Apartment complexes forcing residents to use "Smart" locks

[ChrisFL]

Saw this on Twitter....I don't see any official confirmation for this, but it doesn't surprise me. It is scary though.

https://twitter.com/hacks4pancakes/status/1086000837615382529


Basically, there is a major apartment company who is going to install so-called "smart" locks on all apartments in this person's complex, and possibly many others to come.

I understand the "ease" of use for certain types of internet connected technologies, but the ability to "opt out" should always be available, as we see constantly that these types of devices can be hacked.

 

[sam_gordon]

Saw this on Twitter....I don't see any official confirmation for this, but it doesn't surprise me. It is scary though.

https://twitter.com/hacks4pancakes/status/1086000837615382529


Basically, there is a major apartment company who is going to install so-called "smart" locks on all apartments in this person's complex, and possibly many others to come.

I understand the "ease" of use for certain types of internet connected technologies, but the ability to "opt out" should always be available, as we see constantly that these types of devices can be hacked.

Sounds like a close reading of the lease agreement is in order.

 

[arminnie]

I think it depends on the lock. I have a smart lock. It still can work with a key alone, and it’s quite easy to disarm the code unlock.
1) you could just take the batteries out.
2) very easily to disable a code or to never set one up.

 

[tvguy]

I'm not sure a tenant has any right to pick which kind of lock a landlord uses. And I suspect these are much more secure than traditional locks that can be picked by any thug.

 

[Colleen27]

I suspect far too much is made of the security concerns with these things. My brother locked me out enough when we were kids that I, at about 12, taught myself to pick our standard residential locks. So I feel like that really is an "anyone can do it" skill. Which isn't to say that hacking a smart lock is any harder, necessarily. I just doubt it is any easier.

 

[bcla]

I'm not sure a tenant has any right to pick which kind of lock a landlord uses. And I suspect these are much more secure than traditional locks that can be picked by any thug.

I'm a landlord myself. I legally have the right to select the lock. The tenant never had a legal right to change/rekey the locks. Most rental agreements have an out clause that if needed in case of emergency, the landlord must promptly be given the keys. Legally I can't use the keys whenever I want. I could get sued for entering without permission.

I've been told that the Schlage SC1 is fairly easy to pick, since it's the most common lock in the US. Besides - if anyone really wants to enter, a battering ram would do the trick.

 

[tvguy]

I'm a landlord myself. I legally have the right to select the lock. The tenant never had a legal right to change/rekey the locks. Most rental agreements have an out clause that if needed in case of emergency, the landlord must promptly be given the keys. Legally I can't use the keys whenever I want. I could get sued for entering without permission.

I've been told that the Schlage SC1 is fairly easy to pick, since it's the most common lock in the US. Besides - if anyone really wants to enter, a battering ram would do the trick.

An amazing number of people just leave windows or sliding doors unlocked. The caught someone going balcony to balcony on a 2 story apartment complex here last year.....on the second floor.

 

[jerseygal]

I'm not sure a tenant has any right to pick which kind of lock a landlord uses. And I suspect these are much more secure than traditional locks that can be picked by any thug.

Would suspect that tenants have no clout in the security of the locks. Often times, these leases are very landlord friendly, these landlords feel if you don't like it, go elsewhere. Hopefully, these locks will provide the proper safety to the tenants.

 

[jerseygal]

An amazing number of people just leave windows or sliding doors unlocked. The caught someone going balcony to balcony on a 2 story apartment complex here last year.....on the second floor.

Guess some people are more lax and are not security minded. I grew up in suburbia, but my parents always encouraged us to check door locks etc. Fast forward to once we married, lived in a very nice suburban family neighborhood, our house backed up to a huge farm with corn that grew very tall in the summer, way behind the farm was a main road. We had an ADT security system on our home, but as advised by ADT, they suggested only to wire the first floor doors and windows as they said burglary of an upstairs window was very unlikely. One summer Sat night, when we were away for the weekend, we of course armed the home when we left. The ADT rep had advised to not install an alarm system on the upstairs windows, but instead to install a motion detector in the upstairs hall instead. So, a burglar literally dragged a ladder through the tall corn and took off the screen, picked the lock of the upstairs locked window and entered through our then 6 year old son window(we were all away thankfully). The burglars intent was to head to the master bedroom, but was immediately stopped when the motion detector in the hall sounded a very loud audible alarm. He literally left the ladder and ran through the corn field probably to a car waiting on the road. One of the neighbors was sitting on their back porch(it was about 9:30pm on a summer evening, but dark) on another road which bordered the corn fields and she said she remembered hearing rustling through the fields, didn't think anything of it until she heard the audible burglar alarm go off and police were called. Every house after that when we got ADT to install an alarm on the premises, we have the upstairs windows included, irregardless of how high the windows are off the ground. Very very unsettling experience. As I now recall this event twenty five years later, it leaves me with a sick stomach.

 

[jerseygal]

I'm a landlord myself. I legally have the right to select the lock. The tenant never had a legal right to change/rekey the locks. Most rental agreements have an out clause that if needed in case of emergency, the landlord must promptly be given the keys. Legally I can't use the keys whenever I want. I could get sued for entering without permission.

I've been told that the Schlage SC1 is fairly easy to pick, since it's the most common lock in the US. Besides - if anyone really wants to enter, a battering ram would do the trick.

Do you re key the locks when the tenant vacates? I have always wondered whether the locks are in fact re keyed. I certainly would hope so! When we close on a home, first order of business is a locksmith changing the locks!

 

[tvguy]

Guess some people are more lax and are not security minded. I grew up in suburbia, but my parents always encouraged us to check door locks etc. Fast forward to once we married, lived in a very nice suburban family neighborhood, our house backed up to a huge farm with corn that grew very tall in the summer, way behind the farm was a main road. We had an ADT security system on our home, but as advised by ADT, they suggested only to wire the first floor doors and windows as they said burglary of an upstairs window was very unlikely. One summer Sat night, when we were away for the weekend, we of course armed the home when we left. The ADT rep had advised to not install an alarm system on the upstairs windows, but instead to install a motion detector in the upstairs hall instead. So, a burglar literally dragged a ladder through the tall corn and took off the screen, picked the lock of the upstairs locked window and entered through our then 6 year old son window(we were all away thankfully). The burglars intent was to head to the master bedroom, but was immediately stopped when the motion detector in the hall sounded a very loud audible alarm. He literally left the ladder and ran through the corn field probably to a car waiting on the road. One of the neighbors was sitting on their back porch(it was about 9:30pm on a summer evening, but dark) on another road which bordered the corn fields and she said she remembered hearing rustling through the fields, didn't think anything of it until she heard the audible burglar alarm go off and police were called. Every house after that when we got ADT to install an alarm on the premises, we have the upstairs windows included, irregardless of how high the windows are off the ground. Very very unsettling experience. As I now recall this event twenty five years later, it leaves me with a sick stomach.

Several Police Departments here routinely put out reminders that "It's 9 pm are your doors locked" because an amazing number of people forget to lock their doors.

 

[tvguy]

I also believe some members of the Jewish faith are prohibited from operating mechanical locks on the Sabbath, so they have digital or smart locks on their homes. A friend works for a couple who own lots of apartments and they have been asked by tenants of the Jewish faith to put these locks on their doors. And apologies to those of the Jewish faith is I have gotten something wrong with this religious restriction.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I also believe some members of the Jewish faith are prohibited from operating mechanical locks on the Sabbath, so they have digital or smart locks on their homes. A friend works for a couple who own lots of apartments and they have been asked by tenants of the Jewish faith to put these locks on their doors. And apologies to those of the Jewish faith is I have gotten something wrong with this religious restriction.

I would assume that's would be a specific branch of Judaism.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I think the lady both protest too much.

 

[mousefan73]

My dad always said “ a lock keeps a honest theif out”

 

[firefly_ris]

I understand some of her security concerns from a tech standpoint, but, in the end she is a renter and does not own the building. I'm not currently a landlord but was for several years... we did things in best interest for our tenants, but ultimately they were our houses, our decisions. We got new locks for new tenants. I am sorry she is frustrated but that's kind of how it is when someone else owns the building. On top of that, it sounds like it's owned by a large management company, so not as personal as renting from a smaller time owner.

 

[tvguy]

I would assume that's would be a specific branch of Judaism.

There is a Temple near where my son and daughter in law live, and many of the members live close buy because they also can't drive on the Sabbath. Friday evening you see them all walking to the Temple

 

[wenrob]

I think it depends on the lock. I have a smart lock. It still can work with a key alone, and it’s quite easy to disarm the code unlock.
1) you could just take the batteries out.
2) very easily to disable a code or to never set one up.

This. This chick sounds incredibly paranoid and seems to lack an understanding of how “smart things” work.

It’s been a couple of decades since I rented an apartment but we always changed the locks and gave the main office a key when we moved in. It’s the first thing we’ve done in any home we’ve ever lived in rent or own.

 

[GreatLakes]

The tenant has no real say in what the landlord does with their locks. I highly doubt there is anything in the lease mentioning the rights of the tenant to have a say in the type of locks chosen.

The security, on the other hand, is an issue but one that is as much about the network and model chosen as it is about the lock's technology itself. A PP mentioned the ease at which they could pick a lock as a kid. That is because it was a poorly made lock. Just like you have well made and poorly made physical locks you have well made and poorly made digital locks. The technology adds a layer though. Not only do the physical mechanisms have to be sound but the technology and authentication of the digital technology has to be sound. Any lock can be picked by an expert (analog and digital) but you need one that eliminates the other 99% or the nosy kid next door.

I didn't see it mentioned, though I only read the original tweet, but it doesn't mention if this is an Internet connected Smart lock or just a digital lock. The later isn't really smart. The cut off part of the tweet makes me think it mentions using your phone which means it is Internet connected. If that is the case the complex will need to provide the WiFi connection for the locks. How secure is that network? Is it set up with proper encryption, authentication controls, and segmentation for IoT devices? If an apartment complex is implementing these kinds of locks someone with Enterprise level WiFi experience should be setting it up and configuring it. A $100 router from Best Buy stashed in a closet isn't going to cut it from a security standpoint.

 

[wenrob]

The tenant has no real say in what the landlord does with their locks. I highly doubt there is anything in the lease mentioning the rights of the tenant to have a say in the type of locks chosen.

The security, on the other hand, is an issue but one that is as much about the network and model chosen as it is about the lock's technology itself. A PP mentioned the ease at which they could pick a lock as a kid. That is because it was a poorly made lock. Just like you have well made and poorly made physical locks you have well made and poorly made digital locks. The technology adds a layer though. Not only do the physical mechanisms have to be sound but the technology and authentication of the digital technology has to be sound. Any lock can be picked by an expert (analog and digital) but you need one that eliminates the other 99% or the nosy kid next door.

I didn't see it mentioned, though I only read the original tweet, but it doesn't mention if this is an Internet connected Smart lock or just a digital lock. The later isn't really smart. The cut off part of the tweet makes me think it mentions using your phone which means it is Internet connected. If that is the case the complex will need to provide the WiFi connection for the locks. How secure is that network? Is it set up with proper encryption, authentication controls, and segmentation for IoT devices? If an apartment complex is implementing these kinds of locks someone with Enterprise level WiFi experience should be setting it up and configuring it. A $100 router from Best Buy stashed in a closet isn't going to cut it from a security standpoint.

She mentions being assigned a hub which she seems quite offended by, lol. Skimming through the tweets it appears it’s a professional company installing them. All smart locks do is turn the original bolt for you. As a PP mentioned the feature can be easily disabled so that it requires a key. Or she can choose not to set up the hub/lock. The apartment complex can insist on installing them but I don’t think they can enforce using the features.