Public school system- not happy

[Coconut36]

My oldest (2nd grade) has a Reading Test, Vocabulary test and Spelling test weekly. Every other week or so (depends on when they finish a unit in math) he has a math test. Also every few weeks he has a science or social studies test depending on what they are focused on at the time. I fail to see an issue with them testing them to determine how well they are doing and if they are retaining the knowledge. I also know once a month they take a timed math test to skill build as well. You know..schools are darned if they do and darned if they don't. If they test it's too much, if they don't they are not monitoring progress. I don't find what my child is doing that horribly far off from what I remember. I remember regular spelling tests, math tests and reading/vocab tests as well

To me there is a distinct difference between a standardized test and a regular test to determine comprehension of a given unit/subject/topic (like math tests, spelling tests..etc) that was taught in class. Not a fan of standardized tests to determine how well a child is doing or how effective a teacher is but have no issue with a classwork content based test to determine retention/understanding.

And yes they assess regularly without tests but test are documented proof of how the child is doing that can be shown/discussed with a parent or the child as necessary/appropriate. Teachers are also often required to demonstrate a certain skillset in their students at a given time and can not do that without tests scores.

 

[Bungle]

Are these standardized tests or things like spelling and math test? To me it makes a huge difference. My son is in middle school but averages about 4 test a week. Test taking is a large part of education so I think its a skill that is best taught early.

 

[MrsJackSparrow4Life]

you obviously need to move to Minnesota

 

[lajones81]

Many here know what I think about public school systems, based on my own experiences. I will leave it at that. I have homeschooled my son for several years now. He will never step foot in the public school here ever again.

That said, I do believe that what you are noticing is, in fact, related to NCLB, 'standards', etc.

When my son started first grade, I too, was almost in shock at the demands and expectations, the curriculums used (especially math), etc....

I have heard comments from educators that all but implied that this is a factor.

Of course, all states do have their own separate Department of Education and specific standards. But, I think that it is safe to say that what you are seeing is nationwide to some degree or another.

The Common Core Standards will (hopefully!) eliminate that problem.

http://www.corestandards.org/

 

[Jedana]

Welcome to the 2nd crappiest School System I have ever seen. Vegas had worse--in 6th grade, DD2 spent 6 weeks (yes I said 6 WEEKS) learning how to take a standardized test.

Not learning things on the test, not learning what could possibly be on the test...just taking the test. Everything from pencils and writing your name in the line correctly (1 week) to filling in the dots correctly (2 weeks).


With that said, DS is in 2nd grade, and I love the new school (and school district!). His school does not tolerate the "moms"--you know who I mean. The moms (and yes, they seem to be all females) that think the rules don't apply to them. I really love the maintenance guy--there are 2 (1 mile long) entrance lanes into the school--one goes right into the parking lot for parents; the other runs straight into the bus/daycare area. Parents try to go straight and then turn into the EXIT of the parking area. So he stands out there, midway up from the street entrance, with his little stop sign, and tells parents to turn around and go to the back of the line. Since the line backs up in 3 directions on the main street (across and both sides) it can be a long wait!

DS gets at least 4 tests a week--vocab, spelling, reading, math; plus science and social studies/geography when they finish a section. The district has done an excellent job on the whole learning to standardized tests thing--they are teaching what needs to be taught for the tests, but also adding in other things that aren't on the tests, but that just make sense to learn them at that time. (I hope I made sense there)

We're in Clay County now--it seems as those (at least at the elementary level), the administrators are very focused on what the kids need instead of what the school board wants.

 

[golfgal]

you obviously need to move to Minnesota

Yep, she probably does....


OP, what tests do they take every week??

 

[eliza61]

Okay, so I dont want to rant and rave, but I am so unhappy right now. I will sum it up by saying that we moved down to FL almost 2yr ago and have elementary age kids. We did not realize how unhappy we would be with the public school system. It is like they took the No Child Left Behind initiative and went nuts. My first grader takes 6 tests a week, every week. I will just say, I am not a fan of standardized testing and the extremes.
Any thoughts or experiences with other states public school systems??
Thanks, just wanting to vent and share info.

Jeez, if they have 6 test a week( that's more than one a day), when the heck do you have time for instruction?

Seriously. Op are they full blown test or little quizzes. when I taught math (middle school) thankfully it was before the ridiculous NCLB nonsense, I would introduce a new item and then 2 days later give a quick 7 question "quizz".

I can imagine the horror of the poor kids who stuggles with taking test.

 

[Pigeon]

We are in NY and they get tested way too much, too.

It's like having a cow and weighing it so often that you don't have time to feed it.

 

[mhsjax]

but if we test them dont we know they are learning?

YOu don't know if they are learning if we do test them. Just ask most teachers, I am in Florida. I have a relative that is a teacher, she said and I quote, about the FCAT. "I taught my little rats to run through the maze and get the cheese" Meaning they scored well on the test, but she said her kids really didn't learn that much. These kids are taught to take the test and that is about it.

This isn't about some little "snowflake" (God I hate that term, but so many people here love it) not wanting to take tests, it is about so many tests that these kids aren't learning. They drill what is on the test into your head and that is it.

OP, not all counties in Florida are like this My county is great. Most of our teachers actually teach.

 

[torinsmom]

Fortunately, people have other choices---private schools, charter schools, homeschooling.... We went the charter school route through 8th grade, but not for the same reason. I can't afford the other options, so I would just have had to accept that this was the way that district worked. The state and national gov'ts are putting lots of pressure on districts and they pass it on to the schools.

I'm a K teacher and we don't do many tests. We have a math test at the end of each unit, but it is seriously 8-10 multiple choice questions and takes 5 minutes. We have quarterly reading/writing/math assessments for all students, and more often for those below level.

The older classes 3rd-5th grade have started doing Small Goal Assessments every few weeks, which measure the concepts should have learned during that time period. In that way, teachers can plan remediation for those concepts early on vs. waiting for EOGs to come back at the end of the year and try to remediate all needed concepts for all students in a week before the retest.

I can say that informal assessment does not always work. Some kids are very good at faking, repeating what they heard other students say, etc. We have started a computer math program the kids do individually(IXL Math--we LOVE it!) and that has been a great way for me to catch those kids who aren't getting the concepts. The district wants us to do group reading, but I see the same thing there, with kids parroting what another child says. I tend to take mine out in the hall and read one on one with them, so I can get a better idea of their independent reading level.

 

[luvmy3]

Teachers informally assess things ALL THE TIME. I do NOT need to test my students to know which ones have not mastered drawing conclusions. I ask them questions, I observe who can answer it in written form. This is ridiculous to think formal assessment is the only way to tell if they have learned. The best school in St.Louis rarely assesses. Of course it is over $25,000 a year for PK, but still
Would you rather waste time testing or actually teaching? I'm not saying formal assessment does not have its place, but... we are teaching them how to take tests, not how to be thinkers. We need to teach kids how to solve problems in life and maybe we'll have a cure for cancer.

I'll add another

 

[castleview]

What kinds of tests are they? My elementary age kids are assessed over the first three weeks of school. I can't stand it because of all the documentation and silliness the teachers and kids have to endure. If they were just allowed to teach, they could see where the kids strengths and weaknesses are after a few days. Now, they take all that time and hardly know the kid after it.

Overall, though - I'm quite happy with the school. I'm in a state that has higher standards academically than NCLB. So it really ticks me off that some excellent school systems will be deemed failures because of unattainable goals. We just got a letter from the school system saying that state scores were excellent overall, but deficient in the lower socio-economic divisions and special ed division. Well, no duh!

 

[SmallWorld71]

I am a first grade special education teacher who co-teaches with another teacher in an inclusive classroom. While we ASSESS the kids all the time, they only take one actual test each week. That's just a spelling check-in on Fri. In Sept. in can take up to 1/2 and hour, by Nov. it will be about 15 min. We are constantly monitoring their progress as they work and we keep notes on each child. IME, lots of test do not help the kids learn (nor do lots of worksheets) and there are much more effective ways of assessing them than tests. (running records, DRA's, progress charts, written observations etc...) Our math curriculum does have a test at the end of each unit, so that's 10 in a year. This is what the other, non-inclusive classrooms are like as well. My third grader, at the same school, averages 1-3 tests a week (1 spelling and sometimes a reading or math one).

 

[castleview]

Fortunately, people have other choices---private schools, charter schools, homeschooling.... We went the charter school route through 8th grade, but not for the same reason. I can't afford the other options, so I would just have had to accept that this was the way that district worked. The state and national gov'ts are putting lots of pressure on districts and they pass it on to the schools.

I'm a K teacher and we don't do many tests. We have a math test at the end of each unit, but it is seriously 8-10 multiple choice questions and takes 5 minutes. We have quarterly reading/writing/math assessments for all students, and more often for those below level.

The older classes 3rd-5th grade have started doing Small Goal Assessments every few weeks, which measure the concepts should have learned during that time period. In that way, teachers can plan remediation for those concepts early on vs. waiting for EOGs to come back at the end of the year and try to remediate all needed concepts for all students in a week before the retest.

I can say that informal assessment does not always work. Some kids are very good at faking, repeating what they heard other students say, etc. We have started a computer math program the kids do individually(IXL Math--we LOVE it!) and that has been a great way for me to catch those kids who aren't getting the concepts. The district wants us to do group reading, but I see the same thing there, with kids parroting what another child says. I tend to take mine out in the hall and read one on one with them, so I can get a better idea of their independent reading level.

What gets me about the charter and magnet push lately (at least around here) is that we've made so many laws emphasizing testing, eliminating grouping kids by ability, stripping ability to discipline or suspend/expel problem students, mandating money be spent on impossible tasks, etc. that we've cut funding and time spent on electives, gym, art, music and anything that remotely involves creativity. Now, we're opening all these charter schools that are so great because they are allowed to do everything the traditional public schools are no longer permitted to. Why doesn't anyone see this irony.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

We live in SW PA. My DD (2nd grade) has a spelling test every Thursday. A reading comprehention test every Wednesday. And the dreaded timed math test every other Friday.

The spelling tests, I understand. The reading comprehention consists of the kids reading their weekly story in school as a class Monday and Tuesday and talking about it. Then DD brings her book home Tuesday night and we read it again and then she has a test about the story I'm guessing to see how much information they retain.

The every other week timed math tests annoy me. My daughter is good in math, but alot of kids in her class aren't. These tests are very stressful I feel for little kids. A big chunk of their quarterly math grade is based on these timed math tests, which I feel is ridiculous.

She has science and social studies tests once every 3 weeks or so, after they get done with a lesson.

They also have tests in gym, which I think are unfair. Some kids are just more athletic and coordinated than others.

 

[BabyTigger99]

A friend of mine, who is a teacher, posted this on Facebook this week:

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND---The Football Version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs and all MUST win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable. If after two years they have not won the championship, their footballs and equipment will be taken away UNTIL they do win the championship.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time even if they do not have the same conditions or opportunities to practice on their own. NO exceptions will be made for lack of interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities of themselves or their parents. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL!

3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability, or whose parents don't like football.

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games.

5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.

 

[agnes!]

We are in NY and they get tested way too much, too.

It's like having a cow and weighing it so often that you don't have time to feed it.

Pigeon, that is one of the most brilliant capsule assessments of the state of education in America today that I have EVER read...and I'm going to steal it!

A friend of mine, who is a teacher, posted this on Facebook this week:

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND---The Football Version

1. All teams must make the state playoffs and all MUST win the championship. If a team does not win the championship, they will be on probation until they are the champions, and coaches will be held accountable. If after two years they have not won the championship, their footballs and equipment will be taken away UNTIL they do win the championship.

2. All kids will be expected to have the same football skills at the same time even if they do not have the same conditions or opportunities to practice on their own. NO exceptions will be made for lack of interest in football, a desire to perform athletically, or genetic abilities or disabilities of themselves or their parents. ALL KIDS WILL PLAY FOOTBALL AT A PROFICIENT LEVEL!

3. Talented players will be asked to work out on their own without instruction. This is because the coaches will be using all their instructional time with the athletes who aren't interested in football, have limited athletic ability, or whose parents don't like football.

4. Games will be played year round, but statistics will only be kept in the 4th, 8th, and 11th games.

5. This will create a New Age of sports where every school is expected to have the same level of talent and all teams will reach the same minimal goals.

And all the teams will be crappy.

agnes!

 

[SpecialK]

NCLB is responsible for the increase in standardized testing, not the weekly testing that the OP is talking about.

I think this falls into the "you can't keep everybody happy" category. Teachers are constantly asked to justify the grades that are given, usually by parents who over-estimate their child's ability or performance. In the meantime, another group of parents is unhappy over the number of assessments that are given. It's a no win situation.

 

[Pigeon]

What gets me about the charter and magnet push lately (at least around here) is that we've made so many laws emphasizing testing, eliminating grouping kids by ability, stripping ability to discipline or suspend/expel problem students, mandating money be spent on impossible tasks, etc. that we've cut funding and time spent on electives, gym, art, music and anything that remotely involves creativity. Now, we're opening all these charter schools that are so great because they are allowed to do everything the traditional public schools are no longer permitted to. Why doesn't anyone see this irony.

I agree completely. In addition, even though they are exempt from most of these requirements the data doesn't support the idea that they are better than standard public schools.

As for saying people have choice to send their kids to private school or to homeschool, that certainly reeks of priviledge.

 

[NY Disney fan]

I'm not saying formal assessment does not have its place, but... we are teaching them how to take tests, not how to be thinkers. We need to teach kids how to solve problems in life and maybe we'll have a cure for cancer.

My take on it is, (I'm only talking about MY self and MY child, not in general), I believe it is my responsibility to teach my child how to solve the problems that school doesn't have time to teach them. For example: teaching them about God, compassion, teaching them how to cook and clean). Teaching them how to speak in full sentences and how to think things through. The schools just can't teach this (well not every school) So I take a lot of responsibility for educating my child and leave the hard-core skills to the school. I believe school is only one part of the eduational pie-chart. It is not the whole pie chart.