DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[keys2kingdom]

Thanks. I had her on my Ignore List because of her incessant name-calling and didn't know she was gone.

Your point is well-taken, we all have different perspectives. I saw an interesting quote today. It said that we should be cautious when attacking another's opinion, because we may both be wrong.

I've used that feature quite a bit myself on this thread. Handy little tool if you ask me.

 

[JimMIA]

I've used that feature quite a bit myself on this thread. Handy little tool if you ask me.

Sure reads better, doesn't it?

 

[Tink10]

Anyway, what twinklebug wrote about ebay yanking the auctions for one member, got me wondering. Who decides if the auction should be pulled? Disney or ebay?

I'm an Ebay powerseller (no, I don't sell DVC) and Ebay has a program called The Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program .

Here's the description......

"VeRO lets intellectual property rights owners request the removal of listings on eBay that offer items or contain materials that infringe on their rights. This helps protect members of the eBay community from purchasing items that may be counterfeit or otherwise unauthorized.

Intellectual property rights owners can request that we remove listings that they claim, under penalty of perjury, offer an item or contain material that infringes on their intellectual property rights. These rights can include trademark, copyright and other legal rights. For example, the item being sold may bear the rights owner's trademark (such as a logo on a designer purse), but may not be an authentic product.

Before a listing is removed, the rights owner must fill out a form that is designed to ensure that the person reporting the item is authorized to do so, and to enable us to correctly identify the listing to be removed. If your item is reported, you will receive an email explaining why your listing was removed.

Unfortunately, eBay cannot require rights owners to provide you with the exact reason for the removal of your listing. However, we do require that they provide you with an email address to contact them directly. The rights owner's email address should have been included in the email we sent to you notifying you about your listing removal.

To learn more about reasons listings are removed through this program, you can read our VeRO FAQ."

I've had hundreds of, what I thought were totally & completely "legal" auctions pulled because of VeRO. Essentially, the "owner" fills out a short form with Ebay & then Ebay HAS to pull down the auction.....No questions asked......

Like I said, I've had hundreds of auctions pulled & I've been threatened with legal action on more than one occasion though nothing ever came of it. I checked the Participating VeRO Owner listing & DVC isn't on there, but not all owners are listed, so I'm assuming that this is the route that DVC is taking to pull down Ebay auctions......

Just A Little FYI

 

[Beca]

This is kind of funny - but I really don't care about commercial renters. I just don't understand the witch hunt. I don't understand why everyone is so angry. I believe what someone claimed disney legal to have said because it makes sense. Just as long as it is your own points you are renting it is fine. No matter how many points you have. DVC probably has a better handle on the situation when they can estimate based on how many points everyone has. And it doesn't bother me about them reserving for peak times. You and I have just as much a chance of booking as they do. They pick up the phone and call just like you and I. Sure I am disappointed when something is not available, but if one person with 20 reservations booked it, or 20 people with 1 reservation booked it, it doesn't matter to me. Its still not available. And truthfully, with the job situation the way it is now a days, I agree with the person that said that if the they needed to sell their DVC, they could still rent. I was able to rent a reservation for my daugher at a fantastic price compared to what Disney was charging. And I was able to purchase 13 points when I had 7 left and needed 20 to complete a reservation. Basically we know that it is difficult to get reservations at certain times. So we vacation at less popular times. DVC does say that it will change the way you vacation. And by the way, I own 210 pts. at OKW. I love OKW. We booked a spur of the moment trip last winter for the opening of EE, and the only thing available was SSR. We had a guaranteed HA reservation at OKW for a grand villa in May, and 3 days before we left, they said a mistake had been made and they moved us to...guess where? No matter. Yes, I would've much preferred OKW, but we had fun at SSR. What does it say when a HA grand villa facing downtown disney was available with 3 days notice? I don't know exactly the point I'm making about SSR, but to me it's all DVC, all magic, all fantastic.

I'm totally with you on this one!! I've always thought owning points to rent out would be an incredibly bad return on one's money, and although I know there are a FEW who choose to do that. I believe it is a VERY few!!

I look at it like this. If someone owns 10,000 points...they're probably renting...on some scale. I have absolutely NO power to stop it (anymore than I have any power to change the transfer rule). I feel if DVC was really concerned about this, they would keep one person/family/group from owning that many points to begin with....but, they don't. So, I guess in the big picture...DVC doesn't care too much, either. We, as owners have a choice...suck it up, complain to DVC until we drive ourselves crazy, or sell. I was really unhappy when they changed the transfer rule (I still am if I dwell on it), but my dh finally said, "I never expected we'd have anymore control over our DVC than I do over the companies I invest stock in." Unfortunately, he's right. Now, it is up to my family to decide IF we want to stay invested in DVC, and if so...how much. How many points do we REALLY need? My dd enters Kindergarten next year, so we will have to begin going at peak times (yuck!). We'll see what we think of travel at that time, and how many points it takes...we may end up selling...or, we may keep...who knows. Bottom line...DVC has allowed these people to get this many points...they are responsible for ALL actions taken in the system they design and manage. If someone owns 10,000 points, of course they are going to have to book MANY, MANY rooms to use those points. When, where, how and why doesn't really matter....they've got to use their points, just like we have got to use ours. And realistically, if they didn't own those 10,000 points....someone else would have them.

To the poster who called about Christmas...I don't really think whether renters existed or not, that you would be able to call TOO late in the season to book December. The waitlist for that time is a MILE long!! I think that is the ONE season that would be full no matter what. That is the result of a system that allows you to use your points at any time. Between the time that the dates opened for ressies, and the time that you called, there were probably a lot of people who called and couldn't get ressies. Some of them probably went on the waitlist (good luck!!), but I imagine MANY people just picked alternative dates. Those people are now NOT staying when you wanted to go, but would've been if they could've received the rooms. So, I imagine it would've been full either way. December is just one of those times that people really NEED to plan 11 months out, and then "hope" if they are trying to switch.

 

[diznyfanatic]

Tink10 is exactly right.

However, with very few exceptions, eBay does NOT police the listings on their site. They pretty much rely on the community to do it for them.

eBay may have automatic blocks on banned items that contain certain Keywords in the title or description, such as Live Animals or Weapons which prevents listing them in the first place. VeRO items generally do not fall into the banned items category.

So, it's often times NOT the VeRO owner that even finds the offending listing on eBay. Sometimes it's a competitor of the item being sold, or someone else in the eBay community, who notifies the VeRO owner of the listing.

eBay doesn't even review listings that ARE reported by the VeRO owner to ensure an infringement has occurred. They automatically remove the reported listing and any appeals or communication must occur between the seller of the item and the VeRO owner. If an item has been improperly removed from eBay, the only way the listing can be reinstated is if the VeRO owner instructs eBay to reinstate it

However, please keep in mind that the VeRO program has been the subject of a considerable amount of violent debate and controversy within the eBay community as it has strayed so far from it's intended purpose which was to legitimately protect trademarks from being fraudulently used.

A legitimate example of the proper use of VeRO might be to remove a counterfeit Louis Vitton purse being sold as the real thing.

The controversy began when VeRO owners began broadening their net of Rights and have used the system to brow beat small businesses without the financial resources to fight back, into complicity.

An example of how that has happened can be found ironically enough, with Disney itself, who is a VeRO owner.

In the case of a few years ago, a well known eBay seller was handcrafting original items such as Pillows, Blankets, Comforters, etc made with legitimate and fully Licensed Disney Fabric. Her items were removed by Disney under the VeRO program. This seller decided to challenge and appeal the removal.

After several months and court dates, Disney finally had to concede that they could not prevent a seller from selling their own handcrafted items made with Disney fabric which had been purchased legitmately. The sellers items were reinstated. See here to learn more: Tabberone

The point to all of this is don't assume just because some rental listings were removed that we know WHY or even that they were removed within a legally enforceable framework which is also possible.

As much as I think it's wrong for commercial renters to sell peak weeks that have been reserved on speculation on eBay and elsewhere, we probably shouldn't be jumping to any conclusions as to why these rental listings were removed until we hear it from Disney.

 

[diznyfanatic]

To the poster who called about Christmas...I don't really think whether renters existed or not, that you would be able to call TOO late in the season to book December. The waitlist for that time is a MILE long!! I think that is the ONE season that would be full no matter what. That is the result of a system that allows you to use your points at any time. Between the time that the dates opened for ressies, and the time that you called, there were probably a lot of people who called and couldn't get ressies. Some of them probably went on the waitlist (good luck!!), but I imagine MANY people just picked alternative dates. Those people are now NOT staying when you wanted to go, but would've been if they could've received the rooms. So, I imagine it would've been full either way. December is just one of those times that people really NEED to plan 11 months out, and then "hope" if they are trying to switch.

Beca - That might very well have been me that you were referring to and if so, my comment was taken completely out of context. Not only by the person to whom I responded to who has since posted that she is leaving this community, but also by other posters later.

I simply pointed out to her that calling members "too stupid" to book 11 months out might be unfair based on when they became members. I was taking exception to her name calling and provided an example of why it was inappropriate. That's all.

While I don't believe it's fair play to book prime weeks on speculation to resell later, if as DVC owners, they are within their legal rights to so so, I can certainly live with that and have every intention of booking my future reservations ultilizing the full 11 month booking window now that I am able to do so.

 

[2Princes2Princesses]

I know a lady who makes made to match bracelets with Gymboree charms on them. Her listings on Ebay are pulled if she uses Gymboree in her title. Even if it says "bracelet made to match gymboree"

The only way you can use their name is if you are selling an article of clothing or item made BY them. Even the auctions for hairbows using their fabric get shut down. They are HUGE enforcers of VeRO with EBay.

They also shut down any auctions that use pics of the clothing copied from their site.

Disney may be just closing down auctions using their copyrighted pictures, we have no way to know.

EBay tends to be very accommodating with VeRO to the companies. I agree, they pretty much just shut the auctions down without checking to see what the particular copyright infringement is or even if their actually is one.

 

[Tink10]

Tink10 is exactly right.

Thanks!

However, with very few exceptions, eBay does NOT police the listings on their site. They pretty much rely on the community to do it for them.

eBay may have automatic blocks on banned items that contain certain Keywords in the title or description, such as Live Animals or Weapons which prevents listing them in the first place. VeRO items generally do not fall into the banned items category.

So, it's often times NOT the VeRO owner that even finds the offending listing on eBay. Sometimes it's a competitor of the item being sold, or someone else in the eBay community, who notifies the VeRO owner of the listing.

eBay doesn't even review listings that ARE reported by the VeRO owner to ensure an infringement has occurred. They automatically remove the reported listing and any appeals or communication must occur between the seller of the item and the VeRO owner. If an item has been improperly removed from eBay, the only way the listing can be reinstated is if the VeRO owner instructs eBay to reinstate it

However, please keep in mind that the VeRO program has been the subject of a considerable amount of violent debate and controversy within the eBay community as it has strayed so far from it's intended purpose which was to legitimately protect trademarks from being fraudulently used.

A legitimate example of the proper use of VeRO might be to remove a counterfeit Louis Vitton purse being sold as the real thing.

The controversy began when VeRO owners began broadening their net of Rights and have used the system to brow beat small businesses without the financial resources to fight back, into complicity.

An example of how that has happened can be found ironically enough, with Disney itself, who is a VeRO owner.

In the case of a few years ago, a well known eBay seller was handcrafting original items such as Pillows, Blankets, Comforters, etc made with legitimate and fully Licensed Disney Fabric. Her items were removed by Disney under the VeRO program. This seller decided to challenge and appeal the removal.

After several months and court dates, Disney finally had to concede that they could not prevent a seller from selling their own handcrafted items made with Disney fabric which had been purchased legitmately. The sellers items were reinstated. See here to learn more: Tabberone

The point to all of this is don't assume just because some rental listings were removed that we know WHY or even that they were removed within a legally enforceable framework which is also possible.

As much as I think it's wrong for commercial renters to sell peak weeks that have been reserved on speculation on eBay and elsewhere, we probably shouldn't be jumping to any conclusions as to why these rental listings were removed until we hear it from Disney.

If, in fact auctions were pulled because of VeRO, then I definately think we'll see more of it......The best way to tell is to just keep an eye on the current & future auctions.

The only people who know exactly why auctions were cancelled were the people who had the pulled & possibly the auction's seller. Every time I was VeROed, I received an email letting me know who VeROed me.

I think it would be great to see DVC VeROing these auctions.....It may not mean more availability, but it would close one of the avenues for these mega point owners to do business......

 

[Beca]

Beca - That might very well have been me that you were referring to and if so, my comment was taken completely out of context. Not only by the person to whom I responded to who has since posted that she is leaving this community, but also by other posters later.

I simply pointed out to her that calling members "too stupid" to book 11 months out might be unfair based on when they became members. I was taking exception to her name calling and provided an example of why it was inappropriate. That's all.

While I don't believe it's fair play to book prime weeks on speculation to resell later, if as DVC owners, they are within their legal rights to so so, I can certainly live with that and have every intention of booking my future reservations ultilizing the full 11 month booking window now that I am able to do so.

Got it!! I hope I didn't offend you with that. I didn't mean to be argumentative, just helpful!!



Beca

 

[rinkwide]

Have any of you guys seen those drummers at the Japanese pavilion in Epcot? This thread is sorta' like having all of them simultaneously beat on your head.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Have any of you guys seen those drummers at the Japanese pavilion in Epcot? This thread is sorta' like having all of them simultaneously beat on your head.

LOL! I agree, and I knew there was a good reason I quit reading this thread!

 

[greenban]

I believe that was post 2001

PS I really appreciate the fact that we can cook people and that cooking will never change, even if the OP goes back and edits. I think everyone should remember this when posting something argumentative or just plain not nice. More than likely you will be called on it, cooked on it and attacked for it.

!CAUTION!

Before this latest 'hot' issue, people were editing quotes (or as several continue to do, taking posts out of context) - As I did in the above 'edited' quote, I replaced the word quote with cook or cooking..... WITHOUT NOTICE

So, only if the quoter has integrity, can you trust that the quote ascribed to the quotee is accurate.

And you can quote me on that!

-Tony

 

[Muushka]

!CAUTION!

Before this latest 'hot' issue, people we editing quotes (or as several continue to do, taking posts out of context) - As I did in the above 'edited' quote, I replaced the work quote with cook or cooking..... WITHOUT NOTICE

So, only if the quoter has integrity, can you trust that the quote ascribed to the quotee is accurate.

And you can quote me on that!

-Tony

Oh my! You are right!! I never thought that people would do that. How sad .

For the record, I always use "snip... or ...snip" when I take a quote out of context. I hate wasting bandwidth. But if it is a nasty post, I won't edit out anything.

So, is there any way we can have these things notarized before we quote them????

 

[diznyfanatic]

Got it!! I hope I didn't offend you with that. I didn't mean to be argumentative, just helpful!!



Beca

Beca - No worries, you didn't offend me at all and knew you were trying to be helpful.

Tony - Interesting, in a "black helicopter" kinda way.

 

[greenban]

Oh my! You are right!! I never thought that people would do that. How sad .

For the record, I always use "snip... or ...snip" when I take a quote out of context. I hate wasting bandwidth. But if it is a nasty post, I won't edit out anything.

So, is there any way we can have these things notarized before we quote them????

Muushka:

How I wish there was a way to notorize them!

It actually gets even worse. I can go back at anytime and re-edit my 'distortion' of your quote, and change it again. And then claim I found this 'long buried' quote of yours, and look how you have changed your tune.

We're are on the internet, a rapidly changing, fliud environment, with nothing of permanace.

Regards,

-Tony

 

[greenban]

Beca - No worries, you didn't offend me at all and knew you were trying to be helpful.

Tony - Interesting, in a kind of "black helicopter" kinda way.

HeeHeeHee!

So that's who obtained those secret wiretaps of my DVC Cartel meetings.

It's a shame we can't find WMDs or stop the nuclear bomb spread of Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, but at least the black helicopters got me and the DVC cartel!

(Just because I *AM* paranoid, doesn't mean that they are *NOT* out to get me!)

-Tony

 

[minnie61650]

Muushka:

How I wish there was a way to notorize them!

It actually gets even worse. I can go back at anytime and re-edit my 'distortion' of your quote, and change it again. And then claim I found this 'long buried' quote of yours, and look how you have changed your tune.

We're are on the internet, a rapidly changing, fliud environment, with nothing of permanace.

Regards,

-Tony

Of course someone could always ask you for the link to the original "long buried" quote.

If the quote had been recently editied one may think your 'distortion'was indeed fact.
If however you do not come up with the link one may think you made it up.

Just take everything you read on these boards with a grain of salt.

 

[jmatias]

!CAUTION!

Before this latest 'hot' issue, people were editing quotes (or as several continue to do, taking posts out of context) - As I did in the above 'edited' quote, I replaced the work quote with cook or cooking..... WITHOUT NOTICE

So, only if the quoter has integrity, can you trust that the quote ascribed to the quotee is accurate.

And you can quote me on that!

-Tony

Shows how much I lived in "Neverland" Didn't realize about the quote and extent of editing that could be done. I'm not sure I like being enlightened. I liked it better when I though of the Disboards as a place full of Disney pixie dust...naive I know. After this thread it feels like we got invaded by the Disney Villains

Jen

 

[diznyfanatic]

HeeHeeHee!

So that's who obtained those secret wiretaps of my DVC Cartel meetings.

It's a shame we can't find WMDs or stop the nuclear bomb spread of Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, but at least the black helicopters got me and the DVC cartel!

(Just because I *AM* paranoid, doesn't mean that they are *NOT* out to get me!)

-Tony

What's even more ironic and confusing is that we must have been posting at the same time because I slightly altered my post that you are quoting to remove a redundant "kind of" which takes this issue full circle..."kind of".

Shows how much I lived in "Neverland" Didn't realize about the quote and extent of editing that could be done. I'm not sure I like being enlightened. I liked it better when I though of the Disboards as a place full of Disney pixie dust...naive I know. After this thread it feels like we got invaded by the Disney Villains

I agree.

 

[Deb & Bill]

My take on quoting posts - When I quote a post, if I delete any text, I insert ... to show text has been deleted.

But to change someone else's text to make it read the way I want it to ranks right up there with stealing someone's points or reservation. I guess I just expect people to be ethical in their dealings with me.