New AP to include Photo Downloads?

[lockedoutlogic]

See they're only thinking of us!

spoken like the clown i would expect him to be

 

[Probles79]

Yep it's true.. might have to have a sit down with the kids once the passes run out which won't happen till august of next year... damn so they take away disney quest to add a photo pass aaaannnnddd make the passes more expensive. Half the time the photo people see you walking by and don't even bother to say hey want a picture? Which I get it why ask everyone if they want a picture taken I guess what I am saying is most people now in days would just hand our phones or cameras to the photo people and they would take the pics and wouldn't cost us a thing now it's like nope you want photo you pay now lol

 

[Probles79]

I even got an email from annual passholder news they made it sound so nice and welcoming... deep inside I sensed a disturbance in the force... once I read it and saw what was coming now I am like great now this is going to turn into a monthly car payment.

 

[Josh Hendy]

honestly…i would never give that paper a dime…

but do i really need to read the article to understand what its going to say and what the important point is?

One thing I ask myself is ... do the Disney execs really believe that kind of crÀp, the "we're in a recovery" meme?

If they're instituting these COLOSSAL (according to a rumor) price increases and it's a valid, prudent strategy to keep the parks alive and profitable by tapping into the prosperous 10 percent during what they know will be a very long and severe depression ... then I am full of (regretful) admiration for their wisdom and foresight.

But if they seriously believe that we're in a recovery, and that millions of people are actually panting for more expensive things to do on vacation, like paying a lot more to visit an amusement park, more on top of that to visit on a Saturday, paying even more to stay past 6 PM, and paying still more on top of that to sit on a bleacher to watch the fireworks ... boy are they ever stepping on a rake. Not just stepping on it, but flinging rakes all around their yard then taking a running jump at every one of them.

 

[Budshark]

One thing I ask myself is ... do the Disney execs really believe that kind of crÀp, the "we're in a recovery" meme?

If they're instituting these COLOSSAL (according to a rumor) price increases and it's a valid, prudent strategy to keep the parks alive and profitable by tapping into the prosperous 10 percent during what they know will be a very long and severe depression ... then I am full of (regretful) admiration for their wisdom and foresight.

But if they seriously believe that we're in a recovery, and that millions of people are actually panting for more expensive things to do on vacation, like paying a lot more to visit an amusement park, more on top of that to visit on a Saturday, paying even more to stay past 6 PM, and paying still more on top of that to sit on a bleacher to watch the fireworks ... boy are they ever stepping on a rake. Not just stepping on it, but flinging rakes all around their yard then taking a running jump at every one of them.

Sadly facts would say you are wrong and they are right.
MNSSHP - selling out nightly
Desert parties - ever more popular, with even more options
Slow time of the year - a relic of the past

Attendance is up and steady, add ons are profitable, and in the next 5 years Pandora, Rivers, Star Wars, and Toy Story are all opening to make sure this doesn't stop.

If I'm a betting man, I'm putting my money behind Disney and not a prediction that they somehow just now hit the limit and its going to fall apart. No offense, but there are no signs they have out priced the market. And I expect this is all in preparation of even more. If someone doesn't think demand pricing tiers are not being prepared because they expect capacity crowds the first year of Star Wars - you're sadly mistaken. They are coming. Demand Pricing, Fast Pass+, and pay to play tiers will be the norm for an ever more popular, ever more in demand Disney. I'm sure a time will come soon where staying on property, and booking park days 90 days in advance, just so you can book your fast pass+ 60 days in advance will be the only way to ensure you can get in a park that day. Oh, of course there will be the option of in park ADR or a Park Experience add-on for $79.95/person that ensures you can go into that park regardless of attendance.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

One thing I ask myself is ... do the Disney execs really believe that kind of crÀp, the "we're in a recovery" meme?

If they're instituting these COLOSSAL (according to a rumor) price increases and it's a valid, prudent strategy to keep the parks alive and profitable by tapping into the prosperous 10 percent during what they know will be a very long and severe depression ... then I am full of (regretful) admiration for their wisdom and foresight.

But if they seriously believe that we're in a recovery, and that millions of people are actually panting for more expensive things to do on vacation, like paying a lot more to visit an amusement park, more on top of that to visit on a Saturday, paying even more to stay past 6 PM, and paying still more on top of that to sit on a bleacher to watch the fireworks ... boy are they ever stepping on a rake. Not just stepping on it, but flinging rakes all around their yard then taking a running jump at every one of them.

I have to say...that might be the greatest allusion/analogy I've ever heard...high praise after my 40 year tiptoe through the minefield of sarcasm

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Sadly facts would say you are wrong and they are right.
MNSSHP - selling out nightly
Desert parties - ever more popular, with even more options
Slow time of the year - a relic of the past

Attendance is up and steady, add ons are profitable, and in the next 5 years Pandora, Rivers, Star Wars, and Toy Story are all opening to make sure this doesn't stop.

If I'm a betting man, I'm putting my money behind Disney and not a prediction that they somehow just now hit the limit and its going to fall apart. No offense, but there are no signs they have out priced the market. And I expect this is all in preparation of even more. If someone doesn't think demand pricing tiers are not being prepared because they expect capacity crowds the first year of Star Wars - you're sadly mistaken. They are coming. Demand Pricing, Fast Pass+, and pay to play tiers will be the norm for an ever more popular, ever more in demand Disney. I'm sure a time will come soon where staying on property, and booking park days 90 days in advance, just so you can book your fast pass+ 60 days in advance will be the only way to ensure you can get in a park that day. Oh, of course there will be the option of in park ADR or a Park Experience add-on for $79.95/person that ensures you can go into that park regardless of attendance.

I have to agree here...I see no signs of reduced demand...as much as I view the last 10 years of behavior of the management as scumbag crony capitalism...

What I see is the one timers just swallowing/paying the higher bill...and the frequent visitors struggling/overextending themselves to keep up...while the disgruntled decrease their consumption/fall away.

As far as the "10%" crowd...the phantom menace...we know it's there:..but it's not being expanded. Disney world is an amusement park complex...it's not lifestyles of the rich and famous. The valets at wilderness lodge aren't going to see an uptick in bentleys pulling up. Most of the 10% is just those that transitioned from the middle class semi frequent visitors from the 70s,80s, and 90s.

The error in Disney's judgement is that the 10% is going to see an influx of new members from gen X and gen y...

That is false...boomers still accumulated their wealth through traditional means - real estate and stable investing...

Now it's 100% up to bloated stock wealth...and just sit back and see where that's gonna go. 2008 is just the beginning.

But sadly...I agree. Knowing how Disney does its market research...these price increases won't slow the train one bit.

Just scan some of the "I'm glad I just renewed!" And "is memory maker included?" Responses just on these boards...

 

[soar2014]

It completely makes sense that WDW is culling the herd. You can only put so many people in a park at a time. If the trend continues they will have sell out days, and why sell at the low price when demand is so great? The population is only growing, it hasn't slowed yet, it makes complete fiscal sense.

 

[pilferk]

Oh now really-- you know that all of our income has grown to cover the 15 to 20 %-- we all should have no problem with the increase-- it's merely cost of living............... Where's the sarcasm icon?

Maybe they are culling the herd.

I don't think there's any "maybe" about it...

 

[pilferk]

For the first time in the 60 years since Disneyland opened, Walt Disney Co. is considering switching to demand-based pricing at its domestic parks, where tickets would cost less or provide added benefits on slower days and cost extra or come with more restrictions on dates when there tend to be too many people.

“We have to look at ways to spread out our attendance throughout the year so we can accommodate demand and avoid bursting at the seams,” said Walt Disney Parks and Resorts Chairman Bob Chapek.

Continuing to raise overall prices, as Disney has done well above the inflation rate for several years, wouldn’t fully solve the problem, said Mr. Chapek, as he is also seeking to raise attendance during slower times of the year. In addition, for Disney’s brand, keeping park vacations within the reach of middle-class families is important.

Maintaining the magic at its theme parks is becoming increasingly challenging for Disney amid crowds drawn by new attractions, an improving economy and the popularity of franchises like “Frozen” and “Star Wars.” Both Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla., and Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif., have posted record attendance for each of the last three fiscal years, as well as for the spring quarter that ended in June.

Gruelingly long lines and gate closures, which Disney parks sometimes have to implement on the busiest days, lead to unhappy visitors, exactly what the operators of the “Happiest Place on Earth” want to avoid.

Nikole Zivalich uses her annual pass to go to Disneyland more than 15 times a year, but has long stayed away on Saturdays, which are almost always jam-packed with visitors. Now, however, she also doesn’t go within a week of any major holiday and is wary of Sundays, Fridays and Mondays. On one recent visit Main Street was so clogged that she was funneled by security behind the scenes, where she walked by dumpsters and the plywood backs of facades.

“I remember being bummed I had to see a nonmagical part of Disneyland,” said the 28-year-old television producer.

If the company can instead keep Disneyland and Walt Disney World full but not mobbed for more of the year, that would likely benefit the bottom line, with spending on food and hotels more than making up for any ticket price reductions. In the first nine months of the fiscal year ended in September, Disney’s parks and resorts revenue grew 6% to $11.8 billion and operating income was up 16% to $2.3 billion.

IE: We want the middle class families to come...but only when WE really want them here, so they can fill in the gaps of our "slow" periods (or what we think our slow periods are/might be, year to year).

The rest of the year, when it might be more convenient for them to travel (and, thus, why the parks are more busy), they can go scratch. We'd prefer to have an upper income bracket here because they've proven they're more willing to PAY for convenience, after all...so we can tack on a whole slew of stuff...aka "ticket restrictions" that they can circumvent via paywall...and make more money.

That about cover it?

Also...the "long lines/gridlock lead to unhappy guests" line. Looks like all those folks going to town hall and saying "DO YOU KNOW WHAT WE PAID TO BE HERE TODAY??!! AND WE CAN'T RIDE ANYTHING" are finally going to get what they wanted. Of course, THEY are equally as likely (maybe more?) to be the ones effected/priced out of those days, but...hey...

 

[crazy4wdw]

Did Disneyland and Disney World Go Too Far?
Theme-park prices are heading sharply higher for annual pass holders. Greed could be the new e-ticket.

From the Motley Fool:

It's not just the rubber band holding mouse ears in place that's testing the elasticity of Disney (NYSEIS) fans. The undisputed champ in family entertainment stunned the theme park industry on Sunday by dramatically hiking the rates of annual passes to its stateside theme parks.

The most expensive annual pass at California's Disneyland resort soared 35% to $1,049. Disney World annual passes are also moving sharply higher, though not as dramatically as we're seeing on the West Coast.

You will also have to pay more for your car to visit the House of Mouse. Parking rates went up by a buck in California and $3 at Florida's four theme parks.

Foodies are also flinching, as Tables In Wonderland -- a plan where members receive discounts at Disney World resort restaurants and access to high-end dining events -- is seeing its subscription climbing 50% to $150 a year.

Disney isn't just raising prices. It's trying to sweeten the pot by offering pass holders free digital downloads of all of the photos taken on rides and by staff photographers throughout the park. However, that's a perk that may seem hollow to annual pass holders since regulars aren't likely to be active buyers of snapshots or souvenirs.

The timing of the move is curious, particularly in Florida where Disney is doing more subtraction than addition. Disney's Hollywood Studios -- its least visited theme park in Florida -- is a shell of what it used to be, and it will be a couple of years before exciting additions go live. Universal Studios -- Disney's closest theme-park rival -- is closing the attendance gap. In a few months, Disney will close Disney Quest, a five-story arcade that was included in its premium annual passes.

Disney is going to be so much better in a few years than it is now, but why not wait until then to increase the ransom-note demands? Jacking up prices on its most devoted fans now -- as construction cranes toil away at Animal Kingdom's long overdue Avatar expansion while Pixar- and Star Wars-themed lands are still on the drawing board for Disney's Hollywood Studios -- is dangerous.

It's a gamble that will naturally pay off nicely for investors if patrons flinch and renew at the higher rates. With the economy humming along and gas prices low, maybe the promises of eventual improvements will be enough to keep park-goers close. If so, nearly every incremental penny in Sunday's increase will make it all the way down to the pre-tax bottom line. But if that's not the way things pan out and turnstile clicks start going the wrong way, it will be a rare blunder of the Bob Iger era. Greed has a funny way of testing pricing elasticity at the worst possible time.

 

[Josh Hendy]

It's a gamble that will naturally pay off nicely for investors if patrons flinch and renew at the higher rates. With the economy humming along and gas prices low, maybe the promises of eventual improvements will be enough to keep park-goers close. If so, nearly every incremental penny in Sunday's increase will make it all the way down to the pre-tax bottom line. But if that's not the way things pan out and turnstile clicks start going the wrong way, it will be a rare blunder of the Bob Iger era. Greed has a funny way of testing pricing elasticity at the worst possible time.

You can't have it both ways. If the economy is "humming" then go ahead and crank up the prices to da moon, everyone has a lot more money to spend and you'd be a fool not to help them get rid of it.

If the humming sound is really the prolonged beeeeep of cardiac arrest on the operating table of the money wizards, then, yeah, there's not much snap left in Disney's undergarments.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It completely makes sense that WDW is culling the herd. You can only put so many people in a park at a time. If the trend continues they will have sell out days, and why sell at the low price when demand is so great? The population is only growing, it hasn't slowed yet, it makes complete fiscal sense.

That's also a convenient way of providing a "controlled" crowd level so as not to have to put more investment in prudent expansions, rehabs, and upgrades.

I think with the latest trend of limited reinvestment in parks (wdw...can't laud more for China...or care less)...that the management simply doesn't want to run parks the Disney way anymore. And that is more than nostalgia...it was a quality formula that will be longed for when the profiteers take it too far.

Sadly...that company needs a lion...and the last true one went out taking Eisner with him...then passed. No ties to the can do spirit and the quality foundation remains and it's really starting to show. Just a fool's take...

 

[JenniferinFL]

Maybe they are culling the herd.

This. ^

It's been so crowded at the parks. We haven't used our passes anywhere near as much this year as we have in previous years. It's packed out and frustrating. It's gotten to the point where it's really making it a challenge to have a positive experience. There have been points in the afternoon where it's taken us half an hour to buy a water and use a restroom because of lines.

I'm sad to see the price hike, but, it had to happen. Glad that at least now the cheaper Florida resident passes include free parking. Free parking is the whole reason we ended up with the regular annual pass. For a couple years, we had the ones with blackout dates. But, we upgraded when we realized that in just a few trips parking ate up any savings. Wish we could go back to the blackout date pass, but, those dates are when the spouse and I both have time off. Ugh..

I bought memory maker twice in the last year. We had out of town family going with us and I wanted everyone to be able to get photos throughout the park. So, I'm one of those very few people who will break even or even save money with it's inclusion. Even so, I am really tempted to step down to a more basic pass with blackout days. Now that parking is included in all of them, it may be worth it to step down. Oh well, I have until January to make that decision.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Did Disneyland and Disney World Go Too Far?
Theme-park prices are heading sharply higher for annual pass holders. Greed could be the new e-ticket.

From the Motley Fool:

It's not just the rubber band holding mouse ears in place that's testing the elasticity of Disney (NYSEIS) fans. The undisputed champ in family entertainment stunned the theme park industry on Sunday by dramatically hiking the rates of annual passes to its stateside theme parks.

The most expensive annual pass at California's Disneyland resort soared 35% to $1,049. Disney World annual passes are also moving sharply higher, though not as dramatically as we're seeing on the West Coast.

You will also have to pay more for your car to visit the House of Mouse. Parking rates went up by a buck in California and $3 at Florida's four theme parks.

Foodies are also flinching, as Tables In Wonderland -- a plan where members receive discounts at Disney World resort restaurants and access to high-end dining events -- is seeing its subscription climbing 50% to $150 a year.

Disney isn't just raising prices. It's trying to sweeten the pot by offering pass holders free digital downloads of all of the photos taken on rides and by staff photographers throughout the park. However, that's a perk that may seem hollow to annual pass holders since regulars aren't likely to be active buyers of snapshots or souvenirs.

The timing of the move is curious, particularly in Florida where Disney is doing more subtraction than addition. Disney's Hollywood Studios -- its least visited theme park in Florida -- is a shell of what it used to be, and it will be a couple of years before exciting additions go live. Universal Studios -- Disney's closest theme-park rival -- is closing the attendance gap. In a few months, Disney will close Disney Quest, a five-story arcade that was included in its premium annual passes.

Disney is going to be so much better in a few years than it is now, but why not wait until then to increase the ransom-note demands? Jacking up prices on its most devoted fans now -- as construction cranes toil away at Animal Kingdom's long overdue Avatar expansion while Pixar- and Star Wars-themed lands are still on the drawing board for Disney's Hollywood Studios -- is dangerous.

It's a gamble that will naturally pay off nicely for investors if patrons flinch and renew at the higher rates. With the economy humming along and gas prices low, maybe the promises of eventual improvements will be enough to keep park-goers close. If so, nearly every incremental penny in Sunday's increase will make it all the way down to the pre-tax bottom line. But if that's not the way things pan out and turnstile clicks start going the wrong way, it will be a rare blunder of the Bob Iger era. Greed has a funny way of testing pricing elasticity at the worst possible time.

Bless the heart of whoever puts together the motley fool...

They have been calling bs on all the moves of the Iger regime for 10 years...In way they are the Canaries in the coal mine...

But alas nobody cares. Investors have been drunk off dividends...Walmart shoppers "ain't not shoppin at Walmart"...one time visitors don't care...and as we've seen here - frequent visitors spin a web of convenient self justifications more adeptly than a black widow after mating season...

Nobody's listening. But I always like how they basically cut it to the bone...they're more right about the Disney thought patterns I think than they know. It's like Judson green is the shadow writer of something...

 

[Antasia]

I am very excited about the new AP system Disney has created. The Photopass inclusion is a GREAT perk! I also like that you can make monthly payments rather than pay it all at once! The rumor is that there will also be a tiered ticket price system coming soon as well. (Not just Annual Passes)

 

[wareagle57]

I am very excited about the new AP system Disney has created. The Photopass inclusion is a GREAT perk! I also like that you can make monthly payments rather than pay it all at once! The rumor is that there will also be a tiered ticket price system coming soon as well. (Not just Annual Passes)

Sorry, I'm just not sure I can wrap my head around why you like this. The Photopass inclusion IS nice, but at a 100 dollar price hike, that pays for 2/3 of what it would cost to purchase outright anyway. If you have more than you in your family, then your 2 season passes MORE than pay for the Memory Maker with the extra money Disney is getting from you. As for the monthly payment plan, that was always available to Florida residents, and it was my understanding that's still the only people who get the monthly payment option. Maybe DVC?

 

[Spacedog1975]

Which is more likely:
1) Disney adds photopass to annual pass, decides to raise the price.
2) Disney raises the price of the annual pass, decides to add photopass to enhance value/sell the increase.

I think 2 is far more likely than 1. They could have just as easily made the price change without adding any features. I'm not a fan of the price increase and will be reconsidering my AP status, but I think it's crazy to think that the photopass inclusion changed the price.

 

[Eoghann]

Which is more likely:
1) Disney adds photopass to annual pass, decides to raise the price.
2) Disney raises the price of the annual pass, decides to add photopass to enhance value/sell the increase.

I think 2 is far more likely than 1. They could have just as easily made the price change without adding any features. I'm not a fan of the price increase and will be reconsidering my AP status, but I think it's crazy to think that the photopass inclusion changed the price.

But it changes the calculation for the value of the pass because not everyone wants photopass and I think the AP holders are the least likely to want it. Disney has removed choice.

We got Memory Maker last trip and it worked out well for us. You have to get a lot of photos to make it work, but it's not that hard to do if everyone in the party gets in on it. However, if I was going multiple times a year... how many photos of me in front of the castle do I actually need?

 

[Spoony Bard]

I think this is the largest step to date (although not the first step) in Disney's attempt to cull out the locals... as evidenced by the fact that the prices for the Disneyland annual pass have skyrocketed exponentially.

If you consider the park attractions and tickets to be loss-leaders, then this makes perfect sense. Most locals don't drop money into the properties in any similar capacity to non-locals. Locals aren't staying on property, filling rooms - they're not eating at the restaurants, and they're probably certainly not buying much merchandise. In other words, locals consume low-margin goods and services, while those coming on vacation are consuming the high-margin goods and services.

At some point, I wonder if Disney will just do away with the concept of annual passes altogether, or will only make them available to DVC members.

Speaking of DVC - I've often thought that it would be a great idea for Disney to give away a single free annual pass to its NEW DVC members - one pass for every 100 points purchased, and that pass would stay valid for the length of the DVC contract. It would certainly offer a premium above what DVC resellers are currently offering.

In any event, I think the intention here is pretty clear - to weed out those who don't consume high profit margin goods and services... and locals just don't do that. From an economics standpoint, Disney probably isn't making much, if any, profit on them, with the extra staffing that they need to employ. If Disney is indeed trying to provide their "high value" guests with a better experience, weeding out the locals will make the parks less crowded, and will provide a better overall experience to the "high value" guests.