OT: DS turns 5 end of July so Kindergarten or no Kindergarten

[Aristomommy]

One reason it's allowed is that it takes a very long time to change these types of things and there are good reasons not to, particularly when you consider that for many parents, paying for an extra year of preschool is prohibitive. So what you have, in effect, is a system that benefits parents who can (and will) hold their kids back and that penalizes at least some of the kids in the same age range that will go. There's data to back this up--I'm not just pulling this out my hat. Kids who are on the older range generally do better on standardized tests, at least early on. There's some argument about whether that trend continues throughout their education.

Also, and I don't mean to be argumentative here, but a lot has changed since your kids were in school. If kindergarten was like it was when I was a kid, I'd have sent my son. But it's not.

Schools encourage holding back, because it inflates their achievement scores, at least in elementary school grades. The studies I've read though show that later on, there is little difference. Older kids level off and age appropriate kids "catch up". Just like older kids are often identified gifted in early grades because they have usually had either an extra year of exposure to letters,reading etc. If they are compared to their age group in higher grades, the scores would not be gifted, just proceeding successfully (which is fine). DD is in gifted classes with kids 1-2 years older than her which makes you wonder why these kids were held back and then put in gifted classes? That costs the schools more money than to educate them appropriately.

 

[hmacmahony]

No, my kids started at 5, turning 6, my kids have late august, and late september birthdays (with cutoff being oct 1)
So, yes, they are a year olden than they should of been when they started kindergarten, they could of gone at 4, almost 5, and we choose to send them at 5, almost 6.

What? A year older? When are their birthdays? January? I can maybe understand Sept., Oct. Nov. But anything before this is not fair to those kids that are a year younger.

I don't get the whole shy thing, either. Shy is a personality trait. My oldest daugther at 15 is shy. She did not grow out of it the year she was in k.

I didn't grow out of it until college. Thank God my mother didn't wait til I matured.

 

[Camno's Mama]

Just thought this was interesting, and helpful to the OP or anyone in the situation I am in right now.


Found it on www.kindergartenreadiness.com:

IS YOUR CHILD READY FOR KINDERGARTEN?

While many children today attend preschool and junior kindergarten programs, there is still some question as to whether many are developmentally ready to succeed in kindergarten. Here are some guidelines:

Does your child exhibit curiosity, a desire to learn new things?

Is your child willing to ask questions and ask for help?

Is your child emotionally ready to interact with other children?

Does your child have basic academic readiness? (Knows the ABCs, numbers up to 10, shapes, colors and has decent motor skills)

Can your child sit still for up to 20 minutes and focus on a subject?

Can your child understand rules and routines? Can she/he exhibit independence in picking up and putting away toys?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Just thought this was interesting, and helpful to the OP or anyone in the situation I am in right now.


Found it on www.kindergartenreadiness.com:

IS YOUR CHILD READY FOR KINDERGARTEN?

While many children today attend preschool and junior kindergarten programs, there is still some question as to whether many are developmentally ready to succeed in kindergarten. Here are some guidelines:

Does your child exhibit curiosity, a desire to learn new things?

Is your child willing to ask questions and ask for help?

Is your child emotionally ready to interact with other children?

Does your child have basic academic readiness? (Knows the ABCs, numbers up to 10, shapes, colors and has decent motor skills)

Can your child sit still for up to 20 minutes and focus on a subject?

Can your child understand rules and routines? Can she/he exhibit independence in picking up and putting away toys?

I would have to say that jus about every child that I have encountered (with the exception of those with documented delays) is ready for kindergarten if going by this. Aside from the academics, by this list my 2 year old is ready! He does know shapes and the ABC song and can do some counting. I am not trying to disparage you at all so please don't take it that I am saying that at all. I am just pointing out that if going by this list as a guide then I have yet to meet a 4/5 year old that is incapable of such feats. I think this list might be a good eye opener. JMHO.

 

[Camno's Mama]

I would have to say that jus about every child that I have encountered (with the exception of those with documented delays) is ready for kindergarten if going by this. Aside from the academics, by this list my 2 year old is ready! He does know shapes and the ABC song and can do some counting. I am not trying to disparage you at all so please don't take it that I am saying that at all. I am just pointing out that if going by this list as a guide then I have yet to meet a 4/5 year old that is incapable of such feats. I think this list might be a good eye opener. JMHO.

Interesting...I didn't see it that way. But I guess that's the point...this may be one of those agree to disagree issues.

I can't talk politics with my grandma, and in the same vein I believe I may have reached my posting limit on this thread.

You all have made interesting points, but I just don't agree with them. And I don't think anyone is going to change my mind at this point! And I'm gettin' the feeling that you feel the same way!

Good luck to all of you no matter what your decision may be!

 

[Aneille]

I don't believe in red-shirting a kid just because the parent thinks they should be, no matter the reason. I absolutely believe a teacher or other professional should also evaluate the child in question.

Like I said earlier my DD could repeat pre-k due to her b'day being end of July with a Sept 1st cut off but she will be attending K. It is not because we can't afford another year of pre-k, or that my husband and I are not well-educated, she is going because her pre-k teacher believes she is ready.

Red-shirting a kid just because the parents think they need another year is a problem for me.

If a kid is ready according to the teachers, meets the age requirement and the parents hold him back anyway, that kid is now that much MORE READY then mine.

Its not a real problem unless multiple parents all do this same thing and then you have a class filled with older kids, then my kid is at a disadvantage in the early years.

BTW in MA the child needs to be 5 before Sept 1st. So the oldest kid will turn 6 at the beginning of the school year. My child will remain 5 for the entire year. If a parent decides to redshirt an Sept/October kid by a full year the child will be turning 7 while mine just turned 5. That is a big difference.

I am sure most people do not redshirt a full year like that but even 6 months will make a difference.

 

[llori7]

My son will turn 5 the end of July. He went to preschool 2 days a week at 3 and 3 days a week at 4. Both for 1/2 day. I am trying to decide if I should send him to kindergarten in 2008 or wait a year. Academically, he is ready. He knows colors, shapes, how to write his name, counting, letters, sounds. However, he is still immature and doesn't have good self control. I am wondering if waiting that extra year will make a difference or not. I know if I send him now, there will be kids in his class that are a whole year older than him.

Anyone have a similiar experience?? Did you send him or wait?? I know I wont' regret waiting, but I don't want him to be bored if I do.

Any thoughts or suggestions....

I talked to his preschool teacher. She feels that he would benefit from another year b/c he is immature and has a lack of self control. I thought you would learn this in kindergarten b/c it is more structured and more discipline. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe keeping him back the extra year would make him more mature and gain more self control. This is such a hard decision, especially since the school we are going to send him to, if we send him, is starting to screen kids now. It is a private school, so before you get him screened, you have to pay the registration fee!! That seems unfair!!

Thank you everyone for their opinions on this. I didn't realize it would be such a heated matter, but both sides make such good arguments. That is what makes this decision so hard.

 

[MomNeedsVacay]

If you have not already read this..its a great (long) read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/magazine/03kindergarten-t.html

 

[dogluva]

One reason it's allowed is that it takes a very long time to change these types of things and there are good reasons not to, particularly when you consider that for many parents, paying for an extra year of preschool is prohibitive. So what you have, in effect, is a system that benefits parents who can (and will) hold their kids back and that penalizes at least some of the kids in the same age range that will go. There's data to back this up--I'm not just pulling this out my hat. Kids who are on the older range generally do better on standardized tests, at least early on. There's some argument about whether that trend continues throughout their education.

Also, and I don't mean to be argumentative here, but a lot has changed since your kids were in school. If kindergarten was like it was when I was a kid, I'd have sent my son. But it's not.

My children are 19 to 4. Five have been to K. all but one had the same teacher. I cannot see where it changed.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I talked to his preschool teacher. She feels that he would benefit from another year b/c he is immature and has a lack of self control. I thought you would learn this in kindergarten b/c it is more structured and more discipline. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe keeping him back the extra year would make him more mature and gain more self control. This is such a hard decision, especially since the school we are going to send him to, if we send him, is starting to screen kids now. It is a private school, so before you get him screened, you have to pay the registration fee!! That seems unfair!!

Thank you everyone for their opinions on this. I didn't realize it would be such a heated matter, but both sides make such good arguments. That is what makes this decision so hard.

2 things.

1) Pre-school is a business. They need your money to survive.
2) Almost all 5 year olds are immature and lacking self control.

 

[Tiger926]

.

 

[chrisw127]

I think that in general this discussion has been very disrespectful and I don't intend to become argumentative here. I will say however, that I think the vast majority of parents are not holding their kids back based on a "feeling" they might have that their kid isn't ready and I think it's remarkably unfair to suggest that. Personally, I'm a lawyer (although a SAHM right now). I like research and you can be assured that I put a great deal of thought into this decision.

Honestly, I would have LOVED to send my son to kindergarten this year considering that I have 11 month old twins. It would have been a terrific break, at least for me. But while I know my son is ready academically, I know he was not ready emotionally, at least not when the school year began last year. In addition, we have year-round school here. My son would have been four for the first two months of school. The legislature is trying to change the entry date for Kindergarten with this in mind, but that is a long process. Further, the vast majority of parents where I live don't send kids who are within a couple of months of the cut-off; I live in an area where parents start thinking about how to get their kids in top universities at birth so schools are very competitive. Should I choose to disadvantage my child just to make a point? Because that's what I would be doing. Finally, and this is really just relevant to our situation, no one in our house has been getting much sleep since last Februrary, when our twins were born. While I couldn't have known it then, I am so glad I didn't send him if only because the poor kid gets woken up at least once a night--he's exhausted some days.


I think all of us put a lot of thought and care into how we raise our children. Different choices do not invalidate your choices. They're just different. And for us, they work.

 

[Aneille]

I have 2 dd's that are 20 months apart. They are only 1 year apart in school.

I see the difference every day. My July birthday dd is not as socially ready for K as my Nov. bday dd.

No one is arguing that kids are not benefitting from the extra year, because of course they are. Any kid would benefit.

The problem I see is that if everyone redshirts or a majority redshirts then those that don't redshirt are at a disadvantage. Its great that the redshirt kids got to benefit but its at the cost of the others.

If States changed the age cut-off to 6 for K, parents would still redshirt. Because as Chrisw127 points out

"Further, the vast majority of parents where I live don't send kids who are within a couple of months of the cut-off; I live in an area where parents start thinking about how to get their kids in top universities at birth so schools are very competitive. Should I choose to disadvantage my child just to make a point? Because that's what I would be doing. "

So those that do follow the state guidelines are setting there kids up for a disadvantage. This is my problem with this. My child is ready for K, but now I have to think about what everyone else is doing. It will never end.

Redshirting a kid is not going to get them to Harvard but it may get them a headstart in the beginning years. Part of the problem are the top schools where they have entrance exams for 5 year old kids. Its really quite insane if you really stop to think about it. This mentally has trickled into the public school system and it does create a problem for the teachers, schools and other children.

If everyone followed the guidelines then we wouldn't have this problem. The kids that seemed ready but ended up not ready would repeat K. Teachers would be able to get a real idea of readiness, in a real school atmosphere.

I don't see a winner in this debate because I can see both sides. A big part of me wants to hold my child back, but I am not going to do it. I'm not making a point, she is ready for K according to her teachers, and I trust them. If she isn't she'll repeat K. If she repeats it will not scar her, it will not keep her off future honor rolls or out of an elite Unversity. She's 5. I can barely remember being 5. And she will not either.

In the end everyone will do what they think is best for their child, and thats a good thing, it means they are good parents. But if everyone is trying to get the next leg up then we have a problem.

 

[LisaNJ25]

We went though this with my oldest. his bday is 10/3 and the cut off than was 10/15. He started out good but than things went down hill. we ended up keeping him back in 3rd grand and it made a big difference. He is now a freshman in hs. Instead of being one of the youngest in his class he is one of the older. He will turn 18 right after he starts his senior year.

I have to go though this with all of my kids.. the other ones had end of august b-days and one is 9/1. I am all for sending them and if there seems to be a need later than i will hold them back.

 

[Oh Kay!]

First, I want to say this has been a very interesting discussion since red-shirting is not common in our neck of the wood.

A lot of posters spoke of the positives of redshirting. However, have you also considered there might be downside to it? I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to have a son who will have to spend 1+ years in high school as a legal "adult", and I can think of many hair-raising scenarios. What can I say, I have vivid imaginations, LOL.

 

[LisaNJ25]

First, I want to say this has been a very interesting discussion since red-shirting is not common in our neck of the wood.

A lot of posters spoke of the positives of redshirting. However, have you also consider there might be downside to it? I'm trying to imagine what it would be like to have a son who will have to spend 1+ years in high school as a legal "adult", and I can think of many hair-raising scenarios. What can I say, I have vivid imaginations, LOL.

That is what I am concerned about since mine will be like that. All I need some girls parents freaking out because my son is 18 and he is dating his daughter.

 

[dogluva]

That is what I am concerned about since mine will be like that. All I need some girls parents freaking out because my son is 18 and he is dating his daughter.

My son has never looked his age. He was the biggest and second to youngest in his early school days. He started to grow a beard around 13 (or shave anyway). If I had held him he would have stood out like a sore thumb even more.

He is nineteen and looks 25. He asked a girl older than him out (by six months and) she initially thought he was too old for her. He had to prove it by showing her his licence.

I did have a problem with 20 year olds in his class. Even more when he was 13 and in a freshman homeroom with 16 year olds.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

That is what I am concerned about since mine will be like that. All I need some girls parents freaking out because my son is 18 and he is dating his daughter.

Well you have to understand their side of it too.

 

[Oh Kay!]

I did have a problem with 20 year olds in his class. Even more when he was 13 and in a freshman homeroom with 16 year olds.

16 year old HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN?!? Wow, I have met 16 year old college freshman, but hs?

 

[disneywith4boys]

I have only read the last page of this thread so forgive me. I have read so many others on this same subject. Each state had a different cutoff for K. I find it so hard to believe some are as early as June and July. My pediatrician said this once and I agree, that a child should be 5 when they start K. I think all states should have a Sept 1st cutoff (unless the school year is different from the usual Sept-June). Unless a child has emotional or physical handicapps that prohibit this, I really can't believe a 5 year old cannot handle K.