Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[1234lucky]

You know, I'm thinking, in addition to the gators, the sand on those beaches can get mighty hot on a warm day. We wouldn't want anyone to burn their feet, so we should probably put a sign up....or on second thought just close the beaches entirely, to be safe.

Probably want to pull all coffee makers out of the room too, since hot coffee can lead to scalding burns, as scientists have just informed me.

Better shut off all hot water sources to the rooms too, just to be safe.

While we're at it, shut off all water so no one drowns in the tub. Can't be too careful.

You realized they have made changes because of hot water accidents. Water temperature is regulated. Hotels used to have the instant hot taps. Despite the warnings right on the tap, too many accidents occurred and so they were removed.

That's not to say Disney - or any property owner - needs to eliminate every danger. But after they have notice of an issue (even one that might have previously seemed remote like this) changes should be evaluated and considered. Cost and feasibility of the changes should be weighed against the danger and likelihood of an issue.

 

[FreeDiningFanatic]

I haven't read everything but I agree here. I'm forgetting the legal term is it 'attractive nuisance?' (any lawyers here?) For attractive nuisance, there are some places inherently dangerous that attract children (ie. a pit for building a house, construction sites, in general) Due to the attractiveness, those areas need to be protected. They have a seashore that is inviting, they don't warn about gators, they know guests are coming from ALL over the world. Is there any cautionary information about gators anywhere? It is Disney. There is an expectation of safety at Disney. It is the cream of the crop. Is it foreseeable that a young child might want to splash in a tiny bit of water? Absolutely. Wet sand? Oh-soooo much fun for little ones. I don't think this will go to court but Disney will settle. There is lot of an attorney to go on.

I agree with this poster. The landscaping is such that you are visually invited to the water's front. Why is it that the sand leads into the water in a man made lake you aren't supposed to swim in? I don't want to see the beaches go away either, but I think there should be some changes.

Which of these pictures look like you are being invited to the water?

 

[newdeal]

clearly the kid wasn't a foot deep in the water. The reason that I say this is because if he was, he would have instantly been pulled under and the parents wouldn't have even known. The dad from all reports tried to pull him free, there wouldn't have been the potential for that if a 3 foot tall child was in water 1 foot deep.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Or the actual reason Disney doesn't do it, which is that the cost to constantly control gators on 50 square miles of swampland would be so astronomical that your already expensive vacations would now be high 5 or low 6 digits, easy.

But yeah, good luck getting that constant gator control idea going.

Actually, the gator control methods that would be most effective are far less costly than the current measures Disney has in place. Someone previously mentioned alligators are the apex predators in central Florida. That also is incorrect. The apex predators in central Florida are human beings. It wasn't that long ago alligators were well on their way to extinction throughout the southern US states. All things considered, eradicating alligators in the 50 square miles of WDW, could be done very easily, extremely inexpensively, and relatively quickly. The only real question is if Disney will have the necessary fortitude to do whats right and eliminate the problem to ensure the safety of future guest.

 

[dres40]

12 inches in a 1 foot of water and a foot of water is at least belly button deep on Most toddlers and thats swimming folks

The sheriff said at the first press conference the child was in the water one foot from the shore in ankle deep water. That is NOT swimming, that is wading and just getting your feet wet. The no swimming signs were not sufficient. There should have been warnings signs of alligators.

Seems lots of other places in FL near the water have more clear warning signs of alligators.

I think if someone ignores clear warning signs, then it's your fault if you get hurt. But in this case I don't think most families would have know the full risk by just a "no swimming sign"

Disney knew there were alligators in the Lagoon. There should have been a more clear sign of the danger.

I've read that many people in FL have lost pets due to alligators. A 2 year old toddler is very similar to the size of lots of pets.
Disney has some blame here .....

I have a feeling they didn't want to have more of a warning because it would not fit in with the good vibe they are trying to create.

This comes from someone who loves Disney and has been to WDW over 10 times and I will continue to visit.

My heart breaks for these parents and feel Disney should have done more to let us all know of this risk.

 

[mrs moon]

Everything is pissing me off this week:

• The media overexposing Orlando which is only going to give the general public the impression Orlando is a dangerous place (when it's as dangerous as any other city)
• People falling for the satirical "Brock Turner Family Support" page with people thinking it is legitimate and cursing their hearts out while the description even shows it's not real (saying they and not our)
• People thinking the parents are completely innocent for letting their 2-YEAR OLD AT NIGHT go through A NATURAL LAKE IN FLORIDA.

Do I feel bad for the family? Absolutely. Everyone makes mistakes, but this is definitely not Disney's fault and I'm already reading comments about how Disney should've had signs. They don't have signs for something as common sense as "Mickey Mouse is at Disney World" you should at least have the common knowledge that Florida has a lot of alligators [/Shame you are pissed off!, People with yr mentality learn the hard way,trust me Karma can be a *****,be warned!!!!!

 

[huggypack2112]

Federally protected species.

Alligators as a threatened species were determined to be a fully recovered species in 1987. Since then, they are actually protected because of something called "similarity of appearance" to endangered crocodile species - it can be hard to tell the difference between gator and croc skin and meat, so the gator is protected to help protect the crocodiles.

Again, my sympathies to all involved.

 

[umichigan10]

Actually, the gator control methods that would be most effective are far less costly than the current measures Disney has in place. Someone previously mentioned alligators are the apex predators in central Florida. That also is incorrect. The apex predators in central Florida are human beings. It wasn't that long ago alligators were well on their way to extinction throughout the southern US states. All things considered, eradicating alligators in the 50 square miles of WDW, could be done very easily, extremely inexpensively, and relatively quickly. The only real question is if Disney will have the necessary fortitude to do whats right and eliminate the problem to ensure the safety of future guest.

But how? I can't see how eradicating an animal from a 50 square mile property (most of it undeveloped literal swamp( would be easy. Please explain

 

[notnothin]

But how? I can't see how eradicating an animal from a 50 square mile property (most of it undeveloped literal swamp( would be easy. Please explain

This is an impossible task. The alligators will always return.

 

[rteetz]

If it was always so obvious that gators were in the water, if it were always so obvious that people on the beach were at risk of an attack. If it were always so obvious that wading in the water or even sitting on the beach was risky why have there not been campaigns for years asking Disney to close the beaches and stop all water activities.

It is easy to be clever in hindsite

Because it really isn't that risky.

 

[umichigan10]

This is an impossible task. The alligators will always return.

Its like herding very big and dangerous cats. Or bailing out a boat with a dixie cup

 

[cruisingtwins]

He was one foot out ankle deep not 1 foot deep.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I actually asked a Lawyer here in Florida your points and He said that if they had written knowledge in their possession ie a vacation package warning in writing of the wildlife including Alligators and there are no swimming signs posted Disney did all they had to do legally speaking to warn others of the possible danger. He did say that he does think that they will pay out and make some changes to the signage but that will only be out of the standpoint from wanting to preserve the Disney image.

Yeah I agree. Many companies though do pay out, or at least more than they are legally responsible to due to PR. I can't tell you how many times a claim was covered when I worked at a large insurance company when the claim shouldn't have been covered but was due to wanting good PR. There were times where a person's auto accident due to a driver was covered even though they signed a legally binding document stating that driver would in no way drive the vehicle and if they did their accident wouldn't be covered...It's a bit like how settling is so common nowadays even if one party shouldn't have to be held responsible they don't want to spend the time, effort, and potential bad press fighting it in court.

I think this thread needs to be shut down. This is very terrible for the family. Everyone should just offer their sympathies and prayers and that's it. I can't believe how callous some people can be, especially when hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. A small child lost his life and the parents will never be the same. My heart aches for them.

While I understand your point this thread has given me more information in one place than I could have gotten reading all the news stories and watching the news for press releases. I don't agree with everything everyone is saying and yes some comments are well I would probably say more or less sarcastic but not in the put a smile on your face way (though to be fair some comments took it to the extreme first such as essentially removing the beach) it still has been very helpful in seeing different people's experiences, especially with the specific area in WDW, information regarding how wildlife is handled elsewhere (including what types of signs are used) and the circumstances in which this very tragic event occurred.

 

[LaidBackDad]

But how? I can't see how eradicating an animal from a 50 square mile property (most of it undeveloped literal swamp( would be easy. Please explain

There are lots of methods. Too many to list here, and I'm sure lots of people on this board won't want to hear about them. Generally, the methods do not involve capturing or releasing animals after they located or they may include synthetic measures to control reproduction of the animals. Additionally, better physical barriers at known or likely wildlife access points to WDW property.

 

[bdcp]

If you have not read them, there are 2 CNN articles you really should read up now. One on the real risk of Alligator attacks. I actually really do think they should have alligator warning signs along the water (not just at the beaches!) but really you are far more likely to be hurt by a car or bus at WDW than anything else, and then, will we have the same reaction when someone dies by snake bite or mosquito born illness? Signs for snakes, mosquitos, cars, fences for all water, all roads, where does it stop?

The other article is about the liability of landowners and wild animals. Disney should not pay a penny except to assist the family with travel and arrangements as a gesture of sympathy. No liability for Disney at all here. Not even for having a lakeside beach. There are thousands of lakeside beaches in Florida. It's not negligence to have one.

But, the reality is, there will be a settlement because it happened on Disney property. It's a horrible thing that no one should ever have to endure, but the reality is Disney settles suits often and we never hear the details because they don't want them out and it's part of the deal. Somehow I think we'll hear something about this one and that something is already in the works. We won't hear an amount, but the fact there was a settlement. Everyone is devastated by this and negligence doesn't seem to be the issue as much as the lack of realization that something like this could happen.

As for the comment on my statement about closing the beaches. It's not about the ability of alligators to attack on grass ( in this case, the alligator was able to get to the boy because a beach slopes down to the water). It's about the fact that an alligator would have to crawl up out of the water onto the grass which isn't as inviting a spot to play like sand is. I still maintain that removing the beaches is now on the table.

 

[umichigan10]

There are lots of methods. Too many to list here, and I'm sure lots of people on this board won't want to hear about them. Generally, the methods do not involve capturing or releasing animals after they located or they may include synthetic measures to control reproduction of the animals. Additionally, better physical barriers at known or likely wildlife access points to WDW property.

But I mean the whole things a swamp tied into a state that's a swamp. I mean scientifically you can probably get really down and dirty with reproduction and such but I generally don't see it as a pragmatic solution.

 

[southerngirl528]

The lake in the center of celebration had residents/frequent visitors.

I can personally vouch for that. I saw gators pretty regularly the first few years I lived there. AND along the same dreadfully sad lines of this story, many times I have watched people standing right NEXT to a sign that states it is against FL law to "feed or harass the alligators", and have seen them doing BOTH, feeding AND harassing gators. Right next to the sign telling them not to. Insane behavior.

Interesting question is why was there a lifeguard at a beach that doesn't allow swimming? And as you said if they are there not telling people to get out of the water

Hopper fan's quote below answers that very well.

Lifeguards are not on the beach since there is NO SWIMMING allowed. The lifeguard is at the pool and I know in all my visits they are highly focused and walking the pool deck. Dark and out beyond the water play area is the beach .... there would be no visibility by lifeguard of the beach nor any reason for him to do so.

They were on a beach next to the pool area but with the water play area between them.

AFTER the event occurred the family was yelling to lifeguard for help.

I can tell you that what little I have learned about gators from living here in central FL for many years is that you can easily walk right up on one if you are not careful. I was actually walking on a sidewalk above a canal trying to help trappers find a reported nuisance gator (not on Disney property) and got within a very few yards of one before I saw it because it was laying completely still. So much so it was easy to miss it in the rushes. Scared me big time that I was LOOKING for it and still did not see it until I was closer than I preferred.

As others have said, gators are exceedingly fast for short distances, and can strike as fast as a snake. It's crazy how fast these monsters can move. I agree with those that have explained that it would be impossible to catch and clear Disney lakes/waters from every gator from now on. They are more transient than you would think, sometimes going pretty long distances to relocate. I know of a case in a nice area here in Orlando where a large gator left a small lake, marched right up the middle of a neighborhood street for a couple of blocks to relocate in a fenced backyard's tiny water garden that was far too small for it, but it wound itself up in it anyway. Scary stuff. It pays to be very aware of local possible threats and heed local advice. Lastly, most snake bites happen at dawn or dusk, and gators are known to attack at night often. A lady visitor in Australia just lost her life to a very large croc while swimming late at NIGHT in an area known to have crocodiles. Very sad as well.

 

[umichigan10]

But, the reality is, there will be a settlement because it happened on Disney property. It's a horrible thing that no one should ever have to endure, but the reality is Disney settles suits often and we never hear the details because they don't want them out and it's part of the deal. Somehow I think we'll hear something about this one and that something is already in the works. We won't hear an amount, but the fact there was a settlement. Everyone is devastated by this and negligence doesn't seem to be the issue as much as the lack of realization that something like this could happen.

As for the comment on my statement about closing the beaches. It's not about the ability of alligators to attack on grass ( in this case, the alligator was able to get to the boy because a beach slopes down to the water). It's about the fact that an alligator would have to crawl up out of the water onto the grass which isn't as inviting a spot to play like sand is. I still maintain that removing the beaches is now on the table.

Oh its probably on the table. But a more likely thing would be them closing off access to said beaches and leaving it abandoned so to speak. I doubt either option is gonna happen though

 

[rteetz]

While I understand your point this thread has given me more information in one place than I could have gotten reading all the news stories and watching the news for press releases. I don't agree with everything everyone is saying and yes some comments are well I would probably say more or less sarcastic but not in the put a smile on your face way (though to be fair some comments took it to the extreme first such as essentially removing the beach) it still has been very helpful in seeing different people's experiences, especially with the specific area in WDW, information regarding how wildlife is handled elsewhere (including what types of signs are used) and the circumstances in which this very tragic event occurred.

I have felt this thread has been fairly civil compared to some other things I've seen on the internet lately.

 

[bdcp]

There are lots of methods. Too many to list here, and I'm sure lots of people on this board won't want to hear about them. Generally, the methods do not involve capturing or releasing animals after they located or they may include synthetic measures to control reproduction of the animals. Additionally, better physical barriers at known or likely wildlife access points to WDW property.

Sounds good in theory, but it's just not manageable in an area as large as WDW. Honestly, it's not something that even residential areas or golf courses attempt. The fact is, there are alligators in Florida and they move around pretty much at will. What kind of physical barriers? It would take fences and blocking of waterways which would cause their own issues.