DVC plans to target commercial renters

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

I haven’t checked availability recently (life has been insane) but is the December issue exclusive to studios, or are 1 and 2BDs at desirable locations also equally booked up?

 

[lowlight]

October and November used to be inexpensive (i.e. relatively few points). Now, those two months are more expensive than the summer months.

As a result, some DVC members who used to go in October or November have now shifted to the first few weeks in December.

Absolutely, the demand for the week has gone up. The issue I’m pointing out in particular is that the walking, specifically of standard views, has gone from no walking 3 years ago, to a little walking, to all booked up 2 weeks ahead last year, to a month plus of walking this year. I don’t know what it will be like this year, but last year when I couldn’t get this week I went to rental websites and it was plastered all over. So it’s walking, renting, and increased demand, two of those are not acceptable reasons.

 

[lowlight]

I haven’t checked availability recently (life has been insane) but is the December issue exclusive to studios, or are 1 and 2BDs at desirable locations also equally booked up?

Studio and 2BR LO, 1BR stay open for awhile because they are a terrible points choice.

 

[Sandisw]

I haven’t checked availability recently (life has been insane) but is the December issue exclusive to studios, or are 1 and 2BDs at desirable locations also equally booked up?

The studios are what go very fast. This time of year has always been extremely popular for booking and rooms are gone within seconds of 8:00 am.

Some resorts will also see 2 bedrooms gone too, like BWV which only has 2 bedroom lock offs.

 

[xdan0920]

“Renting harms all owners in tangible and intangible ways, whether they realize it or not”

Nope. The points are going to be used anyways.

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.

 

[xdan0920]

I would be happy if all Disney did was go after the 3rd party rental sites. These are clearly commercial enterprises. It would also solve the issue of be careful what you wish for, since Disney wouldn't be coming after all you philanthropists out there.

 

[Judique]

The studios are what go very fast. This time of year has always been extremely popular for booking and rooms are gone within seconds of 8:00 am.

Some resorts will also see 2 bedrooms gone too, like BWV which only has 2 bedroom lock offs.

At BWV the studios were blurred out before 8am. This year at least. This is the first year that BW view and Garden view were both gone. I do actually book larger rooms mostly when family comes. Early December is usually a solo trip and why a studio works well.

I'm no longer invested in it. I'll catch a few nights here and there in December and also stay a week offsite in a very beautiful spot that I will not share and I will move my BWV usage to other room types/other times/other resorts between late October and April which are my preferred times to go. I'll be part of the riffraff in the GF lobby at Xmas, lol! There are always options of some sort.

It's been a relatively easy run for my first 20 years off ownership. Only the last 5 have given me any angst. I plan to swing with it and manage my future expectations based on my experience with the product. I'll let Disney deal with 'their' competition for the rental bucks. I've only rented one year long ago due to an emergency, but I recognize it (the ability to rent) as a 'plus' overall. I don't expect that anything Disney does to try to limit spec renting will fix this for owners. I do foresee that this will continue to impact owners and will spread to all resorts in time.

 

[Sandisw]

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue.

To be fair, people have shared opinions that seem to imply they would like to see DVC take steps to make renting in general harder by using the word “commercial” to describe all sorts of situations.

Like stopping owners from finding a renter using a third party.

While the brokers are a business, it’s the owner who has the contract with DVC and who is not allowed to have one…

Not sure how one finds a renter, automatically turns the owner into a commercial renter.

That’s like saying that I can rent a reservation to someone I found at the supermarket and that is in bounds, and falls within my right to rent but if I use a broker, that same rental is now out of bounds?

Which is why I said earlier, there are really two things some are concerned about.

One is stopping those large point owners who are actually renting a lot and have gotten around the threshold DVC set to define commercial.

The other is making it harder for your average owner to rent by limiting how, what, and when they can rent.

 

[Nabas]

The studios are what go very fast. This time of year has always been extremely popular for booking and rooms are gone within seconds of 8:00 am.

Some resorts will also see 2 bedrooms gone too, like BWV which only has 2 bedroom lock offs.

For example, when I booked for December 1 yesterday, I was able to get a Jambo House Standard Studio at exactly 8 am. Within an hour, Jambo House Savanna Studios were gone. When I checked back a few hours later, Kidani Village Standard Studios were gone as well.

IMO, early December has become the new peak period for DVC bookings, mostly due to recent changes in Point Charts.

Prior to the Point Chart changes, I don’t remember it being this challenging to book an AKV Studio for early December.

 

[Sandisw]

For example, when I booked for December 1 yesterday, I was able to get a Jambo House Standard Studio at exactly 8 am. Within an hour, Jambo House Savanna Studios were gone. When I checked back a few hours later, Kidani Village Standard Studios were gone as well.

IMO, early December has become the new peak period for DVC bookings, mostly due to recent changes in Point Charts.

Prior to the Point Chart changes, I don’t remember it being this challenging to book an AKV Studio for early December.

That is why we need to be sure not to paint all issues with the brush that it’s renting or walking as though that changes demand issues.

That’s not to say that DVC should not look at those and make sure that the system is working the best way it can.

But when you have demand outweigh supply, adjusting point charts or using the special seasons list is the true way to deal with those issues.

If many of the resorts are seeing their studios gone today at 8 am, then its demand that is the biggest factor here and not the others.

 

[kilik64]

If many of the resorts are seeing their studios gone today at 8 am, then its demand that is the biggest factor here and not the others.

Nope, wrong. Its because all the renters are booking them up to maximize profits due to the lower points cost. Same rooms command a premium when booked through Disney directly so they get to charge more for the rentals.

It is never just simple supply and demand.

(I agree with you, but that's what one of the crusaders will think/say)

 

[xdan0920]

Like stopping owners from finding a renter using a third party.

While the brokers are a business, it’s the owner who has the contract with DVC and who is not allowed to have one…

That’s me. I’d like the 3rd parties shut down. It would have no effect on folks who primarily use DVC for personal use, it would still allow anyone who wanted, to send their friends and family. And it would, IMO, have a huge positive impact on availability.

 

[lowlight]

Nope, wrong. Its because all the renters are booking them up to maximize profits due to the lower points cost. Same rooms command a premium when booked through Disney directly so they get to charge more for the rentals.

It is never just simple supply and demand.

(I agree with you, but that's what one of the crusaders will think/say)

You are conflating two things in an attempt to be…something. There are facts here that don’t care about feelings, and they are:

1) Riv and GF standard studios have been walked since early November
2) Some of those walkers are for personal use
3) Some of those walkers are for maximized rental profits
4) Supply and demand dictates that this week is hard to get regardless of 1, 2, and 3
5) 1, 2, and 3 make supply and demand irrelevant

Now my opinions:

6) Most who logged in today at 8am had no chance at a standard studio except Sandi
7) Sandi got her Riv standard view studio because apparently someone chose December 1st as the end of their walk. Odd.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

You are conflating two things in an attempt to be…something. There are facts here that don’t care about feelings, and they are:

1) Riv and GF standard studios have been walked since early November
2) Some of those walkers are for personal use
3) Some of those walkers are for maximized rental profits
4) Supply and demand dictates that this week is hard to get regardless of 1, 2, and 3
5) 1, 2, and 3 make supply and demand irrelevant

Now my opinions:

6) Most who logged in today at 8am had no chance at a standard studio except Sandi
7) Sandi got her Riv standard view studio because apparently someone chose December 1st as the end of their walk. Odd.

8) @Sandisw has accumulated a lot of good Disney karma for everything she does as a moderator to promote the love of Disney

 

[Willow Ufgood]

I haven’t checked availability recently (life has been insane) but is the December issue exclusive to studios, or are 1 and 2BDs at desirable locations also equally booked up?

It's both studios and 2BRs at BWV because all of the 2BRs are lock offs. 1BRs tend to last an little longer but even some of those are starting to disappear pretty quickly as well.

This morning, I was trying for a 2BR resort view which was available until 7:55 EST. Why does someone who is walking wait until 5 minutes before the window opens in order to walk forward? Yet I've seen it happen repeatedly over the past week. Resort view is available leading up to 8:00 but disappears just minutes before 8:00. And before anyone suggests that my clock isn't right, I'm syncing with the atomic clock. It's very curious.

 

[Nabas]

It's both studios and 2BRs at BWV because all of the 2BRs are lock offs. 1BRs tend to last an little longer but even some of those are starting to disappear pretty quickly as well.

This morning, I was trying for a 2BR resort view which was available until 7:55 EST. Why does someone who is walking wait until 5 minutes before the window opens in order to walk forward? Yet I've seen it happen repeatedly over the past week. Resort view is available leading up to 8:00 but disappears just minutes before 8:00. And before anyone suggests that my clock isn't right, I'm syncing with the atomic clock. It's very curious.

I saw the same thing last year when I tried to book an AKV Value room.

Specifically, a room for 11 months from today was available at 7:50 am but then disappeared at 7:55 am, before the 8:00 am window.

This has to be a walker.

It could be a human being walking this, but it just doesn’t make sense to me to wait last minute. (What if you get distracted? What if your computer crashes? What if you loose your connection? Etc.)

This leads me to believe a bot is walking the room, suggesting this is a commercial renter.

Addendum: I eventually got a Value room at exactly 11 months when Disney took the DVC booking tool down for maintenance, and you could not modify your room from midnight to about 8:15 am. I kept refreshing until the booking tool was functioning and then booked the room immediately. I have a lot of flexibility on my travel dates but for someone who does not, you have 0 chance of being faster than a bot if you need a specific day.

 

[JOLT]

I saw the same thing last year when I tried to book an AKV Value room.

Specifically, a room for 11 months from today was available at 7:50 am but then disappeared at 7:55 am, before the 8:00 am window.

This has to be a walker.

It could be a human being walking this, but it just doesn’t make sense to me to wait last minute. (What if you get distracted? What if your computer crashes? What if you loose your connection? Etc.)

This leads me to believe a bot is walking the room, suggesting this is a commercial renter.

Addendum: I eventually was able to get a room when Disney took the DVC booking tool site down for maintenance, and you could not modify your room from midnight to about 8:15 am. I kept refreshing until the booking tool was functioning and then booked it immediately. I have a lot of flexibility on my travel dates but for someone who does not, you have 0 chance of being faster than a bot for a specific day.

but if you have a bot why wait till 5 minutes before the same issues can happen with the bot.

 

[Sandisw]

That’s me. I’d like the 3rd parties shut down. It would have no effect on folks who primarily use DVC for personal use, it would still allow anyone who wanted, to send their friends and family. And it would, IMO, have a huge positive impact on availability.

At least that’s an honest response that for you, it isn’t really about commercial renting but it’s about the rental market in general.

You really seem to want DVC to pretty much stop owners from renting or institute rules that make it almost impossible to do it.

 

[zavandor]

I theorize that’s what’s going on in the first two weeks of December is (mainly) the result of recent Point Chart changes.

October and November used to be inexpensive (i.e. relatively few points). Now, those two months are more expensive than the summer months.

As a result, some DVC members who used to go in October or November have now shifted to the first few weeks in December.

It used to be that Food and Wine Festival was among the most difficult time periods to book. As a result of Point Chart changes, this has now shifted to early December.

We have booked DVC in December nearly every year. We love going when the weather is cooler and Christmas decorations are up. We will continue to do so.

However, even though it’s going to negatively impact me, I think Disney needs to increase the points required for early December. (Probably shift them from late August, where it’s easy to book despite points needed per night for August having already decreased in recent years.)

Difficult to be sure, but what you write is plausible, I think.
The problem is DVC won't increase the first two weeks of December because (I think) a lot of fixed weeks have been sold for those dates. If they increase those more, then they have to use their own points to compensate all owners who keep their weeks. This will make them lose money.

 

[Nabas]

but if you have a bot why wait till 5 minutes before the same issues can happen with the bot.

Because the seller is waiting last minute to see if anyone wants the dates they already have booked.

Waiting last minute to walk gives the commercial renter more flexibility.

But for the personal walker, it makes sense to walk as soon as possible.

I and @Willow Ufgood both observed instances of last-minute walking. It’s happening.

I’ve speculated why I think it’s happening. I’d greatly appreciate other opinions as to why someone would wait only a few minutes before 8:00 to walk.