Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[Maistre Gracey]

Either way, I hope the father was actively holding the child's hand. Nighttime and even six inches of water is not good.

MG

 

[cgh]

You know, I'm thinking, in addition to the gators, the sand on those beaches can get mighty hot on a warm day. We wouldn't want anyone to burn their feet, so we should probably put a sign up....or on second thought just close the beaches entirely, to be safe.

Probably want to pull all coffee makers out of the room too, since hot coffee can lead to scalding burns, as scientists have just informed me.

Better shut off all hot water sources to the rooms too, just to be safe.

While we're at it, shut off all water so no one drowns in the tub. Can't be too careful.

This is being being absolutely ridiculous. (and I'd say a bit callous). Burning is not having a puncture wound and dragged underwater to your death. Not remotely comparable. The emotional trauma to not only the person's 4 year old sister and parents but anyone else watching the ordeal is also not to be discounted.

 

[Delgado]

I'm just going off the alligator facts in the CNN article. It's not a common thing for gators to attack far off the shoreline. It's definitely possible but I don't understand people saying you should not be allowed on beaches.

Thays all I am saying is that it possible, not even unlikely. That to me is enough of a risk not to have children there. Adults, by all means.

 

[rteetz]

I also heard a foot of water..

MG

This part of the info has been weird. Some say a few inches some say a foot.

 

[whiporee]

An apex predator is the predator at the top of the food chain. There is no more to the definition. And national geo, science, and about every other science publication disagree with you and call them apex predators. They have a vital role in the ecosystem.

Maybe in the glades. Maybe in swamps, where there are snakes and raccoons to scavenge eggs, osprey and eagles to eat babies, snappers and gar to eat midsized ones before they reach maturity. That's not the case in central Florida anymore. The birds are have left, the raccoons eat garbage instead of foraging and the snappers get eaten by bigger alligators, because there are too many alligators.

The reason apex predators make it to be apex predators is because there is a control on their population growth. Lions, bears, birds of prey produce minimal offspring -- that's nature's way, because you simply can't have an eco system where the apex is an abundant species. This is also basic biology -- too many predators, not enough prey. You can't have an ecosystem where the apex produces up to 90 offspring a year, none of whom have significant challenges to their survival. We've saved the alligators and have recreated their environment, but we haven't recreated the threats to them. So they grow up mostly unchallenged.

But even that's not the point. Because the apex predator in all of this is man. We have the ability, the right, and the obligation to protect our own well being, and in the case of alligators in urban and suburban areas, we ought to.

 

[Maleffiecent41]

The number of questions that Disney has coming out of this is huge, with an enormous pressure from the legal department to answer them quickly. Unfortunately probably number 1 most important question is "Did they catch the right alligator?" That is hugely important as the worst of all possible future scenarios is another child is attacked and killed by the same gator.

just a few Disney Questions that will certainly be weighing on their minds this week. I am sure there are 50 more.

1) Did they catch the right Alligator?
2) What can they do to make this right for the family?
3) What should the new signs look like and how many?
4) Do they close the beaches forever or increase safety mechanisms to keep gators away?
5) Do they install a significant amount of lights and fences along the shore?
6) How do they keep people from approaching shore around firework time?
7) Do they increase security patrols around waterfronts/shorelines to keep guests from violating signs?
8) Do they continue to have the water pageant?
9) Does it make sense to continue with any sort of Disney press releases until the confirmation of the alligator being caught? (i.e. it may come off in poor taste to release a huge new campaign to increase sales in the same breath as you say, and we still don't have the alligator yet.)
10) Do we release packages on June 17th if the Alligator is not caught yet?
11) How do address guests about the threat of wildlife? Do they increase wildlife notifications to the point that it frightens guests?
12) What about other types of wildlife threats?
13) Do they have to address areas in WDW other than Seven Seas Lagoon?

Well we can answer the catching the right Gator question, FWC has said they will compare bite marks and if they do not have the Gator in the ones that they have caught they will continue trapping until they have the correct alligator.

I don't think we will see a total closure of beaches and barriers don't really work we get Gators in pools here all the time that have barriers around them.

I think they probably put new signage at the same intervals as the current ones are posted.

They probably won't install lights etc because that will detract from the Fireworks etc.

 

[Metalliman98]

This is being being absolutely ridiculous. (and I'd say a bit callous). Burning is not having a puncture wound and dragged underwater to your death. Not remotely comparable. The emotional trauma to not only the person's 4 year old sister and parents but anyone else watching the ordeal is also not to be discounted.

Tell me, how many people, annually, are killed or are substantially harmed by hot water? And then tell me, how many are killed or substantially harmed by gator attacks? And then give me those same numbers for inicidents on Disney property.

I'm betting dollars to donuts that the first number is significantly higher than the second, so we should be prorortionately more worried about hot water, and take proportionately more serious actions to safeguard against it, than we do against gator attacks.

 

[Delgado]

And I've admitted there probably should've been signs, and most likely will be. But i think all parties are culpable to an extent. I don't honestly get the point you're trying to make tbh

Children should not be close to the water. Period. Movie night? No. Beach toys at shops? No. Parents relaxing in a hammock with kids on the beach? No.

 

[bdcp]

Those "beaches" are man made. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them removed and grass planted in their place. Along with new signs warning of wildlife.

 

[rteetz]

Those "beaches" are man made. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them removed and grass planted in their place. Along with new signs warning of wildlife.

I just don't think that will happen. An alligator could still possibly attack on grass that's not going to stop them.

 

[Metalliman98]

Children should not be close to the water. Period. Movie night? No. Beach toys at shops? No. Parents relaxing in a hammock with kids on the beach? No.

Yeah! What he said! Ban beaches! Burn down the ocean so this will never happen again!

 

[Mac30188]

I agree I don't think much will change other than signage.

Oh I suspect there will be more than that. I bet number one is CMs and lifeguards have an entirely new policy on behavior on the shoreline. I would also be shocked if they didn't do a little more behind the scenes upping on the gator patrols. The signs will absolutely change. The vacation materials maybe a little more comprehensive in the risk.

Ultimately the problem is the sign just is not enough. IMHO, they have two choices. A) Fence B) Increased Human Security. While B would make more sense, Disney's recent MO has not been to throw people at problems.

 

[umichigan10]

Children should not be close to the water. Period. Movie night? No. Beach toys at shops? No. Parents relaxing in a hammock with kids on the beach? No.

Well I disagree with you. More can be done and nobody should be IN the water or right near it (close is a vague term) but as I said this issue had shortcomings on many sides as sad as it is. Ultimately, Disney can put up all the signs they want but people gotta keep their kids away from the lakes

 

[umichigan10]

I just don't think that will happen. An alligator could still possibly attack on grass that's not going to stop them.

Actually, even though I realize the poster is well intentioned in their reasoning, it'd probably help the gator blend in more.

 

[LaidBackDad]

No you cannot eliminate alligators from Florida swamps without another one returning at some point. Disney does have a team that removes them you just can't possibly get them all.

I have been refraining from commenting on this incident because it is one of the most horrifying things I can imagine. My utmost sympathy goes to the family. While I am trying to not think too much about this incident, one thought that keeps popping in my head is; why can't Disney eliminate alligators from their property? The unfortunate reality to that question is that they could eliminate alligators if they wanted to and / or where allowed to. The technology and methods are available to control wildlife populations in designated environments. The real issue is that Disney would likely be painted as an evil corporate giant bent on destroying the planet by animal rights activist and environmental wackos. Disney's tries to remove aggressive gators and other problematic wildlife but their efforts are hampered by political correctness. Too many people are trying to convince everyone that this was just a freak accident that couldn't be avoided. Unfortunately, that is simply not true. Yes, this kind of incident is extremely rare, but as others also point out you still have to be aware of your surroundings. That means the potential for something like this happening has always been there. Disney knew this as well. It's not that they haven't done anything to avoid it, they do try there best; they just don't want to or aren't allowed to eliminate the problem. There is no place for alligators at WDW, (except perhaps on Kilimanjaro Safari). Lets hope some good comes out of this incident and Disney does what it needs to do to eliminate alligators from their property so nothing like this happens again.

 

[Cinderella624]

This is so tragic and sad, unfortunately there are so many waterways in Fla. That the gators can travels to get to where they want. My parents lived in a community in Orlando and there were gators is the man made pond on property and in the swampy area surrounding the condos. My step dad told me of stories about small dogs and cats being snatched up all the time on their property. My brother and S iL live in south fla and my SIL is a runner and has come upon a gator sunning himself on the sidewalk! She was shocked to see him there tho not truly surprised. It's a terrible thing but they are everywhere there. I am so sickened for the family, I hate to say it but I would think Disney would have some sort of way to block the gators form entering the beach areas... Underwater fencing of some sort so the gators cannot make nesting areas on resort areas. Ugh just trying to think of something, so sorry....

 

[Mac30188]

I just don't think that will happen. An alligator could still possibly attack on grass that's not going to stop them.

Its not about changing the behavior of the Alligator. That is very difficult. It is about changing the behavior of the Human. A sandy beach is just an invitation for a child to come play.

 

[ParrotBill]

If you have not read them, there are 2 CNN articles you really should read up now. One on the real risk of Alligator attacks. I actually really do think they should have alligator warning signs along the water (not just at the beaches!) but really you are far more likely to be hurt by a car or bus at WDW than anything else, and then, will we have the same reaction when someone dies by snake bite or mosquito born illness? Signs for snakes, mosquitos, cars, fences for all water, all roads, where does it stop?

The other article is about the liability of landowners and wild animals. Disney should not pay a penny except to assist the family with travel and arrangements as a gesture of sympathy. No liability for Disney at all here. Not even for having a lakeside beach. There are thousands of lakeside beaches in Florida. It's not negligence to have one.

 

[Delgado]

Apparently there are people here who just want to argue. The case at point is being lost. A child died, at disney, on a beach, by an alligator, at night, during a recreational event. Discussion of signage or lack of, mating season, rules and regs, breaking news, all that awesome. The stupid arguements of everything is dangerous, theres always a risk, one has to ruin it for everyone, get rid of all the hot water so no one gets burned (really?) Is ridiculous. Too much time has been spent on these crazy arguments. I have kids to go hug. Goodnight all. And thoughts and prayers to the family and anyone this has affected in some way.

 

[Metalliman98]

I have been refraining from commenting on this incident because it is one of the most horrifying things I can imagine. My utmost sympathy goes to the family. While I am trying to not think too much about this incident, one thought that keeps popping in my head is; why can't Disney eliminate alligators from their property? The unfortunate reality to that question is that they could eliminate alligators if they wanted to and / or where allowed to. The technology and methods are available to control wildlife populations in designated environments. The real issue is that Disney would likely be painted as an evil corporate giant bent on destroying the planet by animal rights activist and environmental wackos. Disney's tries to remove aggressive gators and other problematic wildlife but their efforts are hampered by political correctness. Too many people are trying to convince everyone that this was just a freak accident that couldn't be avoided. Unfortunately, that is simply not true. Yes, this kind of incident is extremely rare, but as others also point out you still have to be aware of your surroundings. That means the potential for something like this happening has always been there. Disney knew this as well. It's not that they haven't done anything to avoid it, they do try there best; they just don't want to or aren't allowed to eliminate the problem. There is no place for alligators at WDW, (except perhaps on Kilimanjaro Safari). Lets hope some good comes out of this incident and Disney does what it needs to do to eliminate alligators from their property so nothing like this happens again.

Or the actual reason Disney doesn't do it, which is that the cost to constantly control gators on 50 square miles of swampland would be so astronomical that your already expensive vacations would now be high 5 or low 6 digits, easy.

But yeah, good luck getting that constant gator control idea going.