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Disney removing Bill Cosby bust at DHS

Personally, I think the BETTER solution, is to continue to HONOR them for their accomplishments, and then as their crimes (or whatever) arise, Display them too, so that people can make up their own mind.

It's a park decoration. There is no honor any of these busts...it was just part of the (lame and dated) '80's movie studio/ABC network theme that is going to get scrapped anyway. In a year or so...Oprah, Art, Dick, and the whole gang are going on eBay or to be smelted down. Walt will get re-purposed elsewhere and become trivia on a park tour.

This isn't the same at the actual Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, which is in L.A., taking action against Cosby.

(ha!...DIS censored Dick Clark)
 
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I couldn't really care less if they kept it or removed it. Surprised so many feel so strongly about it. I was kind of unhappy when they brought back Captain EO after the whole Michael Jackson thing, but I guess it is more acceptable because of him being found not guilty, whereas Cosby has actually admitted guilt.
 
There's nothing to be gained from honoring a serial rapist for the things they accomplished when they weren't raping women. That would be like honoring a bank robber as citizen of the year because he volunteered for charities in his spare time.

This behavior of Cosby's was going on for a very long time - decades - before this came out. There were apparently lots of allegations made and lots of rumors. There is no way that Disney or at least ABC execs didn't hear about these stories. They have security companies, detectives and lawyers up the wazoo. Probably Cosby's modus operandi was common knowledge in Hollywood just like Bob Crane's, um, hobby was well known. Putting up a statue of living person is never a good idea (ask Joe Pa), but putting up a statue of someone whom insiders know to have an unsavory personal life is just plain dumb.

The only explanation I can think of for putting up a statue of a known scumbag is that what Cosby was doing was not very different from what lots and lots of rich and powerful people in Hollywood do all the time. Just a bit more creepy, like Phil Spector, but more or less what Hollywood people consider to be normal and healthy fun.
 


Too many people here are incapable of separating the Cosby case from the separate but related issue of removal of subjectively "offensive" symbols. I never once defended Cosby (in fact said I understood why Disney was removing his bust). But that didn't stop a number of people here like Waltdizzy and Chipndale from erroneously equating my concerns over the increasingly broadening attacks on items under the generic banner of "they are deeply offensive to X-Y -Z" with being a defense of Cosby.

But now let me turn the tables back on them. Since they apparently equate all claims of "offense" as being equally justified, that must mean they fully agree with the people who want to remove the Jefferson Memorial and rename Washington D.C. because that structure and name offend some because their namesakes owned slaves.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/video-d-c-residents-say-take-down-jefferson-memorial-rename-washington-d-c/
 
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It's a park decoration. There is no honor any of these busts...it was just part of the (lame and dated) '80's movie studio/ABC network theme that is going to get scrapped anyway. In a year or so...Oprah, Art, ****, and the whole gang are going on eBay or to be smelted down. Walt will get re-purposed elsewhere and become trivia on a park tour.

This isn't the same at the actual Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, which is in L.A., taking action against Cosby.

(ha!...DIS censored **** Clark)

That's what I was wondering, is if this bust is part of the actual award that was given (do all people who get that award get a bust at DHS), or if this is just a themed park decoration with busts of a scattering of the winners. That would make a difference to me as to whether it was appropriate to take it down in the midst of personal scandal unrelated to the award. If it was part of the award and they took it down, Disney could actually be sued by Cosby, if the academy didn't also strip him of the award. Just looking at it from an appropriateness/legal standpoint, not from a judgement about his actions.
 


Too many people here are incapable of separating the Cosby case from the separate but related issue of removal of subjectively "offensive" symbols. I never once defended Cosby (in fact said I understood why Disney was removing his bust). But that didn't stop a number of people here like Waltdizzy and Chipndale from erroneously equating my concerns over the increasingly broadening attacks on items under the generic banner of "they are deeply offensive to X-Y -Z" with being a defense of Cosby.

But now let me turn the tables back on them. Since they apparently equate all claims of "offense" as being equally justified, that must mean they fully agree with the people who want to remove the Jefferson Memorial and rename Washington D.C. because that structure and name offend some because their namesakes owned slaves.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/video-d-c-residents-say-take-down-jefferson-memorial-rename-washington-d-c/

...not sure how else to understand your post, but calling this the "slippery slope" (as you referenced in your second post) definitely implies something.

Edit: To clarify, since my initial post is vague.

The definition of "slippery slope":

an idea or course of action which will lead to something unacceptable, wrong, or disastrous.

Your post seems to imply that removing the bust of a modern-day sexual abuser will lead to what you determine is "something unacceptable, wrong, or disastrous." (In your words, Disney removing things that "offend" people.) When people say "slippery slope" there's usually a strong connotation that the speaker thinks the original action shouldn't be done. You don't generally call an action that seems appropriate/the right thing to do a "slippery slope."

Although maybe you didn't mean it that way, the way you phrased things implied that removing the bust was a negative action by the above logic. The parentheses around offends also seems to mean that the people who are offended don't have the right to be so. Using it in relation to the Cosby implies negativity, even if you didn't mean it that way.

Again, I'm not trying to start the ~DrAmA~ but what bothers me about the whole "yeah he was a rapist but that doesn't mean his acting shouldn't be rewarded" is that it's not giving rape the proper reverence it deserves. Like, we wouldn't say that the same thing about murder, would we? No one ever says, "Yeah, John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln but he was such a good actor before. Let's give him a place in our Hall of Fame."

Even if you want to make the argument that murder is a bigger deal then rape - which yes, obviously, being killed is the worst possible outcome that can happen to you in life - would we say the same thing if Cosby tortured people in his basement? Would we say, "Well, yeah, he hurt people and emotionally scarred them in his basement, but he was a great actor and nothing can change that!" ...especially since rape has emotional consquences for some time? What if he was a child predator? Would we feel the same way, then?

Ah. I realize that this is getting overly political for a Disney board, but I had to speak my piece.

It's probably time for me to back out and go join in on less controversial discussions. Like the revamp of HS and whether Avatarland is a good idea or not. :rolleyes1
 
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Your post seems to imply that removing the bust of a modern-day sexual abuser will lead to what you determine is "something unacceptable, wrong, or disastrous."

With all due respect, you didn't just spin the meaning of the term "imply" you whipped it around your head and hurled it like an olympic discus thrower.

Here is exactly what I said (emphasis added so certain key terms don't get missed):

I understand this decision, but wonder if we will eventually also see petitions requesting the George Washington and Thomas Jefferson figures be removed from the Hall of Presidents, since they were both slaveholders.

Your interpretation of what I said was apparently "all sorts of other inappropriate requests to remove other things from Disney will occur because of the decision to remove the Cosby bust."

That is not what I said. I stated that the Cosby decision (which I understood, ergo, did not disagree with) simply prompted me to wonder what other things might become future issues at Disney. Yes, I did also state that there IMHO is a growing question of whether our societal desire to never offend anyone over anything is leading us down a path of what be can only be called universal intolerance (a realm in which everyone has a non-negotiable right to demand the banning of anything they find "offensive" ).

But I did not, repeat, did NOT say that ugly trend was started because of the decision to remove the Cosby bust. That erroneous, flawed connection is a function of the fact some here are incapable of separating their fury at Cosby from a different (and larger) issue I happened to raise. Or put another way, they make the screwy equation that any mention there may be broader issues with over-reacting to "offense" is somehow a defense of Cosby.:rolleyes1 :sad2: :rolleyes1 :sad2:
 
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But that didn't stop a number of people here like Waltdizzy and Chipndale from erroneously equating my concerns over the increasingly broadening attacks on items under the generic banner of "they are deeply offensive to X-Y -Z" with being a defense of Cosby.

Because you said this:

What is of concern -- which I hope nobody here is excusing -- is the increasingly slippery slope we seem to be getting into where anything that "offends" anyone has to be banned/removed

I refuse to get into a back and forth with you on this, but if you're going to call me out specifically in a post then I have to respond. I don't think you were defending Cosby, what I thought you were trying to do is relate this to the whole "PC" topic that's going on around this country, IMO the two are not related.
 
Sorry, but it's exactly the same thing. Being impaired limits your ability to consent.

Being impaired DOES limit your ability to consent. But that's not what he admitted to. (Note: I'm just going by what he said in the deposition. I'm not saying he didn't actually take advantage of those women)

He admitted to buying drugs for women he wanted to have sex with, NOT to drugging women he wanted to have sex with. He also never actually admitted to giving the drugs to the women, just to acquiring them.
 
what I thought you were trying to do is relate this to the whole "PC" topic that's going on around this country, IMO the two are not related.

IMHO, you are correct on one point above but not the other.

Yes, I was pointing out that a change in an exhibit made at Disney that was the result of external advocacy (erg, a petition which some here are disingenuously stating has nothing whatsoever to do with the removal of the bust :rolleyes1 ) which raised the question of whether we would see future efforts by other advocates to pressure Disney to remove/censor/change content/emblems/whatever that said advocates feel are "offensive." I appreciate the fact you properly stated I was trying to relate what some call "cultural cleansing" to the bust removal, but was not stating or implying that meant the removal of the Cosby bust was wrong.

But what I don't feel you are correct on is how the removal of a bust based upon changes in how the individual represented is perceived is "not at all" related to the larger "PC" topic. What you are probably thinking is the "PC" efforts are focused on symbols, not on specific individuals. That's incorrect, we are already in an environment where individual owners of some businesses are being vilified and boycotted by specific groups because they object to being compelled to provide products or services in situations that conflict with their religious values. Or put another way, future efforts by advocacy groups to get Disney to remove something could be related to a celebrity where the advocacy group simply doesn't agree with his/her political viewpoints. Again, the larger issue is the growing willingness of pressure groups to demand changes -- including the banning of symbols or destruction of emblems -- based upon the general, broad claim of "being offended."
 
I couldn't really care less if they kept it or removed it. Surprised so many feel so strongly about it. I was kind of unhappy when they brought back Captain EO after the whole Michael Jackson thing, but I guess it is more acceptable because of him being found not guilty, whereas Cosby has actually admitted guilt.

OK - this might come off as very opinionated, which I am not...but I think it's pretty pathetic that even though 40 women accuse the guy of something, nothing is done, yet evidence of him admitting, suddenly now it's a bad thing. Same thing with Micheal Jackson. He's a child molester so they take EO out of the parks in the '90s, but then he dies so suddenly he's OK again. I just don't get it. Either they're bad people or they're not.

Anyways, I think it's the right thing to take it out.
 
I'm glad that Cosby's bust was taken down. As for the side topic dinolounger is trying to stir up again ... *yawn* ... there she goes beating that dead horse again complete with the same "slippery slope" argument. It wasn't valid the other three times she's used it in the past two weeks and it's not valid now.
 
Is it bad to say that I'm kind of glad? After the revelation this past week I don't think we needed what happened on his Walk of Fame star on his bust here
 
But what I don't feel you are correct on is how the removal of a bust based upon changes in how the individual represented is perceived is "not at all" related to the larger "PC" topic. What you are probably thinking is the "PC" efforts are focused on symbols, not on specific individuals. That's incorrect, we are already in an environment where individual owners of some businesses are being vilified and boycotted by specific groups because they object to being compelled to provide products or services in situations that conflict with their religious values. Or put another way, future efforts by advocacy groups to get Disney to remove something could be related to a celebrity where the advocacy group simply doesn't agree with his/her political viewpoints. Again, the larger issue is the growing willingness of pressure groups to demand changes -- including the banning of symbols or destruction of emblems -- based upon the general, broad claim of "being offended."

You have your opinion on it, and I have mine. To me Disney basically said, we arent having this in our park because we arent going to honor a rapist.

You can connect the dots to the PC argument sure, but that's one hell of a long line to do so.

This is a Disney board, so I don't think we want to get onto the political conversation regarding the LGBT movement that I believe you're referring to.

I just don't think the removal of the Cosby bust at DHS is a slope to other "PC" things, but then again, I also try not to make everything so darn political.
 
I'm glad that Cosby's bust was taken down. As for the side topic

Ah ha, someone (likely blinded by the agony of a big chip on their shoulder) let it slip that yes, the Cosby scandal and the increasingly zealous PC movement are not the same issue. Touche! :tongue:

the same "slippery slope" argument.

Which to those not in denial is becoming more visible by the hour:

Wal-Mart has announced it is removing all "Confederate" merchandise from its stores.

EBay has announced they will no longer allow the sales of Confederate (read: battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) flags or any other memorabilia (albeit a quick check shows they have a long way to go in enforcing that.)

Amazon has announced it will no longer sell items with the now verboten image of the Confederate (read: battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) flag.

Tennessee lawmakers are demanding that a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest be removed from the statehouse.

Baltimore lawmakers want to rename Robert E. Lee Park.

Dallas lawmakers are considering demands to rename Stonewall Jackson Elementary School.

St. Louis lawmakers are debating over the future of a confederate statue in a city park.

Commissioners in Hillsborough, North Carolina are debating whether to remove the words “Confederate Memorial” from a Confederate memorial.

Nascar is trying to ban the flying of the Confederate (read: battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) flag on the infields of racetracks.

TVland has stopped showing re-runs of the "Dukes of Hazzard" due to the auto driven by the principal characters having a Confederate (read: battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia) flag on the roof.

Yep, "Robin," no slippery slope at all. :sad2: :rolleyes1 :sad2: :rolleyes1
 

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