that only works for Tesla but soon will be the case for virtually all EV.

Why?

Because Tesla built a robust and reliable charging network.

The non Tesla CCS DCFC stations do not have a reputation for reliability. As a result instead of just using the built in route planning I have to use other apps to lookup user experiences at the planned DCFC stops. If the other networks were known to be reliable I would not need the extra step.

Soon, in the next couple months, the Tesla Supercharger network will be open to the majority of EV automakers through an adapter. The competition for charging will force the other charging network operators to match the reliability of Tesla Superchargers.

It will be a win win for all EV.

Tesla owners can already use either the Tesla Superchargers or CCS DCFC with an adapter. In a couple months I will be able to use CCS DCFC or a Tesla Supercharger with an adapter.

Charging infrastructure will only get getter.

 

[tx911]

I don't want to ever buy an ICE again. Forgetting all the other benefits, electric is so much more fun to drive.

A couple months ago I thought I might have a fight on my hands to keep the road trip EV. One of our EV, the Chevy Bolt, is not appropriate as a road trip car. It fast charges much to slowly. But it is a great commuter car for getting to and from work and around town. The other EV is a Ford Mustang Mach e. It can charge over three times faster than the Bolt is well suited for road trips.

My wife's brother had a heart attack, he is fine, and she needed to drive to see him, a 300 mile round trip that would require a short DC fast charging stop to complete.

Her choices for the trip were to take the nearly brand new EV or her parents nearly 20 year old car.

My wife had reluctantly agreed to the dual EV scenario. She was a skeptic and not so sure of the practicality.

For the trip she opted for the EV and the ease of the trip finally fully sold her on the practicality of an EV.

For the skeptics to be convinced they are going to need to hear stories from real people they know or experience an EV for themselves. Too much of the media stories are rooted in gloom and doom, focused on edge cases that are rare. Conversely, too many of the user stories are way too rosy and ignore some of the issues.



The story of her trip I wrote on another forum:

Last time she took a trip without me, she was traveling with my daughter and they opted to take my daughters ICE car instead of the MME. This time her choices were to take her parents in their 20 year old car or in the MME and she opted for the MME.

I figured this was it. If the trip went bad we would have to sell both EV on her return.

Since this was an emergency trip we did not manage to get it charged to 100% before she had to leave but did manage to get it to 99% so close enough. This last minute trip is one of the reasons why I always charge the car every night. Worst case we leave at 90%, best case we press the charge to 100% button while packing and get a little more juice like in this example.

We talked about charging options for the return trip. There was an EA station on the way back that made the most sense but also a few stations billed through ChargePoint that were options. I made sure her phone had the Electrify America app, gave her a crash course in activating if plug and charge did not work, and gave her the physical ChargePoint card we have and crossed my fingers.

On her return she had only positive things to say.

Her charging stop was effortless. She pulled up at the EA station, plugged in, and the car started charging at an appropriate rate for her current SOC, 75 kWh, slowly dropping to 55 kWh where it was when she unplugged. She did not have to wait for a spot, did not have to move from one dispenser to another to find a properly working dispenser, and plug and charge worked like it should.

On prior road trips with me I would tell her we could stop charging as we had enough to either make it to the next charger or our destination but she would always insist we charged just a little longer, often times charging until 90% at her insistence. This time though she was the one doing the EV math and stopped at 78%, not even waiting to get to 80%, because she knew that was enough to get back home with a 25% or so cushion based on the percentage used on the outbound leg of the trip. She arrived home at 28%.

Her parents enjoyed the trip as well. Whenever they have ridden in the MME they have been hyper focused on range. Asking me every few minutes how many miles range does it have left? Afraid we are going to run out of power driving the 8 miles round trip to the restaurant. She said they did ask her often but she finally told them to just look at the CarPlay arrival percentage. That a rough estimate of how much range they would have at the destination was to multiple that percentage by 3. She said that seemed to satisfy their range anxiety.

I am relieved it went well and that we do not have to sell our EVs.

I get it, I just think EVs are not fully vetted yet, and it may be a mistake to go whole-hog EV with the entire automotive industry. Time will tell, because things seem to be heading in that direction.

 

[ronandannette]

We don‘t have enough charging stations here. We too are to go all electric but with all the condos and apartments can’t see it.

Plus the cold weather had line ups waiting because the batteries don’t last in the cold. Saw on the news someone said they don’t run their heat because it drains it. No thanks.

We are so far away from EV's being viable for broad-scale use in our country - all the points you've mentioned have SERIOUS reasons behind them. Everything from technology, to infrastructure to environmental impact to price accessibility. Even just comprehending the different challenges between regions/provinces is huge. Government just declaring "let it be so" will not solve them. And if environmentalism was the only factor, EV's aren't even necessarily the absolute best option, when all the factors are weighed on-balance.

We'd like to drive one just as a lark, and have purposely looked for EV rentals several times when travelling. We've yet to find one available. For ourselves, DH drives a Toyota hybrid (non-plug in) that gets 800km to a tank on the highway. It's provided fantastic performance and economy. My next vehicle will be one as well.

 

[hertamaniac]

A couple of issues with BEV's.

Residential electric charging rates have never gone down from what I've seen. I foresee them only increasing more than history as the grid operators will need to address/expand the infrastructure. I would then predict the users, whether you have a BEV or not, will bear the costs spread amongst the customer base. So now you are essentially married to your single source residential electric provider.

Obsolescence as newer battery technology get developed and produced. The depreciation of an EV, I expect, to be more than it's ICE counterpart. It's already happening as it only took Tesla to make massive cuts in the MSRP (or whatever it's called) to have a ripple effect on the entire BEV industry.

Replacement battery packs will be costly. Though BEV manufacturers have some solid warranties, once it expires or you are no longer in warranty, the replacement pack cost is substantial. And then the question becomes, is it worth it to this vehicle? Add to that the OEM may not even have battery packs available due to obsolescence. Voltage mismatch anyone? And then I'd be concerned about the BMS compatibility as well.

Some BEV's require maintenance that many owners neglect (and could void the warranty).

 

[OKW Lover]

Residential electric charging rates have never gone down from what I've seen. I foresee them only increasing more than history as the grid operators will need to address/expand the infrastructure. I would then predict the users, whether you have a BEV or not, will bear the costs spread amongst the customer base. So now you are essentially married to your single source residential electric provider.

I'm also wondering how many local power companies offer off-peak charging rates. I don't think my company (Duke) has that.