Heads up for plan fudgers in 2007

[NMW]

They did, do, and will. The difference effective Monday is that now the system programming will be able to track the usage and prevent abuse.

If and when adult/child credits are separated, there is no reason that a party of 2A/2C couldn't order 2 C cs breakfasts and then 2 A cs lunches to share among the party. Right?? That's using "my" credits as I see fit- that scenario works for my travel party. What about if I chose to use 3 adult CS credits at a time?? As long as I don't go over my travel's alloted adult CS credits, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

The only problem I could see with what you've said is the using 3 adult CS credits at one time if you only have 2 adults listed on your card. Even though you are not "cheating", some people have posted that CM's at CS places have looked at their card and told them that they can only order what their card states-2A/2C. I don't see why a family couldn't split up and order that way. I mean, you would still have whatever Adult and child credits that you didn't use left. If that family did that every day, eventually, they would ONLY have child CS credits left to use. And, if the receipts show number of Adult/child credits for both TS and CS that a family has remaining...at least a family would know that "hey, we only have 6 Adult CS credits left, let's order a couple Child CS meals today." Maybe Buffalogirl can clarify that?

Either way, the new software goes into effect Jan 1. I'm sure lots of people will give their accounts. It's funny it only seems like people are concerned with CS meals. Maybe because the kids choices are well, let's face it, not that appealing at most CS places.

 

[bicker]

If and when adult/child credits are separated, there is no reason that a party of 2A/2C couldn't order 2 C cs breakfasts and then 2 A cs lunches to share among the party. Right?? That's using "my" credits as I see fit- that scenario works for my travel party. What about if I chose to use 3 adult CS credits at a time?? As long as I don't go over my travel's alloted adult CS credits, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

This confusion perhaps stems from the fact that there were two common abuses of the Dining Plan: (1) Using child meal entitlements for adult meals, and (2) using Dining Plan credits for meals for guests who aren't on the Dining Plan. For (1), the changes would seek to apply enforcement on a entire-vacation basis. For (2), the changes would seek to apply enforcement on a meal-by-meal basis. Neither of these exploits were ever permitted, but it is actually still an open question which of these two the new system changes is aimed at preventing. My guess is both.

 

[DCDisney]

We go this week so I'll report back but in terms of my plans I planned accordingly. We are eating at Pizza Planet which doesn't have a kids menu. We are eating at Wolfgang Puck Express which has a kids menu my kids like. For the other meals we are planning to do a few breakfasts where all 4 of us will have kids meals so we will have enough adult credits for the QS places that don't have kids foods we want. I have no problem going through the line twice and we have grandparents going as well for part of the trip so they can always order for the kids.

I'm still not thrilled by many of the kids choices in TS and QS but it will be fine and next year we are planning a California vacation with 2 days at DL (and 8 days elsewhere) rather than returning to WDW in big part due to the dining drama.

Yvonne

 

[jensen]

We go this week so I'll report back but in terms of my plans I planned accordingly. We are eating at Pizza Planet which doesn't have a kids menu. We are eating at Wolfgang Puck Express which has a kids menu my kids like. For the other meals we are planning to do a few breakfasts where all 4 of us will have kids meals so we will have enough adult credits for the QS places that don't have kids foods we want. I have no problem going through the line twice and we have grandparents going as well for part of the trip so they can always order for the kids.

I'm still not thrilled by many of the kids choices in TS and QS but it will be fine and next year we are planning a California vacation with 2 days at DL (and 8 days elsewhere) rather than returning to WDW in big part due to the dining drama.

Yvonne

Yvonne,

I'm anxious to hear your report to see if Pizza Planet continues without a kids menu. It appears to me they are the only CS place on the plan that doesn't have a kids menu and I would expect them to start offering PB&J or a hot dog for kids starting next month just so people cannot order pizza for the kids.

 

[BuffaloGal]

BuffaloGal: Could you try to confirm something about this? Is this restriction going to be applied "per meal", "for the full total of credits" or both?

That part is a bit cloudy. Until the adult vs. child thing is completely debugged and operational, I'd expect to see strict per meal application on all levels of the plan. After the adult vs. child thing is running without a hitch, they may or may not relax on the counter service thing, but not on the TS thing. We are being told that we will be disciplined for allowing any fudging at all (more than card states for each entity). They will be auditing us. And Chef did say something about a meal period limit, so they might be working on that in the system too. The biggie is that, as of the 1st, a CM could in trouble (all the way up to termination, depending on the number of offenses or status of their record card)for allowing abuses and the other stuff will be kicking in (separation of credits, possible meal period limits) ASAP.

 

[bicker]

Well, my curiousity was a bit more specific than that: Is it clear that the changes will be counting number of adult meals? If you have 2A2C for five nights, will the system prevent covering of the 11th adult TS meal? When servers enter Dining Plan meals, will they enter the number of adult credits used separately from the number of child credits used?

Or is Disney still going to be relying on each individual guests' integrity with regard to compliance with that rule?

I suppose we'll know more, for sure, within the next week.

 

[Alice28]

Well, my curiousity was a bit more specific than that: Is it clear that the changes will be counting number of adult meals? If you have 2A2C for five nights, will the system prevent covering of the 11th adult TS meal? When servers enter Dining Plan meals, will they enter the number of adult credits used separately from the number of child credits used?

Or is Disney still going to be relying on each individual guests' integrity with regard to compliance with that rule?

I suppose we'll know more, for sure, within the next week.

I am curious about this as well.

 

[patsal]

SO, am I correct in thinking that this is only a Disney measure to prevent the obvious abuses? It makes sense that kids meal credits are for kids and adult meal credits for adults based on the prices of the plan.It also makes sense that it is intended only for those who purchse the plan. For me all of us are adults with DD 11 and DS 15, so for clarification, can I still plan on signature dining one night for 8TS credits while I have 2 CS meals perhaps the next day using 3 CS credits for lunch and 3CS for dinner? I guess my question is are they just trying to eliminate abuse which doesn't have an effect on me or will I be getting a plan with less flexibility which does effect me?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Disney likes you, patsal - you obviously know how the DDP works

Extreme example, but I think the programming changes are to prevent things like a party of two who are staying for five nights from treating eight friends to dinner one night (or two friends two nights, or any other combination).

Two adult credits = two adult dinners (or one Signature dinner or dinner show). Period.

 

[patsal]

Disney likes you, patsal - you obviously know how the DDP works

Extreme example, but I think the programming changes are to prevent things like a party of two who are staying for five nights from treating eight friends to dinner one night (or two friends two nights, or any other combination).

Two adult credits = two adult dinners (or one Signature dinner or dinner show). Period.

That's is what I was hoping for, for my own sanity . I just finished blocking out the where and when associated with ADR's and really didn't want to have to start over!

 

[Twende]

I can certainly understand the wrongness of getting an adult meal when you paid a child's price. That should be easy to correct and I have no problem with that at all.

What gets me is the only allowing the number of people on the plan to eat a one time. There are many times over the last 6 or so trips where we have saved our credits so we can be joined by others who may or may not have any of their credits left on the plan or may not have been on a plan at that time.

I figure once I have paid for the CS/TS credits then they are mine to use any way I choose. If I want to order two TS meals and eat them all to my self then I should be allowed to do just that. If I want to have a CS dinner and save my TS to use at a family style place with who ever then it is my credit again to use as I choose.

For example I have a relative who has a SAP who loves to be at Disney. She can not be there for long periods of time as she requires more care than any one on a vacation can give. She frequently joins us for a special meal when we are there and then returns to her caretaker in the evening. Judging on how she is feeling the next day she may return to share a lunch and a few attractions.

This past trip we alloted 1 TS credit for her to eat with us a Liberty Tree. It was a birthday/Christmas meal for her and very special for all of us. We had paid for the credit in our meal plan. Now I know it says that meal plans are non-transferable but I thought that meant in it's entirety to be sold to someone else to add to their tickets. I have never thought it to mean that I can not buy someone a lunch or dinner with my credit. We had no trouble doing this but this was in December not after the first of the year.

I think that if this is enforced it will mean that the meal plan is not as flexible for our type of dining and we most likely will not use it.

That will be a shame because we have really enjoyed using the plan and having the flexibility that it allowed.

 

[JimMIA]

What gets me is the only allowing the number of people on the plan to eat a one time. There are many times over the last 6 or so trips where we have saved our credits so we can be joined by others who may or may not have any of their credits left on the plan or may not have been on a plan at that time.

I figure once I have paid for the CS/TS credits then they are mine to use any way I choose. If I want to order two TS meals and eat them all to my self then I should be allowed to do just that. If I want to have a CS dinner and save my TS to use at a family style place with who ever then it is my credit again to use as I choose.

This is a perfectly logical argument which I have also made in the past. However, I was wrong.

The simple truth is, this is Disney's Dining Plan -- not mine. If Disney says this does not fit their definition of the DDP, it's not allowed. Period.

We can argue "woulda done, shoulda done, coulda done" all we want, but the plain fact is treating others has never been permissible under the DDP. Sure people have gotten away with it, but it's never been a permissible use of the plan.

I think that if this is enforced it will mean that the meal plan is not as flexible for our type of dining and we most likely will not use it.

I agree.

But I think Disney is VERY well aware of the fact that they are limiting the "flexibility," and that doing so will cause some dropoff in the number of families who use DDP. While it may indeed be a "shame" for some families, I'm sure Disney isn't shedding any tears over this issue. In fact, I'd bet Disney is looking forward to losing some DDP customers.

DDP never was intended to meet the individual dining needs of every WDW visitor. There are all sorts of other discount programs to enjoy more economical trips to WDW, and many former DDP patrons will now take advantage of other plans which suit their personal needs better. Or, they'll use DDP as Disney now defines and enforces it...whichever works better for their family.

 

[jjohnson]

That part is a bit cloudy. Until the adult vs. child thing is completely debugged and operational, I'd expect to see strict per meal application on all levels of the plan. After the adult vs. child thing is running without a hitch, they may or may not relax on the counter service thing, but not on the TS thing. We are being told that we will be disciplined for allowing any fudging at all (more than card states for each entity). They will be auditing us. And Chef did say something about a meal period limit, so they might be working on that in the system too. The biggie is that, as of the 1st, a CM could in trouble (all the way up to termination, depending on the number of offenses or status of their record card)for allowing abuses and the other stuff will be kicking in (separation of credits, possible meal period limits) ASAP.

Could you please tell me the meaning of "meal period limit"? I'm at a lose trying to define it for myself.

 

[DCDisney]

That part is a bit cloudy. Until the adult vs. child thing is completely debugged and operational, I'd expect to see strict per meal application on all levels of the plan. After the adult vs. child thing is running without a hitch, they may or may not relax on the counter service thing, but not on the TS thing. .

I can totally understand the TS thing as the plan isn't transferable so you can't have more people than your card says per meal. The whole meal period thing could be a problem. I can see where someone conceivably have a late lunch at 3 which is technically a dinner in some places and then a late dinner elsewhere at 9 which would both be in the same meal period. It sounds like they are putting it all on the CMs to police which seems like it will be very difficult on the CMs.

In terms of CS doing the whole meal period thing would be a total nightmare. Lots of people eat around World Showcase. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner hours would have to be set. The brochure would have to be changed to reflect not being allowed to use credits as you wish. Just changing the credits to adult and child seems like it would "fix" things without causing a zillion issues like the setting meal periods would for CS.

Yvonne

 

[jjohnson]

I can totally understand the TS thing as the plan isn't transferable so you can't have more people than your card says per meal. The whole meal period thing could be a problem. I can see where someone conceivably have a late lunch at 3 which is technically a dinner in some places and then a late dinner elsewhere at 9 which would both be in the same meal period. It sounds like they are putting it all on the CMs to police which seems like it will be very difficult on the CMs.

In terms of CS doing the whole meal period thing would be a total nightmare. Lots of people eat around World Showcase. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner hours would have to be set. The brochure would have to be changed to reflect not being allowed to use credits as you wish. Just changing the credits to adult and child seems like it would "fix" things without causing a zillion issues like the setting meal periods would for CS.

Yvonne

Ok...the "light bulb" went on. We'll I do not like this at all. That would completely take away the flexibility of using your credits throughout the day.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

Why can't they just scan each resort I.D. instead of one? For instance, you go up to a CS restaurant and order four adult meals...you would need to provide four I.D.'s for scanning or the system only credits whatever meals you provide a card for and the individual ordering is charged for the balance. As an example, if you ordered four adult entrees but provided two adult/two child resort I.D.'s, only two of the entrees would be credited and it would show a balance owed for the other two. To me, it just seems like many of the abuses involving the in's and out's of the DDP result from the credits being pooled instead of separated on individual resort I.D.'s. They don't do it with park admission, so why do they do it with meals?

 

[ksloane]

I like this idea. Seems much simpler. I'm sure there are complications, but seems easy to me. Don't we always have everyone's ID with us anyways as lots of the restaurants are in the parks and we had to use each id to get in the park?

Why can't they just scan each resort I.D. instead of one? For instance, you go up to a CS restaurant and order four adult meals...you would need to provide four I.D.'s for scanning or the system only credits whatever meals you provide a card for and the individual ordering is charged for the balance. As an example, if you ordered four adult entrees but provided two adult/two child resort I.D.'s, only two of the entrees would be credited and it would show a balance owed for the other two. To me, it just seems like many of the abuses involving the in's and out's of the DDP result from the credits being pooled instead of separated on individual resort I.D.'s. They don't do it with park admission, so why do they do it with meals?

 

[disneyjunkie]

I like this idea. Seems much simpler. I'm sure there are complications, but seems easy to me. Don't we always have everyone's ID with us anyways as lots of the restaurants are in the parks and we had to use each id to get in the park?

Not if you only purchase a one day base ticket with your package.

 

[Sammie]

SO, am I correct in thinking that this is only a Disney measure to prevent the obvious abuses? It makes sense that kids meal credits are for kids and adult meal credits for adults based on the prices of the plan.It also makes sense that it is intended only for those who purchse the plan. For me all of us are adults with DD 11 and DS 15, so for clarification, can I still plan on signature dining one night for 8TS credits while I have 2 CS meals perhaps the next day using 3 CS credits for lunch and 3CS for dinner? I guess my question is are they just trying to eliminate abuse which doesn't have an effect on me or will I be getting a plan with less flexibility which does effect me?

I guess only time will tell. I do know what it is they want stopped and I posted this time and time again until I got tried of the comments, "If Disney cared they would stop it, etc". Well they did care, and they are stopping it.

They want to stop child credit's to purchase adult meals.
They want to stop the feeding of non participants with the plan. If you buy a plan for Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith and 2 kids, you can not feed your cousin who is staying at the Day's Inn in Kissimmee on this plan. As to why does it matter, the cousin is not staying at Disney and not paying rack rate for a room that's why. The savings on the meals is off set by room rates, tickets etc.
They want to stop people from sharing meals. If you have a plan for one table service and one counter service per day per person, they don't want you stretching it out. That over crowds the restaurants.

Only time will tell if some of us who tried to use it as intended will suffer for the abuses of others. Sadly probably so.

 

[bicker]

That's really what I worry about... that they're going to implement enforcement to curb some abuses, but because enforcement is not a "fine instrument" it will also prevent some uses of the Dining Plan that were previously okay, like having lunch at 11AM and dinner at 3PM (just for example). Short of installing finger scanners in each restaurant (and splitting Dining Plan credits onto each room key), I'm not sure how else they can enforce the non-transferability of the Dining Plan without applying arbitrary time limits like that, though.