Tipping in 2008 - Dining plan and buffets

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The tip should be 15-20% if its buffet or not. If people start this stupid 10% max for a buffet, the service is going to drop quickly.


I agree! The only place we eat at buffets is WDW, & we rarely do that. That said, I really haven't noticed a big difference in the level of service between TS & buffet restaurants we've eaten at. The TS servers certainly didn't work almost twice as hard. If the good servers are only getting 10% of what is usually a cheaper meal, they'll be moving on to one of the many Orlando restaurants that offers a potential to make more. Soon WDW will have people who can't get a job at the better Orlando restaurants serving at their buffets.
 
That said, I really haven't noticed a big difference in the level of service between TS & buffet restaurants we've eaten at.
You didn't notice having to find and plate your own food, then deliver it to the table? You didn't notice your plate of food getting cold at the table while you assisted your children with their food gathering and plating? You didn't notice your other dining companions doing the same? ;)

Too many people look at this question from the servers' perspectives. Just because they keep busy does not mean they're providing the same level of service or value to the diner. The person leaving the tip should consider whether the service they received was the same in both restaurants -- after all, they are leaving the tip. And nobody could honestly say that as much is done for them by the servers in a buffet restaurant as is done in a table service restaurant.

I used this analogy before, but it's applicable:

Let's say my wife and I were to visit a spa, and that there were two kinds of spas. At the first spa, we walk in and tell the clerk we want a 40-minute full-body massage with a variety of massage oils. They have us lay down on massage tables, then go to work. Later we pay the bill and leave a 20% tip for the massage therapists.

At the second spa, we walk in and tell the clerk we want a 40-minute full-body massage with a variety of massage oils. "That's great!" responds the clerk. "We have dozens of massage oils to choose from, plus a wide variety of powders, towels, and hot washcloths. You'll love it!"

The only problem? "Oh, you have to massage your own arms, legs, hands and feet. The oils, powders, towels and hot washcloths are over there at the amenities bar -- you collect the ones you want yourself. We'll massage your back, which you can't reach yourself, and we'll make sure the used oils, towels, and cloths are cleared away when you're done with them." Do you honestly think it could be justified to pay a 20% tip to the staff in the second spa?

In the first spa, my wife and I received massages from the massage therapists. In the second spa, the massage therapists worked only on our backs, leaving us to handle all those spots we can reach ourselves. They may have stayed just as busy as those in the first spa, clearing away used bottles of massage oil, powders, and towels. But my wife and I -- the customers -- received less service, period.

It's the same with the restaurants. In one case, I, the customer, am waited on completely. In the second case (at a buffet), I, the customer, am doing a lot of the work that would be done for me at the non-buffet restaurant. It simply does not make sense to tip the same at both restaurants.

David
 
You didn't notice having to find and plate your own food, then deliver it to the table? You didn't notice your plate of food getting cold at the table while you assisted your children with their food gathering and plating? You didn't notice your other dining companions doing the same? ;)

Too many people look at this question from the servers' perspectives. Just because they keep busy does not mean they're providing the same level of service or value to the diner. The person leaving the tip should consider whether the service they received was the same in both restaurants -- after all, they are leaving the tip. And nobody could honestly say that as much is done for them by the servers in a buffet restaurant as is done in a table service restaurant.

I used this analogy before, but it's applicable:

Let's say my wife and I were to visit a spa, and that there were two kinds of spas. At the first spa, we walk in and tell the clerk we want a 40-minute full-body massage with a variety of massage oils. They have us lay down on massage tables, then go to work. Later we pay the bill and leave a 20% tip for the massage therapists.

At the second spa, we walk in and tell the clerk we want a 40-minute full-body massage with a variety of massage oils. "That's great!" responds the clerk. "We have dozens of massage oils to choose from, plus a wide variety of powders, towels, and hot washcloths. You'll love it!"

The only problem? "Oh, you have to massage your own arms, legs, hands and feet. The oils, powders, towels and hot washcloths are over there at the amenities bar -- you collect the ones you want yourself. We'll massage your back, which you can't reach yourself, and we'll make sure the used oils, towels, and cloths are cleared away when you're done with them." Do you honestly think it could be justified to pay a 20% tip to the staff in the second spa?

In the first spa, my wife and I received massages from the massage therapists. In the second spa, the massage therapists worked only on our backs, leaving us to handle all those spots we can reach ourselves. They may have stayed just as busy as those in the first spa, clearing away used bottles of massage oil, powders, and towels. But my wife and I -- the customers -- received less service, period.

It's the same with the restaurants. In one case, I, the customer, am waited on completely. In the second case (at a buffet), I, the customer, am doing a lot of the work that would be done for me at the non-buffet restaurant. It simply does not make sense to tip the same at both restaurants.

David

You're aware of this before going to the restaurant. If you're not willing/able to tip the going rate, then why bother visiting the establishment?

I not sure, but I believe the IRS taxes servers based on the price of the meal. I don't believe they tax those working in buffets less than those working TS.
 
Doesn't tipping depend on the quality of service provided?! That's the way we look at it...One of the worst servers we had was at a TS. One of the best? At a buffet. Who do you think got the bigger tip??
 
She's also from Canada, and typically they don't tip as much either. Its pretty easy to figure out 15-20% of a bill, but some can't do it. They are typically the ones who toss out the argument why should I tip more for the same service just because it cost more. They don't understand the concept of location. These people will probably never have to pay for a brake job on a BMW, or a lunch in London.


You are correct we do not tip as high. The reason is restaurant staff are paid considerably more up here than down there. The minimum wage here is 8.00 an hour. The minimum wage in Florida is 6.67. We pay 10% for regular service and 20% for good or exceptional service.
 
You didn't notice having to find and plate your own food, then deliver it to the table? You didn't notice your plate of food getting cold at the table while you assisted your children with their food gathering and plating? You didn't notice your other dining companions doing the same? ;)

Actually, my DS is now 15, so that's not an issue. When he was younger, we all went up together. He selected his food, I served it (I hate it when kids serve themselves, btw), & my DH held the plate. Sometimes, I did both. I didn't feel like we posessed super powers to be able to accomplish that. If you have more kids than adults, I can see things would be different.

As for carrying plates..... At TS restaurants, the server delivers drinks & plates. Usually a busboy cleans them up. If the family doesn't order appetizers or desserts, the buffet server could end up clearing away more dirty plates than the TS server brings. They also bring your drink. If we choose to eat a restaurant where we have to serve ourself, that's not the servers fault. They're still having to deal with our dirty plates, which IMO is worse than delivering fresh plates.

And your Spa analogy..... Was I supposed to see a correlation between that & TS vs. buffet dining? :rotfl:
 
You are correct we do not tip as high. The reason is restaurant staff are paid considerably more up here than down there. The minimum wage here is 8.00 an hour. The minimum wage in Florida is 6.67. We pay 10% for regular service and 20% for good or exceptional service.


I can see how that would happen, if you're not familiar with local customs. I bet our servers loved us, when we visited Vancouver.

I can see them now.... cut to kitchen.... There they are. In the back drawing straws to see who gets the dumb Americans who'll tip them 20% on a $150 to $250 meal. :rotfl2:

It didn't even occur to me to inquire about the tipping custom. :blush:
 
I also figure 10% for Buffets and 15to 20% for TS depending on the service!So as a solo I would be tipping around $5 for average service and up to $10 for great service and at buffets $3 -$6 depending on server. While I agree this should mean better service for DDP people I also feel the poor server will get stiffed Big time!!

Oh I totally agree. I feel really bad for them. I mean they knew they were getting at least that amount on DDP guests. (Contrary to what I've read on the boards, we never experienced bad sevice when the server knew we were on the plan) Now, even if the server works extra hard at earning his tip, IF people remember to leave the tip, I'm sure a lot of times it will be about $5 on a $100 tab.
I bet Disney will have a big turn-over in CM's because of this.
 
In my own defense, I wasn't talking about 2 adults - my daughter is 11 but will only eat off the kids menu most of the time - so our bill at TS would be 1 adult meal and 1 kids meal - so if it is around $35, I thought a $5-6 tip is fine, as yes, I am Canadian and used to tipping 10-15%. I never thought about it being different.
As for buffet, same thing $3-$4 for a $30-$40 meal.
Thats what I have budgeted, so I guess that is what they get. If someone does something exceptional, then I may tip more. If they give terrible service I may tip less.
 
The following are 3 specific guidelines on what the appropriate tip for buffets are. I have attached the links if anyone wants to check...Also if anyone can find anything different, please post. Basically here is a brief breakdown on tipping


http://soundmoneytips.com/article/3441-tip-for-tipping-at-buffet-restaurants
THIS LINK STATES 10% FOR BUFFET SERVERS


http://www.tipping.org/tips/buffet.html
THIS LINK STATES 5% TO 10% FOR BUFFET SERVERS


http://hotels.about.com/od/hotelsecrets/a/tipping_2.htm
THIS LINK STATES $1 TO $2 A PERSON.

I think that it is great if people want to tip 20% on a buffet, but it is inaccurate to give the perception that it is expected.
 
In my own defense, I wasn't talking about 2 adults - my daughter is 11 but will only eat off the kids menu most of the time - so our bill at TS would be 1 adult meal and 1 kids meal - so if it is around $35, I thought a $5-6 tip is fine, as yes, I am Canadian and used to tipping 10-15%. I never thought about it being different.
As for buffet, same thing $3-$4 for a $30-$40 meal.
Thats what I have budgeted, so I guess that is what they get. If someone does something exceptional, then I may tip more. If they give terrible service I may tip less.

Oh no, I wasn't meaning that in a :sad2: kind of way. I mean, from personal experience with some of my own friends and family members that they still think that $5.00 is an awesome gratuity whether the bill was $10 or $500! I think that is a common thought. I don't think many people have stopped to think about exactly what 15 or 18% of the bill would be, they just toss down a few dollars and don't give it a second thought.

As far a tipping more or less, I am a firm believer that exceptional service merits an exceptional tip, but I am not opposed to leaving very little if anything if the server has been rude or inattentive. We are not demanding people. I can forgive the slow drink refill or the forgotten extra napkins on a busy night, I cannot forgive a rude or a "don't care" attitude. :mad:
 
You're aware of this before going to the restaurant. If you're not willing/able to tip the going rate, then why bother visiting the establishment?

I not sure, but I believe the IRS taxes servers based on the price of the meal. I don't believe they tax those working in buffets less than those working TS.

Tips are generally pooled. This way the Host/ess and the Bussers get included. The percentages have been 20% to the house for Hosts & Bussers, 80 to the servers.

The Gratuities are calculated/distributed on the hours worked. This allows the house to calculate the tip $$ to report on the paycheck stub (and collect the correct taxes, etc).

Can you imagine the theft if everyone left cash for gratuities? I truly believe there are enough dishonest people that 30% of the cash left on the tables would get scooped up by guests or CM. Locally, we never leave cash on a table-we find the server and give them the tip.
 
Walt Disney World always looks for ways to save/make money
WDW guests look for ways to maximize savings and value for the their dollar
Well the WDW Servers also look for ways to maximize their earning potential.

Example; A recent trip we got into a discussion with a Server from buffet service restaurant, about the changes to the 2008 DDP. He/She told us that He/She used to work at a full service table service restaurant but when Disney started to include 18 % for the servers tips in all the participating restaurants, He/She said He/She transferred to a Buffet style restaurant as He/She was given more tables as which resulted in more income overall. Then He/She stated that He/She was going to transferring back to a full service restaurant soon to avoid a loss of pay from the 2008 DDP and from guest leaving less than the 18% He/She was accustomed too.

Where is the happy median?

Wouldn’t it be nice if Disney would just pay the servers a prevailing wage and just build in the whole cost in the price on the menu.

There is a LOT more to the picture that that. Disney sets a standard as they call it, as to the most number of people one sever can take care of at a time. Its something like 22 or so. That doesn't change for buffet vs non buffet.

If a server transfered from a cheaper, non busy, non buffet to a more expensive, busy buffet then yes, the server will make more money.


The service is already lower at a buffet. Hence the lower tip percentage.

David

Matter of opinion, and your view. Its a lot different in someone elses shoes.


You are correct we do not tip as high. The reason is restaurant staff are paid considerably more up here than down there. The minimum wage here is 8.00 an hour. The minimum wage in Florida is 6.67. We pay 10% for regular service and 20% for good or exceptional service.

It may be 6.67 in fl, but thats not NON TIPPED positions. Servers make like $3.30 an hour at disney.


The following are 3 specific guidelines on what the appropriate tip for buffets are. I have attached the links if anyone wants to check...Also if anyone can find anything different, please post. Basically here is a brief breakdown on tipping


http://soundmoneytips.com/article/3441-tip-for-tipping-at-buffet-restaurants
THIS LINK STATES 10% FOR BUFFET SERVERS


http://www.tipping.org/tips/buffet.html
THIS LINK STATES 5% TO 10% FOR BUFFET SERVERS


http://hotels.about.com/od/hotelsecrets/a/tipping_2.htm
THIS LINK STATES $1 TO $2 A PERSON.

I think that it is great if people want to tip 20% on a buffet, but it is inaccurate to give the perception that it is expected.

Funny, none of those are talking about disney. If you're in your home town, and stop by the Golder Corral, that server barely if it all deserves 10%. All the servers I personally know, and have also been waited on by go far above and beyond the level of service at Golder Corral, thus the normal 15-20%. If you want, I can post links saying a standard brake job should run $XX.XX but if you are driving a Ferrari, I don't think that applies. The same goes for what is many, a once in a life time meal.

Tips are generally pooled. This way the Host/ess and the Bussers get included. The percentages have been 20% to the house for Hosts & Bussers, 80 to the servers.

The Gratuities are calculated/distributed on the hours worked. This allows the house to calculate the tip $$ to report on the paycheck stub (and collect the correct taxes, etc).

Can you imagine the theft if everyone left cash for gratuities? I truly believe there are enough dishonest people that 30% of the cash left on the tables would get scooped up by guests or CM. Locally, we never leave cash on a table-we find the server and give them the tip.

I sure hope you're not speaking of Disney, as no where I know on property pools their tips.

Theft? Disney is not perfect, but their staff is a little more trust worthy than that. Hosts or busers bus tables all the table, and then hand off the black books to the server without problems. It happens at least once a day in every restaurant that a server will set down a black book that has cash in it, and forget it. The next server who picks it up, sees the cash inside, a receipt showing the proper servers name, and simply hands it off to that server.
 
You're aware of this before going to the restaurant. If you're not willing/able to tip the going rate, then why bother visiting the establishment?
Sorry, but the "going rate" for buffet tipping is 5-10% by all standard guides. Tip more or less if you like... but don't try to pretend that a standard tip for buffet service is greater than 10%.
I not sure, but I believe the IRS taxes servers based on the price of the meal. I don't believe they tax those working in buffets less than those working TS.
We've been through this before on other threads. This is false. Servers are not taxed on money they did not receive. (It's more complicated than that, but I'm not going to rehash it all here.) Suffice it to say that no Disney server would ever fall into that category, and even if they did, the standard rate assumed is 8% aggregate. Servers are not taxed on single tables.
If you have more kids than adults, I can see things would be different.
You missed the point of my example. I'm not claiming hardship for the guest. I'm pointing out one of the primary ways in which a guest at a Disney buffet receives less service from their server than a guest at a non-buffet TS restaurant receives.
And your Spa analogy..... Was I supposed to see a correlation between that & TS vs. buffet dining?
Yes, and it's a pretty obvious one. I'd try to dumb it down a bit, but I'm pretty sure you understood it as written and are only being argumentative now.
Matter of opinion, and your view.
Sorry, but there are opinions and there are facts. That the guest receives less service from the server in a buffet is fact, not opinion. It's very simple, really. In a non-buffet restaurant, I do not have to collect and plate food, or do the same for children, etc. The server does that for the dining party. At a buffet, the dining party does all that.
If you're in your home town, and stop by the Golder Corral, that server barely if it all deserves 10%. [...] If you want, I can post links saying a standard brake job should run $XX.XX but if you are driving a Ferrari, I don't think that applies. The same goes for what is many, a once in a life time meal.
The servers at Disney buffets are already earning a premium tip over those at Golden Corral -- roughly 2-3 times as much -- just by virtue of the fact that Disney buffets cost 2-3 times as much as at Golden Corral. That's at the same tip percentage. But we've been through all this before, and you seem either incapable of grasping that concept or just stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it.

David
 
You missed the point of my example. I'm not claiming hardship for the guest. I'm pointing out one of the primary ways in which a guest at a Disney buffet receives less service from their server than a guest at a non-buffet TS restaurant receives.

I got your point. I just don't happen to agree. In my earlier post, I explained why.

Yes, and it's a pretty obvious one. I'd try to dumb it down a bit, but I'm pretty sure you understood it as written and are only being argumentative now.

Sorry, but I don't agree that your examples equate. I also don't think I'm the one being argumentative. I stated my feelings on the matter & how I came to that conclusion. It's not my responsibility to convince everyone else to see things my way.
 
I have run restaurants here in London for the past twenty years and I know that it is not the same as "Disney" but the principle applies all the same. I have managed two types of restaurant, First style where you went to the bar/servery ordered your food, told them your table number and sat down. This food was brought to your table and if you wanted a dessert/coffee you had to go back and order it. Second style was full table service where you sat down and everything was done for you. The waiting team/servers earned much less tips for the first style than they did in the second style and the reason? The guest was not getting the same level of service. I would not expect to tip the same money in a buffet restaurant than I would in a full service restaurant. I can not except than because I chose to eat in a Disney restaurant I would have too. Does this mean I have to tip the counter service staff too simply because they are in Disney?
 
There are a few threads on the DIS about tipping at buffets vs. other TS restaurants:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1543129&referrerid=&highlight=buffet+tipping
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1491039&referrerid=&highlight=buffet+tipping

You will find varied responses. Some people tip the same no matter what. Others tip around 10% at buffets vs. higher at full-service restaurants.

Looks like this thread is pretty much like most of the others.

Since it's been brought up, I forgot to add that there are also some people who think that WDW is somehow *special* and that the normal tipping customs don't apply there. Don't believe them. Sometimes those who advocate high tips work as watiers and date WDW waitresses.

But we've been through all this before, and you seem either incapable of grasping that concept or just stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it.
:thumbsup2

Seems like the later to me...
 
I got your point. I just don't happen to agree. In my earlier post, I explained why.
Funny, I didn't see anything that explained how the food got from the buffet line to the table without the guest doing it. Again, this isn't a question of how much "work" the server does. There's a difference between being just as busy as the server in a non-buffet restaurant and providing an equal amount of service to the guest as the server in a non-buffet restaurant. I, the guest, can easily distinguish between the two. In one case all of my needs are met by the server, and in the other case I'm doing half of the server's job myself.

I mean, come on... I know you're intelligent enough to understand the distinction. But just for giggles, I'll make one more attempt...

If I were the manager of a restaurant, and I was attempting to determine how much work the servers were doing, I might (hypothetically) agree that a buffet server does an equal amount to a non-buffet server. However -- and this is a key distinction -- I would also recognize that it is not equal to the guest. The non-buffet server actually, you know... serves meals to the guests. The guests aren't doing that "job."

Note too that buffet servers are assigned more tables per shift than non-buffet servers. Why is that? Because in reality they don't have to spend as much time per table as the non-buffet servers. So I'm certainly not crying for the "poor" buffet servers who "only" get 10%.
Sorry, but I don't agree that your examples equate.
If you don't think it's a valid analogy, explain why. A rotfl smilie is not a valid counterpoint.

David
 
Let me just reiterate what another poster mentioned above. Minimum wage for servers is SIGNIFICANTLY LESS than min. wage in other fields. I don't know the exact rate, but I think it's about HALF of what reg. min. wage is. They DO NOT make a living wage from their pay. It is expected that they will make enough from tips to pay rent, buy groceries, make car payments, etc. That's just the way it is in this country. I never worked in the food industry, but my DH did when he was in high school. He always leaves 20% tip. If the service is not as good, he'll leave 15%. This is what these people have to live off of. It's just really sad that people are trying to find ways to keep them from earning a decent living - both Disney and guests are guilty in this. Heck, even out in the real world - people just don't get it that these servers live off of their TIPS NOT THEIR WAGES!
 
This is what these people have to live off of. It's just really sad that people are trying to find ways to keep them from earning a decent living - both Disney and guests are guilty in this. Heck, even out in the real world - people just don't get it that these servers live off of their TIPS NOT THEIR WAGES!
I understand this.

However, there are two problems with your comments. The first is that you're assuming that Disney servers can't earn a "decent living" on 10% tips. This is false, as I'll explain below. The second problem is that people keep trying to tie a percentage to it, totally ignoring the more pertinent questions of tables per shift and cost per meal.

Ask any server whether they'd rather earn 10% tips forever at a Disney buffet restaurant, or 20% tips forever at (let's pick a favorite example people keep bringing up on these threads) Golden Corral. Hmmm... what'cha gonna pick? Why, 10% at Disney, natch! The Disney restaurants are almost always filled with diners and the average price of a meal is nearly triple that at Golden Corral.

David
 
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