DVC plans to target commercial renters

[tx911]

I have a New Years Resolution to walk more this year…..

Pot stirrer

 

[xdan0920]

So, I for one, would never vote or want a vote to change the product in a way that limits owners rights. Not sure why anyone would want that.

I don’t see it as limiting my rights. Stopping group 2 from renting to make weight does not limit my rights.

 

[lowlight]

I have a New Years Resolution to walk more this year…..

Wrong thread buddy, but I sincerely hope you do, I appreciate you helping the cause. I'd like someone on Disboards to make a YouTube video about it in simplistic terms, or maybe a nice easy to understand jpeg that we could disseminate far and wide. It's something every single member deserves to know about, and how to do, so they can all do it for every reservation they make.

 

[DougEMG]

As of April 2024 there were or are 18,771 BWV owners.

Unfortunately I don’t have the multi site POS for previous years to compare.

ETA. Found one for 2022, back then there were 18,885 owners.

2019, 18,274 owners.

And all of those owners want a standard studio for Food and Wine

 

[tx911]

And all of those owners want a standard studio for Food and Wine

May they all have an equal chance!

 

[Cfabar1]

If Disney can prove commercial intent and folks are using DVC as a money making opportunity I support those points being seized by DVC. It hurts the point of the program and the overall membership.

DVC needs to be careful how they make these determinations bearing in mind we all do have the right to rent out points and can also transfer points one time a year as well as I understand it.

But my mind goes to, it is in my interests that commercial renters are not artificially making it harder to book. It is also in Disney's interests to not have a secondary shadow competitor market for booking rooms at Disney.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Wrong thread buddy, but I sincerely hope you do, I appreciate you helping the cause. I'd like someone on Disboards to make a YouTube video about it in simplistic terms, or maybe a nice easy to understand jpeg that we could disseminate far and wide. It's something every single member deserves to know about, and how to do, so they can all do it for every reservation they make.

DVC Fan…. I think I watched or listened to nearly every episode before I made my first offer….

 

[Sandisw]

I’m legit having a hard time with this question

Someone brought up patterns of use earlier, I think @Sandisw.
I think that might be the key. It shouldn’t be hard to recognize the big players, and the rest may largely vanish if they go after those.

If you take the language of the contract and start there, there is a lot that DVC can do right now to change certain aspects of how things run.

The words pattern of rental activity are pretty important. The pre RIv resorts include that what is decided is reasonable for commercial.

So, that’s what DVC gets to decide. What can they do that owners can be convinced is a reasonable threshold that points to someone who is using DVC for a commercial purpose.

No question that when DVC started and it was small, that the rental market was small. Now that you have around 250k of owners, and most likely at least 75k memberships, even the occasional rental by owners is going to produce a lot of them.

But, that is simply a symptom of a large DVC membership…but IMO, it’s not necessarily a reason to change the rights we currently have.

DVC can certainly decide to tighten the rules to make pattern more than a number of reservations…they simply need to be able to frame it as a reasonable way to define commercial.

Thst is why I keep going back to the type of room isn’t really relevant in terms of what DVC can or should do.

 

[lowlight]

DVC Fan…. I think I watched or listened to nearly every episode before I made my first offer….

18 minutes is about 17 minutes and 30 seconds too long for most. We're talking 30 seconds of distilled knowledge. I have faith in you.

 

[tx911]

DVC Fan…. I think I watched or listened to nearly every episode before I made my first offer….

I watched that too (after I'd already bought).
My first thought was that I'd never want to do that to other owners

 

[muppets3d]

The reason why these threads go on for 40+ pages is because there are people here who are commercial renters and do mental gymnastics to try to reason themselves out of their future reality when DVC taps on their shoulder.

 

[muppets3d]

I watched that too (after I'd already bought).
My first thought was that I'd never want to do that to other owners

If you're walking, you will eventually give the room up. So all other owners have to do is pick up nights behind you, or waitlist them.

 

[tx911]

If you're walking, you will eventually give the room up. So all other owners have to do is pick up nights behind you, or waitlist them.

Unless you stop on the week they wanted. Not to mention them having to deal with the uncertainty if and when the room becomes available behind the walk.

 

[DougEMG]

What we really need is to stop all those lowly SSR owners from booking our precious hard to get resorts at 7 months. Lets have a vote on that. No bookings allowed other than home resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t see it as limiting my rights. Stopping group 2 from renting to make weight does not limit my rights.

Well, it does to anyone who doesn’t see those as using a membership as commercial at this point.

Remember, if DVC decides those actions count as commercial, they don’t need to change the contract because that’s what the contract allows them to do now. Enforce a reasonable definition of using a membership for commercial purposes.

If a contract change would be needed to include those, then we are giving DVC the right to limit personal renting.

And while you may have an idea of what that looks like, DVC could very well decide it’s something else.

So, I will never be in favor of contract change that gives DVC more power to limit our use.

Also, the board stated that this is not widespread…regardless of if that is true or not, that statement alone does seem imply that it’s not the major problem that some feel it is.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Three things going on, IMO.

1) Large scale commercial renters using LLC's to overcome point limits and renting out 100% of their points.
2) Medium scale owners who have a few thousand points and use the strategy of renting many of their points to cover the cost of their dues, their own personal trip, and a good bit of profit at the end.
3) The owner who rents occasionally because of sickness, busy year, emergencies, etc.

Most everyone agrees #1 needs to be fixed. You and I disagree on #2. My contention is it's likely the majority of people, besides those doing it themselves or those unaware of the issue completely, who want #2 to be fixed. Most on Dis agree #3 is not an issue, is working as designed, and don't want it changed. My point with #3 is that if you polled the entire membership, not just here on Disboards, I think most owners have never rented, will never rent, and would be indifferent towards renting being eliminated or not. Again, I'm not asking it to be shut down, I just think support for it is skewed on Disboards versus reality.




I agree, but you are skewing the options. AKV owners grabbing all value rooms to rent IS no different than SSR owners grabbing all preferred rooms to rent, but it IS different than AKV owners grabbing all the value rooms to use themselves for their own personal reservations. Owning DVC should be the surest way to get hard to get rooms. It's not. To do so, you have to 1) own, 2) have resort priority and 3) walk these rooms for weeks to months. If I rent points from someone, they do all this for me ahead of time, and I just give them money at a rate which has remained relatively unchanged for many years compared to inflation and rack rate increases. It's better to be a renter in this situation than an owner, which means DVC has failed in protecting its product from outside forces.



That's what I'm saying. The board should open it up to a vote then, and let's see where the chips fall. If you are so certain the majority of owners really don't care about #2 and #3 renters, there is nothing to lose on your side of the argument.

There are people in forums elsewhere that may not be here on disboards that have discussed this. Tons of people want them to crack down on commercial renting, the only ones I saw that think there isn’t a problem with commercial renting were people who actively rent out for profit.

 

[tx911]

DVC Fan…. I think I watched or listened to nearly every episode before I made my first offer….

I'm just watching this again for fun.
It's kind of hilarious when Pete asks if any of the panel has ever done it and they all deny it. They all look like they are lying

 

[VGCgroupie]

I have a New Years Resolution to walk more this year…..

When one doesn’t have a choice that’s what we must do.

 

[lowlight]

Also, the board stated that this is not widespread…regardless of if that is true or not, that statement alone does seem imply that it’s not the major problem that some feel it is.

The board said renting is not widespread? Or walking? I thought that comment was in reference to walking. If they said that about renting, then all hope is gone because they are in another universe completely.

 

[Sandisw]

The reason why these threads go on for 40+ pages is because there are people here who are commercial renters and do mental gymnastics to try to reason themselves out of their future reality when DVC taps on their shoulder.

I don’t think that is true at all…the bulk of posters here are not owners who rent much or at all.