Gators at resorts...facts and wise tips

[Yarbogash]

Not being from FL, if I see a sign that simply says "No swimming" I'm thinking, in the water up to your chest kind of no swimming. Letting my toddler splash around in very shallow water is not swimming to me, therefore I wouldn't be 'ignoring' the signs. Even riptides can't grab you unless the water is at least knee deep.

If I saw a sign that said, "WARNING, ALLIGATORS" I'd be a LOT more weary about letting my toddler play.

And while yes, Commin sense says there are gators in FL, I would've thought Disney would take precautions to keep them away (Gates at the waterway openings, etc) and I would not necessarily be thinking I needed to watch for them at my Disney owned resort. Not that they are responsible I'm not saying that, I'm just saying I would not have thought of that if I wasn't living there.

I agree with all of that except for the very last bit. I am frankly amazed that Disney built those hotels, built the waterways and put those beaches there without being sure they could keep away gators. I remember being at the Poly and being told by staff we could splash in the lagoon but no swimming. We still didn't go in at all but that's what we were told and no sign or person ever mentioned gators. I always assumed that Disney built all this this way because they were confident the area could be kept gator free. Imho this is a massive fail on Disney's part.

 

[Yarbogash]

I wish the moderator would shut this thread down. People are so unkind to each other!

It's not gonna be an easy discussion but I think this is a discussion worth having. I expect my post above will get some negative replies but that's fine. If there's ever any topic on this board worthy of a little vitriol I think this is it. Best wishes all.

 

[HopperFan]

Question: Doesn't every state have something in the wild that wants to harm you? In Michigan we have snakes, bears, cougars, spiders, coyotes, all sorts of things that may do you harm. Doesn't every state or most of them? How does it not translate then that Florida would too? Or is it just that many people for some reason think Disney is able to control the environment?

YES there are dangerous wild animals in every state particularly around water. And where there is no swimming allowed .... there is a reason. Not sure how wading in lieu of swimming is somehow safer.

I wish the moderator would shut this thread down. People are so unkind to each other!

Many of the other threads have been locked and honestly I think there is no positive coming from any that are left. A horrible horrific accident happened and these parents will dwell on this every day the rest of their life. There is no reason to keep any of them open. All they are doing is bringing out the worst in many.

I agree with all of that except for the very last bit. I am frankly amazed that Disney built those hotels, built the waterways and put those beaches there without being sure they could keep away gators. I remember being at the Poly and being told by staff we could splash in the lagoon but no swimming. We still didn't go in at all but that's what we were told and no sign or person ever mentioned gators. I always assumed that Disney built all this this way because they were confident the area could be kept gator free. Imho this is a massive fail on Disney's part.

Why did any hotels get built on the beaches in this country where you "enter the ocean, enter the food chain" and why build high rise hotels where over the 7th floor you can't be reached in a fire, why build any home or anything else in Florida - a state full of poisonous bugs, snakes, gators, panthers, cougars, wicked fire ants ............?? Gators are one part of the environment and one reason why going in water other than pools is a bad idea. I do agree with you that CMs need to say it over and over to guests to not enter the water because the signs aren't working .... but you know, guests are notorious for ignoring CMs. I honestly think they need to build visual barriers to the water like many areas of CSR has because I don't think signs will work, so make it a bit more awkward.

It's not gonna be an easy discussion but I think this is a discussion worth having. I expect my post above will get some negative replies but that's fine. If there's ever any topic on this board worthy of a little vitriol I think this is it. Best wishes all.

But there really no valuable discussion happening anymore.
None.
The info needed was already shared - stay out of the water.
Nothing more needed.

Keeping these threads open is so pointless.

 

[sparklemom]

The value in this discussion isn't in deciding whether to blame these poor parents; it's in exploring the different levels of knowledge with which travelers enter the resort and understanding the varying ways that they may interpret the existing signs. I have learned a lot in the past few days, and having that information explicit and available when I was at the Poly would have enabled me to protect my small children more effectively.

 

[kreckl]

Why are people allowed to play/boat/wakeboard in this water with brain eating amoeba ( and gators) ?

 

[Yarbogash]

Why did any hotels get built on the beaches in this country where you "enter the ocean, enter the food chain" and why build high rise hotels where over the 7th floor you can't be reached in a fire, why build any home or anything else in Florida - a state full of poisonous bugs, snakes, gators, panthers, cougars, wicked fire ants ............?? Gators are one part of the environment and one reason why going in water other than pools is a bad idea. I do agree with you that CMs need to say it over and over to guests to not enter the water because the signs aren't working .... but you know, guests are notorious for ignoring CMs. I honestly think they need to build visual barriers to the water like many areas of CSR has because I don't think signs will work, so make it a bit more awkward.



But there really no valuable discussion happening anymore.
None.
The info needed was already shared - stay out of the water.
Nothing more needed.

Keeping these threads open is so pointless.

Guests are notorious for ignoring CM's? That was not the issue with us because they did not tell us to stay completely out of the water because of gators. Just the opposite. If I remember right 2 different CM's told us splashing around was ok. The needed info was not shared with us. Just the opposite.

I get that we assume certain risks when vacationing in certain locations but it strikes me as reckless or at least really odd that WDW built the waterway, hotel and the beach, which would obviously lure people to the waters edge and then while WDW struggled to control the gator population didn't tell people of the danger. WDW is not a state park. So much there is artificial and controlled that obviously most guests are not going to consider this danger a possibility. Disney could have done better.

 

[TeamH5]

I agree with all of that except for the very last bit. I am frankly amazed that Disney built those hotels, built the waterways and put those beaches there without being sure they could keep away gators. I remember being at the Poly and being told by staff we could splash in the lagoon but no swimming. We still didn't go in at all but that's what we were told and no sign or person ever mentioned gators. I always assumed that Disney built all this this way because they were confident the area could be kept gator free. Imho this is a massive fail on Disney's part.

You're right. When I first wrote my post most of the discussions hadn't really taken off yet. But reading through different opinions and points of view, I'd have to agree with you now that this was a massive fail on Disney. In trying to keep with their motto "Happiest place on Earth" they failed miserably in warning guests of the potential dangers lurking in the shadows. And while Yes, vacationers bear the responsibility of knowing the location they are touring, I wholeheartedly agree with you that Disney is not a place I'd have ever thought to have to worry about gators. Ever. Until now.

 

[oceanmarina]

You're right. When I first wrote my post most of the discussions hadn't really taken off yet. But reading through different opinions and points of view, I'd have to agree with you now that this was a massive fail on Disney. In trying to keep with their motto "Happiest place on Earth" they failed miserably in warning guests of the potential dangers lurking in the shadows. And while Yes, vacationers bear the responsibility of knowing the location they are touring, I wholeheartedly agree with you that Disney is not a place I'd have ever thought to have to worry about gators. Ever. Until now.

I would agree. This topic is being discussed on the news everywhere. The article I just read on CNN makes a good point;

While Disney had posted "no swimming" signs at the lake where the boy died, it did not have alligator warning signs, which are common around golf courses, ponds and public parks all over Florida. That has raised questions about whether the company did enough to convey the potential danger to visitors.

"They presumably know, since they have caught four or five alligators in this area, that the area has dangers that far and away exceed the danger of drowning," said Miami-based defense attorney Scott Leeds. "So this issue of posting a sign warning of swimming or no swimming doesn't adequately warn patrons of the known danger."

.... Whalen said that's what happened in 2012 after the gator appeared in the water near her kids at Disney's Caribbean Beach Resort, which is on a different lake than the one where the boy was killed.

As shocked tourists looked on, she said, trappers caught the animal and carried it away, writhing, across a pool and courtyard area outside the hotel. Disney workers threatened to confiscate the phones and cameras of anyone who tried to photograph or videotape the spectacle, she said."

Here is the link to the full article;

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/af...alligator-warnings/ar-AAh6Zl2?ocid=spartanntp

 

[k&a&c'smom]

Just saw this article on the Orlando Sentinel website: "Disney World Will Post Signs Warning of Gators"

 

[Docsknotinn]

Didn't the no swimming signs initially go up due to a fatality from the brain eating amoeba? Either way I'd not want to be in that water, splashing or other wise. Mucky yucky bottom. I'm starting to think the best response is to remove the existing beaches and create a sand beach at the pool.
As far as keeping Gators out that's easier said than done. If you take the drive on I-4 between Orlando and Daytona you'll notice there are now high fences way off the highway next to wetlands. Take a closer look next time and you will see constantine wire on top. That's because Gators will actually climb over a wire fence. IIR the fences at Kennedy are 8' tall and they still had to put razor wire on top. If you don't believe me get on your googlfu and prepare to be shocked when you see a photo of a gator hopping a fence!
The national news tonight said Disney's putting up new signs. It's clearly over due but now at least people should be aware of the danger.
People should also be aware that you do not need to be in the water for an attack to occur. Standing at the waters edge gators still will attack and there have been fatalities in Florida in this manner. Please don't get hood winked into thinking it makes an iota of difference if your in a few inches of water or standing at the waters edge. It's that very sort of false security that led to this incident. Lets remember that this sort of attack has happened on property before at Fort Wilderness in 1986 when a gator came out of the water and attacked an 8 year old.
Either way it's a sad day and TBH I really think this whole event could have been avoided with something as simple as adequate signage.

 

[k&a&c'smom]

I found this quote in an OS article from earlier this evening to be very interesting:

Excerpt from this article....
Officials on Wednesday could not identify the last gator sighting on Disney property or say how many have been extracted in recent weeks.

That's because the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, which generally responds to nuisance gator reports, gives Disney full autonomy in handling the problem and isn't often involved.

"We have an open partnership with them where they can just call a trapper or have a staffer take out the alligator," said Nick Wiley, executive director of the commission. "They take the action directly."

 

[Dave006]

I think when Disney looks back at this accident, they will see that the recent construction at the Poly: the new Bora Bora Bungalows have contributed to this accident.

There are now food sources directly over the Seven Seas lagoon. it is one thing to feed ducks and fish from the beach/shoreline but now there is further invasion into the natural habitat of the lagoon. People have been feeding the animals from the decks of the bungalows.

Gators have been around the Seven Seas Lagoon for 45 years but only recently they have become more aggressive in approaching humans.

Sure this could all be a simple coincide.

Dave

 

[tinkerbell60]

We began vacationing in Disney World back in 2004 We live in PA - and I was no expert on gators. BUT, I learned a lot from these boards - the fact that there are gators in all bodies of water in Florida, including Disney. Over the years, talking with CMs etc. we knew that the water around the Seven Seas Lagoon was filled with fuel from the watercraft, snakes and gators. I kept my kids out of the water, mostly because it was just plain gross - not to mention what might be in it. The one thing that bothered me were all the people we would see in the water at the resorts next to the signs that said no swimming. I do not differentiate between swimming and wading. I took it as "stay out of the water". Yet, I never saw CMs asking people to get out of the water either. I am so very sad for this family. Could more have been done to prevent what happened - probably. The parents will second guess themselves forever. Disney will make changes that probably should have happened long ago. But, this was an accident, just like the children who have drown in Disney pools or the boy who was killed at Ft. Wilderness while riding his bike. They were horrible accidents. There is nobody to blame, just things we can all learn.

 

[Shanti]

I'm saying you can't simply tell people not to swim and expect them to stay out of the water. Yes, it is dumbing it down to have to explain exactly why. It is very ignorant to see a sign telling you to not do something, and think it doesn't apply to you because it doesn't list out the exact reasons. Do people think Disney puts up signs just for fun? Or to try to disappoint people?

Feeling superior much?

 

[Don_Air]

I think the big cause for most of the arguing, is that some people really just can't believe some of us don't know anything about Florida wildlife. Most people do, but can't fathom that there are people who don't. As a person who doesn't, it really puts me off when someone tries to tell me I'm an idiot for not knowing. That doesn't mean we think that "Disney should be controlling all of the wildlife ". It means, "Let me know that this can happen". I've never even seen one before. (I'm in Canada), and it's the last thing I think of when I see a "no swimming" sign. I mean, don't they show movies right there on the beach?

The good news is, I just read that Disney is going to put warning signs up, so this kind of tragedy will hopefully be avoided in the future. Now that I know that this can actually happen, I will be able to take the necessary precautions.

Disney is a much larger part of the world than the actual state of Florida. I have never set foot on the Polynesian property, but just took out a small mortgage on owning DVC there. I'm taking away from this thread everything I've learned, and am happy there are actually people willing to accept that not everyone knows everything about Florida. Thank you to all the people who actually tried to inform the rest of us about the Alligator situation, without trying to put us down. I assume that was the goal of the original poster.

 

[TeamH5]

They stopped allowing swimming in the 90's, I wonder if something didn't happen to cause that decision that they just got a close hold on and didn't let leak out to the public. Whalen said they were threatens if anyone photographed or video taped the alligator incident in 2012...

 

[Don_Air]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ator-attack-signs-warning-20160616-story.html

 

[Dave006]

Why are people allowed to play/boat/wakeboard in this water with brain eating amoeba ( and gators) ?

For the same reason the people are allowed to play/boat/wakeboard in the same ocean(s) that contain poisonous water snakes and sharks or even deadly rip currents.

In Florida you are more likely to be killed by lightning or a car crash then by any of the following: a brain eating amoeba, alligator, poison snake or even a rabid rabbit or squirrel.

Dave

 

[Dave006]

The biggest issue with alligator's in Florida is that idiots insist on feeding them just like they would a duck or fish in a pond. Please note that it is against the law to feed or disturb an alligator in Florida. Most individuals don't understand that an 8 ft Gator can out run an adult over a distance of up to 100 yards.

Once an alligator associates people as a source of food, they lose their natural fear of humans and will approach looking for handouts and will also be come aggressive.

The sad news in this story is that a careless tourist is almost certainly responsible for the death of the 2 year old boy. Alligators of this size don't just approach people unless they have been conditioned to approach due to being fed over a period of time.

Dave

 

[Don_Air]

Interesting. I keep hearing the new Bungalows at the Poly might be a problem source.