Any idea when we can buy WDW annual passes?

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As a matter of speculation, I believe most of you have heard of Len Testa and Jim Hill? Probably the two most connected individuals who do not actually work at Disney. They don't just know cast members, they are friends with many Imagineers and even execs.

So I will simply quote from their latest podcast(The Disney Dish) starting at the 6:50 minute mark: "We are not talking about annual passes anymore, we are talking about a loyalty program(quoting Chapek's own words from a previous earnings call)" Testa: "That's not an annual pass is it?" Jim Hill in a demoralized tone: "no..."

They continue and once again quote Chapek talking about annual passholders: "We weren't getting the spending we wanted from them"

Testa then goes on to say that last earnings call Chapek said: "if you rank every type of visitor from the most to least profitable, your once in a lifetime grand floridian visitor would be at the top and on the very bottom of the list would be Annual passholders" or "people who pick up mcdonalds on the way to the park" as Jim Hill remarked ...

Testa says: "think of Las Vegas, the more you play or the more you stay the more rewards points you get, I think it's going to be something like that"
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I believe 1000% that the AP program will end at both parks across the board. Those of you who use the fact that you are getting renewals as some form of proof that it will continue, the reason that is happening is because they don't want the bad PR of taking advantage of Covid and so they are allowing a very small percentage of you in limbo to renew, but your pass will end in a year and you will be in the same boat as the rest of us. I believe that more than I believe in gravity itself at this point.
They clearly don’t value loyal guests (APs). I took my refund of my family’s Disneyland APs and added some $$ and bought Universal Orlando APs where I do feel valued. I have 2 trips currently booked. We will go back to Disney eventually, but it’s no longer a priority. I just read the Disney stuff out of curiosity, there’s no way I’d go with zero fast passes either, yuck.
 
It would also be a nice gesture to anyone who currently has tens of thousands of dollars invested in DVC but can't get an AP.
Exactly 💯 but once again Disney is showing their "we have your money already, you no longer matter" philosophy. We love Disney Vacation Club but find that we are always last on the list when it comes to Disney doing things special, once you pay for DVC. We should have the same options as Florida residents for our tickets and ticket options.
 
They clearly don’t value loyal guests (APs). I took my refund of my family’s Disneyland APs and added some $$ and bought Universal Orlando APs where I do feel valued. I have 2 trips currently booked. We will go back to Disney eventually, but it’s no longer a priority. I just read the Disney stuff out of curiosity, there’s no way I’d go with zero fast passes either, yuck.

Similar scenario as ours, except we didn't purchase any APs yet. Currently in a holding pattern to see how the FL resident AP program shakes out.
 
They clearly don’t value loyal guests (APs).

To be fair to Disney, why would they "value" AP guests over any other guest? And full disclosure, I am asking as someone that both held an AP (up until the pandemic) and also someone that purchased DVC. For example, I know full well Disney values me less as a guest because I have a DVC. I'm locked in - they have my revenue up-front for my hotel stays - they don't need to bother enticing me to stay or offer me great perks. The only reason DVC offer perks (e.g. member lounge) is purely to entice new purchases - not to benefit existing members because we are 'valued'. I can't say that makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but Disney is a business and that's just how it works. Guests paying cash for their hotel stay often get offers and perks that I don't - such as free dining - because they are more valuable guests to Disney - because they pay more.

An Annual Pass is a massively discounted ticket at the end of the day. We get more for less. There is no "loyalty" on either side, ours or theirs. You buy an AP because you want to go to the park on multiple occasions in a year, and its a cheaper ticket option than daily tickets (or, indeed, you wouldn't bother going at all if you were forced to buy day-tickets - i.e. there is no loyalty). We all get grouped into a general guest category - i.e. an AP holder. And each category will have have a different dollar value to Disney. That, quite simply, is how they determine who they value. For example, an average UK guest who visits once a year is likely to be worth substantially more than an average AP holder. And that's precisely why UK guests have access to some of the cheapest tickets worldwide - because they typically spend spend spend - non-discounted merchandise, dining, ticketed events, and so on; they vacation for longer and plan well in advance - so nice a predictable revenue up front. That's also why UK guests can typically book well before U.S. guests (or at least, could before the Pandemic - a full 2 years ahead, vs the 499 days in the U.S.).

Disney would rather fill up its park capacity with those guests who provide the most dollar and then fill any space left over with those who bring in the least revenue (APs). Unfortunately, you need to ditch the idea of any loyalty - it has never been there. They would get rid of Passholders if they could - but the fact is they cannot (yet) fill a park to capacity with package-vacation guests and day-ticket guests. If they ever get to that point, then APs will be gone completely.

This does not mean they don't care about guest experience - i.e. the Warren Buffet quote above ("If a company is managed only for the bottom line, sooner or later that company will not have a bottom line"). This is about filling the park up with the most profitable guests (which in turn, could mean a better experience, lower crowds, etc).
 
Just to clarify, park hopping is available after 2 pm and after you have visited the park your reservation is for. Also APs are available to renewers.
 
Just to clarify, park hopping is available after 2 pm and after you have visited the park your reservation is for. Also APs are available to renewers.

If you never canceled your AP you are entitled to a renewal, if you canceled they won’t help you.

Also yes you can go to any park after 2 providing you scanned in at your reserved park initially.
 
If you never canceled your AP you are entitled to a renewal, if you canceled they won’t help you.

Also yes you can go to any park after 2 providing you scanned in at your reserved park initially.
Not true. I cancelled in July and just got a new one a couple weeks ago.
 
I think perhaps ... it’s possible but not always probable. I took the cash and am thinking on the AP myself if/when it’s available as I Never tried to renew. Some have been successful, others have Not. Best of luck if ur trying to renew.
 
For example, an average UK guest who visits once a year is likely to be worth substantially more than an average AP holder. And that's precisely why UK guests have access to some of the cheapest tickets worldwide - because they typically spend spend spend - non-discounted merchandise, dining, ticketed events, and so on; they vacation for longer and plan well in advance - so nice a predictable revenue up front.


Well said. I also appreciate your thoughts about AP holders and how they are out for one thing and one thing only, to save a lot of money on park tickets. AP holders are not some virtuous creatures out there who just love mickey mouse, they want cold hard cash returned and they want lots of visits for the price of one ticket.

This reminds me of hearing about the analytics that the insurance industry uses. They have incredibly sophisticated algorithms to predict risk and maximize profit. An example being if you have a red car versus a blue car. The person with the red car receives a marginally higher price based on algorithm, across a huge demographic pool, because they tend to speed more and get into accidents.

I am absolutely sure disney has a small army of people going over these numbers and it's been determined that AP's just aren't worth it. Just like they decided that Magical Express just wasn't worth it. They knew guests, especially ones on this board, would throw a fit and complain that Magical Express was yanked like it was nothing. Guess what? they ran the numbers and decided to dissolve Magical Express and dissolve disneyland AP's anyways knowing exactly what they were doing down to the penny.
 
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We just bought annual passes because we were Premier pass holders (both DL and DW in one) so we got a special deal on a DW season pass because of that. We are going for 16 days in October and buying daily tickets was crazy! I didn't know you couldn't buy season passes....I thought it was a normal thing. I'm really bummed that every one can't buy them now but as has been said...pass holders are really getting screwed right now because the parks are still not fully opened AND because people who pay for resort hotels get first choice! which is TOTAL BS!!
 
They just announced that they hope to see some normality by late fourth quarter...Disney's fourth quarter end in September...just in time for the Anniversary.
 
If you never canceled your AP you are entitled to a renewal, if you canceled they won’t help you.

Also yes you can go to any park after 2 providing you scanned in at your reserved park initially.
This isn't accurate. I cancelled my AP during the pandemic. I called and they put me on a list to call back. Two days ago I was called back and was able to renew.
 
We'll be looking at selling DVC if APs don't become an option again - I'm not paying for 2 8day passes with hopper so that I can use my DVC points. They might have my money - for now - but I don't have to let them keep it. I'm not sure when Disney became "them" to me - that's summarized by many in other posts.

You want me to keep my all of my DVC points, you offer me a DVC AP soon. JMHO
 
Not having the AP has taught us to enjoy the resorts. We'll spend the approximate cost of the AP over 3 or 4 vacations. This means we'll have a less park days and a few resort days. Truthfully, we were in WDW for a 6D vacation with 4D PH and we missed many of the resort areas we assumed we'd get to enjoy. We are going over July 4th weekend. We're not pre-buying a ticket. Instead we'll go to Guest Relations and if they can get us into EPCOT we'll buy a 1D and if not, "Oh look, Raglan Road." If they want to sell us an AP my hubby might get friction burn whipping out his wallet.
 
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