backlash towards WS pavillions?

[morphi]

We visited WS at the end of January with my extended family (about 15 of us in 4 different generations). While I am not a fan of France due to their position on Iraq, I did suggest we all see the Impressions de France film because I enjoy it so much (primarily due to the terrific music). We all watched it, but several in my group did so grudgingly and would rather have skipped that pavillion altogether due to the UN fiasco.

Another note, the French are sometimes known for looking down their noses at Americans when we visit France (especially Paris). We made the rounds to 8 of the 11 countries with our 5 year old to color her KidCOT mask, and by far the most rude, disinterested, and snobby KidCOT attendant was in France. The runner-up was in Germany. The nicest was Norway (by far) and then Italy.

 

[DaveO]

Do not want folks to think I would be yelling, lecturing, or harassing the poor young folk at WS. But ... there would be this unsettling feeling in the pit of my stomach if I were to patronize those pavillions that are (key point here) sponsered by the respective governments.

And this is more than a 'disagreement' and from all the accounts I have read the poeple from 'the next axis of evil' countries for the most part support the goverments position. I do not see any protests in those countries against thier leaders for the ungratefullness to the US.

There I have vented ....

One other note .... It will be very hard to give up the our nightly walk from BWV to France for dessert of eclairs and cream puffs.
But I am willing to sacrifice for my country.

God Bless the USA and our troops.

Dave O.

 

[WDSearcher]

Originally posted by DaveO
I do not think I could talk to any of the CMs without having a hint of hostility in my voice - so I best stay away.

This intrigues me -- the assumption that all French must feel as the French government does, and therefore you wouldn't be able to even say "hello" without a touch of hostility.

Just as not every person living in the US agrees with the decisions of its government, you can't assume that every CM at the pavilions agrees with the policy of the French government simply because they're from France. Speak out against the country, if you must. Boycott its products and decry its government. But don't be hostile towards the people. Because, chances are, they don't like the spot they're in any more than you do.

Assuming there's an enemy in front of you without proof of it ... that's how wars start.

 

[ohanafamily]

I have no problem with the French, as I said on another thread I actually have family that refused to cancel their trip to Paris.

I do want to say 2 things:

1: US/IOA is owned by a French Company, NOT WDW.
2: France (the government) sponsors the pavillion in WS, so the CMs are, in effect, a representation of the French Government.

I am sure many of them personally disagree with the policy of their country, and I don't have any problem seperating the person from the concept of representation of their government. I can understand others not being able to seperate this.

JMHO

 

[manning]

What about Texas? How about the northwest territories? Puerto Rico? The Phillipines (1898-1946)? What about Guam? The Marshall Islands

What have we asked for in recent times?

 

[amw5g]

Originally posted by ohanafamily

2: France (the government) sponsors the pavillion in WS, so the CMs are, in effect, a representation of the French Government.

The United States "borrows" $1.25B a day from other countries, including France, Germany, et al. China alone accounts for almost 25% of that daily loan. The CMs working France are no more a figurehead of the French government than you are of the Chinese government. The linkage may be more obvious, but the purse strings and the mindsets are no different. They are working in the capacity of representing their homeland culture and as a fount of knowledge about the gentry. Not as card carrying members of the party-in-power. Anyone who fails to see that may need a refresher civics course.

Would you (not you, Ohanafamily, but "You" in the general sense) boycott the German & Japanese pavillions for their role in WWII? Would you skip the UK Pavillion because King George tried to rough up the original colonies? Would you Snub the American Experience because of the US government's policies towards the Narive Indian tribes? I wouldn't think that any of these thoughts would cross any visitor's mind.

We all have our own personal agendas and our own beliefs and shouldn't be judged solely by our employer, even if said employer is a government (assuming you are not an elected official).
I, for one, would want to be treated as an individual and not as an effigy in my travels. It's WDW, for goodness sakes, check your prejudices at the door! (ugh, that sounded so after-school-special)
Cheers,
Andrew

 

[tonyk]

Originally posted by DaveO
I will be the Un-PC one ....

When I go to WS in December I will be boycotting all the pavillions who did not support the US - especially France.

I do not think I could talk to any of the CMs without having a hint of hostility in my voice - so I best stay away.

I am sure I am not the only one. It would be interesting to see statistics on attendance.


Dave O.

I'm with you on this. I have been to Epcot 3 times in the last couple months and have avoided France each time. I doubt that "hurts" them in any way and I would not be hostile to anyone working there, but I cannot bring myself to overlook the current status of things. Maybe I'll return when all the France cast members are speaking German, Russian or Iraqi (kidding!)

 

[ohanafamily]

I hate to quote myself, but I think you, amw5g, read it a little fast.

Originally posted by ohanafamily
I have no problem with the French, as I said on another thread I actually have family that refused to cancel their trip to Paris.
...
I am sure many of them personally disagree with the policy of their country, and I don't have any problem seperating the person from the concept of representation of their government. I can understand others not being able to seperate this.

JMHO

My point is that they are representing the country in it's entirety, this includes the government and the culture. I can understand that some people have a problem seperating the person from the name tag. I, personally, don't have that problem.

 

[KNWVIKING]

"The United States "borrows" $1.25B a day from other countries, including France, Germany, et al. China alone accounts for almost 25% of that daily loan. "

Could you explain this comment ? Are you talking about the trade deficite ?

 

[amw5g]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Could you explain this comment ? Are you talking about the trade deficite ?

Right-oh. From the BEA 4th Quarter US Int'l Transactions report:
"The U.S. current-account deficit--the combined balances on trade in goods and services, income, and net unilateral current transfers--increased to $136.9 billion (preliminary) in the fourth quarter of 2002 from $126.3 billion (revised) in the third, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis."

Entire document can be found at
http://www.bea.gov/bea/newsrel/trans402.htm

I was actually using numbers from a prior quarter. The figures above show that the US is now actually relying even more heavily upon foreign sources of income. As one economist put it, "we are producing our own guns, but we have to borrow part of our butter from the rest of the world." He also contrasts the US position with that of Great Britain during its imperial heigh when it was the world's largest net CREDITOR nation, as opposed to a net debtor. I.e. it's the goodness of other lands and the attractiveness of the US as an investment-worthy entity that keeps our country afloat.

So please all you non-Yanks, please continue to come to the US and to WDW so we can keep our bread buttered .

-Andrew
(trying to inject a touch of levity in what is often a very grave subject)

 

[Kaelyn]

Someone mentioned Morocco as a possible point of comparative difference in behavior and attitude. Two points:

1) After 9/11, Moroccans were treated differently. I received the saddest letter form a friend of mine who was working there at the time. (In fact, when I first heard on the radio about the first plane hitting, he was the second person I called to drag out of bed.) In his email, he intimated (in very bad English) that there was a curtain that had come down between them and the guests at WDW. There were cold looks and cold shoulders and less interested in Moroccan culture and life and in the pavilion itself. I don't have a friend working there now, but I hope that there will be no more backlash of any kind.


2) Speaking as a born-again Christian, I have gone out of my way to be supportive of Muslims living in this country including and especially in the Moroccan pavilion. To equate all Muslims with bin Laden or Hussein or the PLO is like assuming that all Americans are in support of Bush or, conversely, that all Americans are rioting in protest. We all know that neither is true. Intolerance will get us no where, and that probaly applies to France as well.

 

[stevets]

I won't avoid any of the pavillions at WS because Disney is an American company. But I will never again set foot on Universal property because I wouldn't give a penny to those French mother-hubbards.

 

[WDSearcher]

To those who hate the French -- those who are pouring wine down sewers and renaming French fries and avoiding the France pavilion out of "principle." Remember that one of our most enduring American symbols of freedom -- the Statue of Liberty -- was a gift from the French. Perhaps you'd all prefer it if we dismantled it and sent it back. I, for one, would prefer it stayed.

 

[ohanafamily]

The French WERE also instrumental in our fight for independance. The problem is the current view of the government is to aid people with money who want us dead.

Times and policies change, and with all that America has done for them we have the right (if not the moral obligation) to ask "What have you done for US lately???"

Again, I would not hold this personally against the international CMs, companies that have invested in the US, or even any travelers. I only hold the current government liable for their "Support" of the US.

JMHO

 

[Planogirl]

Originally posted by d-r
Dave I don't disagree with the gist of what you are saying in your post or your main points.

But I do have to question that idea. What about Texas? How about the northwest territories? Puerto Rico? The Phillipines (1898-1946)? What about Guam? The Marshall Islands (we let those go in the 80s)? We gave Okinawa back to the Japanese in the 1970's, but we still have 13 bases there (more than land to bury our soldiers).

Again, I don't disagree with your premise that we do not have "Imperialistic" intentions in this conflict, but I'm not sure about the veracity of such an absolute statement....
DR

What about Texas? I'm missing something here. The US helped Texas but I would consider that a revolution from within and once done Texans had the right to decide whether or not to join the US. As a matter of fact, from my understanding Texas still has the right to secede without interference as a safeguard.

I will never even boycott any company operating on American soil that employs Americans. I remember many people demanding that we buy only American cars at one time. Then I discovered that many American cars are made in other countries while many of the imports are made right here. Maybe I have a skewed perspective but I concern myself with the working guys and not the corporations.

As for the French pavilion, I did go there and enjoyed myself as always. I refuse to blame any young CM from France for the lame-brain decisions of the French government or for the despicable acts of some protestors. I don't like the uncomfortable position this puts WDW in either. After all, Disney has a resort in France so what should they do?

 

[ChairborneRangr]

If you want to protest France go to http://www.giveitback.net and sign the internet petition to give the statue of liberty back to them.

Whether or not the pavilion is sponsored by the french government the CMs working there are french citizens that have at least a passing interest in the US. Just ponder this... It is people like this that have a tendancy to become government leaders. The future president of the United States of America could be meeting for the first time the future President (Prime Minister?) of France right there is the WS.

Our actions in places like WS leave a lasting impression on these guests in our country. What if that is their only exposure to us "arrogant americans"? Wouldn't you rather them be able to say "I was around millions of americans for a year at DisneyWorld and I think you're wrong about them" rather than "yup, you're right. They are arrogant jerks"?

just my .02

 

[eeyore0062]

Our actions in places like WS leave a lasting impression on these guests in our country. What if that is their only exposure to us "arrogant americans"? Wouldn't you rather them be able to say "I was around millions of americans for a year at DisneyWorld and I think you're wrong about them" rather than "yup, you're right. They are arrogant jerks"?

You are SO right, Chairborne Ramgr (love that name)! I wish that others would see it that way!!!!

 

[sweetpea15]

If it was not for the United States the Frence would be speaking German. How soon they forget.

 

[DaveO]

So we should ignore the fact that 1 in 3 French citizens want Saddam to win the war ...... And those are only the ones that admit to it.

No I am sorry, the US has turned the other check too many times.

It is not up to me in my own counrty to make people from other 'hostile' countries feel 'comfortable'. And yes I feel at this point France is 'hostile' as they stood in the way of letting us protect ourselves instead of just stepping aside.

Agian - I am not going to go to WS and start yelling at CMs - but I do choose not to interact and spend my money there. They need to know how we feel and if that makes them 'uncomfortable' then so be it. If we just go on as normal - what will change?

With the statistics if there are 20 CMs that means quite a number of them feel we should LOSE the war and more American lives.

Proud to be an American.

Dave O.

 

[searlproudbottom]

I happen to agree one hundred percent with DaveO.
Searl