Disney is just not the same anymore!!!

[lugnut33]

I don't have a problem with change, but I do have a problem with the current management at Disney. They have extracted higher and higher prices for the sake of profit without increased value. They are burning through the good will of their best visitors and giving less value in return. From the high gate prices, insane room and food costs, they have lost the Disney imagination in exchange for spreadsheets and that shows in the park experience.

Management has a fiduciary responsibility to it's stockholders and in my opinion the current Disney management is failing the long term interests and value for the stockholders.

I cannot top this post.

Every thing they are doing is based on money and profits. I hate being seen as a profit center instead of a guest. Heck, look at the Maelstrom makeover, all it's going to be is same ride with Frozen scenes laid in. Most of it will probably be video too.

 

[Jennasis]

On that note, quoting you entire post didn't provide any additional helpful context. Sure you say first time visits may be up--but how do you know that repeat business is down? How do you know either point to be valid?

The DIS does not make for good statistical sampling. And the question remains: what is the source for your claims?

He clearly stated those thoughts were his own feelings.

 

[wisblue]

Again, I think even the above statement depends on how one toured.

For those of us that toured by land, grabbing a fp and staying in that land (or its nearby vicinity) until the fp return time came up, yes, using legacy effectively was as easy as "insert ticket, take pass."

I completly understand that many did not tour that way and legacy didn't work that way for them. But for those of us that did, we are not pretending or exaggerating when we say legacy was that simple for us.

Sure, things depend upon how one tours, but first time and infrequent visitors don't really know how they want to tour. And I'm focusing on which system is easier for those guests.

I think frequent visitors often forget that their touring style was something they developed and fine tuned over a series of visits. I know we don't approach the parks the same way in 2014 as we did when we first visited with our daughters in 1991.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If making FP+ reservations were easier, I might agree with you. But as Magic Bob said in a previous post: sign up for MDE, pick 3 FP rides you don't want, then pick times you don't want, then go back in the system to pick rides you do want for times you don't want and then go back in the system and try to get the rides and times you do want. It's a poorly designed program.

I think eliminating all FP's would be better for guest experience than the current system.

I do agree with this...the system is just clunkily designed. I ended up choosing the rides I wanted, but picking times at the complete opposite time of day that I wanted, so that I could see the full availability of slots during the times I really wanted the FP+ for.

The only reason I knew that MDE wasn't showing me the full availability if I was trying to alter times within the same part of the day is because of the DIS. Knowing that trick helped me tremendously, but it's not something first timers who have not ever been to the DIS would necessarily realize/figure out while they're booking.

There are a lot of tips and tricks one needs to know to fully effectively use FP+ (and by use, I simply mean interact with the MDE interface..not talking about any personal touring plan decisions)

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

and thank goodness...

I find there is so much negativity on the boards these days, even about small changes. I think hard core Disney fans seem to have difficulty accepting change - perhaps because of the many good past memories, nostalgia involved.

I do get it - I don't like every change either but I personally am glad to see Disney is trying to do some things which likely are in response to guest feedback:
- Avatarland - bring it, it might be incredible (and yes, star wars would be even better);
- backlot tour is gone - about time don't you think?;
- Axe the hat at Disney studios - well done I know I never have said I can't wait to see the hat;
- FP+ - nice option for those who don't want to get to parks so early (which isn't me btw);
- Starbucks - life changing, thank goodness, the coffee sucked before;
- Malestrom being Frozen - great, updating a boring ride with something for the kids
- DTD expansion - yes to more restaurants, shopping, entertainment

For the most part I agree. I do agree with the overall premise. I have been going regularly since 1998, overall since 1980 and still love it as much as ever, if not more. I did like Backlot Tour but can see a better use of all that territory. I am going in about 7 weeks for my second trip this year and cannot wait!

 

[minnie mum]

I've not read this entire thread so perhaps this has been addressed but why do they make you choose between Soarin' and TT? I've got FPs for all of our 'target' rides for our upcoming trip but had to choose between Soarin and TT because we're hopping to MK on our 2nd Epcot day and are using that day's FPs in MK. We'll RD TT so I'm not worried about missing it.

But I don't get why there isn't enough capacity to give FPs for both rides. ISTM that allowing people to book FPs for both rides at Epcot would make the lines more manageable for both rides. Also if we had FPs for both on the same day, we would be more relaxed as we walked through the park and would probably end up spending more money on food, etc. because we wouldn't worry about the lines.

Anyone know the reason behind this?

I'm going to take a stab at this.

Let's say there are 1000 guests in the park. Ridiculous, I know, but bear with me. Tiering means that they can only select FP for one of two equally popular rides. On average, half will select one ride and half will select the other. 500 guests at each ride.

Now take the same number of guests and no tiering. The same 2 equally popular rides. Its no surprise if nearly all of the guests get fps for both rides. You have just doubled the demand on each ride.

Multiply this by 50 or more, and you can see what would happen. FPs would run out on the 60 day booking day (or close to it) and standby lines would be long. There aren't enough other rides in the park that are popular enough to reduce the demand for these 2 rides. So they restrict access and force guests over to the less popular attractions.

Or you could just look at it as an evil plot to force unsuspecting people into watching Capt. Eo.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Sure, things depend upon how one tours, but first time and infrequent visitors don't really know how they want to tour. And I'm focusing on which system is easier for those guests.

While there are definitely those who do no research before trips, that isn't everyone. There are many first time visitors/infrequent visitors who do research, and do find touringplans.com and easyWDW - or who have friends who DISers/Disney lovers and direct them to such sources. I wouldn't assume that one being a first time or infrequent visitor means they have no idea how they want to tour.

I think frequent visitors often forget that their touring style was something they developed and fine tuned over a series of visits. I know we don't approach the parks the same way in 2014 as we did when we first visited with our daughters in 1991.

My first trip to WDW as an adult (aka, when I could make my own touring decisions) was my honeymoon in 2006. We went again in 2007, and then not again until 2013 when we went twice (once with each set of grandparents). Aside from the changes in touring plans that came with having an infant along in 2013, I can very honestly say that our touring style has changed very little since 2006.

Knowledge became more ingrained as opposed to having to look it up online (simple things like heading to Frontierland at RD virtually guarantees back to back rides on BTMRR, as the whole area is empty), but how we physically went through the park changed very very little.

I can appreciate that your experience is different, as you have been going for a much longer time than I have. I respect that. Please respect that I am being honest with what our experience is as well.

 

[wisblue]

If making FP+ reservations were easier, I might agree with you. But as Magic Bob said in a previous post: sign up for MDE, pick 3 FP rides you don't want, then pick times you don't want, then go back in the system to pick rides you do want for times you don't want and then go back in the system and try to get the rides and times you do want. It's a poorly designed program.

I think eliminating all FP's would be better for guest experience than the current system.

I would be fine with eliminating all FPs, but I don't see that happening.

If I wanted to take a Rube Goldberg approach to describing how to get a paper FP, I could do that too.

But, there is no reason at all to pick rides you don't want to make FP+ reservations. So, the first two steps you quoted are totally unnecessary. Many of us pick TIMES we don't want so that we can change them into exactly what we want. But, you don't have to do that. If you don't care about return times all you have to do is pick 3 rides and accept the times they give you. And just like that you would have 3 FPs. That would compare to:

1. Walk to ride 1.

2. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

3. Later, go to ride 2.("Later" is defined as the earlier of 2 hours from now or the return time of your current pass).

4. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party

5. Later, go to ride 3.

6. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

That sounds to me like more effort to get 3 FPs for my party than what you can do with FP+, but maybe it's just me.

 

[wen8jr]

Yeah, I don't believe he's right on that one. We went a MNSSHP years back and it was wonderful- much closer to Halloween than this one but the crowd was extremely easy to navigate and had no problems at all.

This one- You would've thought the rain would've thinned things out, but it didn't. We gave up at 11 or so, just because there was no point. Wall to wall people, this is the night my daughter got hurt while sitting waiting for the first parade- crowds were beyond crazy.

The 2 trips were as different as they could be and we couldn't believe it. We thought going early, there was no way it would be crowded- I believe it was a sell out from what I read here.

At any rate, not for a second do I think they're selling fewer tickets.

Same exact experience for us - 2007 vs 2014. In 2007 the event truly felt special, there were plenty of people but it was certainly not wall to wall. In 2014, all we done was wade through people and waited in lines. The park was no less crowded for the party than during the day - maybe even more crowded. People were shoving into each other during the parades. The 2nd parade started late - no idea why but truly aggravating with it being so packed and people right on top of each other. Not a good experience at all and we felt it was a waste of our money.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I would agree that the physical act of obtaining a paper FP was very simple once a guest knew that he or she was eligible to use the system.

But, as we all know, being able to perform that physical act has very little to do with the more important value of FPs, which is using them in an effective way to enable a guest to better enjoy their time in the park.

So, maybe the relevant question isn't which FP system is physically "easier" for a first time or infrequent guest, but which is more "useful" to help that guest have a better experience. And, my opinion is that FP+ is more useful for these guests because it allows them to get FPs before they leave home for some attractions that they have identified as their first choices.

With paper FP, those guests had to try to round up FPs in the park while they were trying to familiarize themselves with the layout of the parks and the location of attractions, and then get the feel for how to be in the right place at the right time to both use the FP they had and claim the next one. And then they might have to change their plans on the fly if a return time for a FP didn't fit with other plans, like meals or taking a break from the parks.

It's just my opinion, but let's not pretend that using paper FP EFFECTIVELY was as simple as "insert ticket..take pass".

Of course knowledge and experience has always made FP use more effective. But I think that it is actually much easier to judge which rides to use FP on if you are in the park seeing the crowds and the wait times. How many guests identify as their "first choices" attractions that are very appealing but don't really need FP, like Small World or Beauty and the Beast? Even if you've done tons of research and obsessively studied online crowd calendars, a little rain or chilly temperatures changes crowd patterns.

I think FP+ results in a better park experience for some new or infrequent guests because it has been better marketed than FP, especially to onsite guests, and encourages guests to do pre-planning, rather than showing up with no research or plans at all. It's much worse than ever for those who don't plan, but I admit FP+ does reduce the number of no-planners.

 

[flicx]

I would be fine with eliminating all FPs, but I don't see that happening.

If I wanted to take a Rube Goldberg approach to describing how to get a paper FP, I could do that too.

But, there is no reason at all to pick rides you don't want to make FP+ reservations. So, the first two steps you quoted are totally unnecessary. Many of us pick TIMES we don't want so that we can change them into exactly what we want. But, you don't have to do that. If you don't care about return times all you have to do is pick 3 rides and accept the times they give you. And just like that you would have 3 FPs. That would compare to:

1. Walk to ride 1.

2. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

3. Later, go to ride 2.("Later" is defined as the earlier of 2 hours from now or the return time of your current pass).

4. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party

5. Later, go to ride 3.

6. Insert ticket, get pass. Repeat for each member of your party.

That sounds to me like more effort to get 3 FPs for my party than what you can do with FP+, but maybe it's just me.

You are ignoring the most important thing in the argument. No tiers for legacy. I get to choose the rides I want not a preplanned group for 2 choices. Not to mention I can go seamlessly from park to park.

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

One thing I found with my first experience with FP+ is I end up getting more FP for the day than I did the old way. And I don't have to be there right at 9 am to get the good rides, I can do that at home and if I choose set the FP for later in the day and not arrive right at rope drop. My last day at MK I was able to ride 9 FP+ rides, under legacy I think my record was 6. Yes the tiering is a negative, but if you are flexible (i.e. willing to ride the single rider line) it can be worked around. For example, at Epcot I will get a FP for Soarin' but ride the single rider line at Test Track.

 

[Suvadoo]

One thing I found with my first experience with FP+ is I end up getting more FP for the day than I did the old way. And I don't have to be there right at 9 am to get the good rides, I can do that at home and if I choose set the FP for later in the day and not arrive right at rope drop. My last day at MK I was able to ride 9 FP+ rides, under legacy I think my record was 6. Yes the tiering is a negative, but if you are flexible (i.e. willing to ride the single rider line) it can be worked around. For example, at Epcot I will get a FP for Soarin' but ride the single rider line at Test Track.

How many people are in your party? I think you posted previously that you were a solo traveler.

 

[CTDisneyfan816]

How many people are in your party? I think you posted previously that you were a solo traveler.

Most of the time it's solo. This time in July was one exception when I went to Epcot with one friends. We went in the single rider line at Test Track and pretty much got right on.

 

[wisblue]

You are ignoring the most important thing in the argument. No tiers for legacy. I get to choose the rides I want not a preplanned group for 2 choices. Not to mention I can go seamlessly from park to park.

I'm not addressing that because that isn't the topic of this specific discussion. Here I am simply addressing which system makes it easier for a first time or infrequent visitor to get 3 FPs for rides they want at times that work for them.

For guests who don't have hoppers and are visiting the MK, the issues of tiers and hopping aren't even factors.

 

[wisblue]

While there are definitely those who do no research before trips, that isn't everyone. There are many first time visitors/infrequent visitors who do research, and do find touringplans.com and easyWDW - or who have friends who DISers/Disney lovers and direct them to such sources. I wouldn't assume that one being a first time or infrequent visitor means they have no idea how they want

I am not and was not making that assumption.

In fact, first time guests who do no advance research aren't going to get much benefit out of either system. Either way they would probably have to ask a CM how FPs work or not get FPs at all.

I am focusing on guests who do enough research to have an idea what they want to do. It is my opinion that a lot of those guests appreciate having reservations in advance for 3 things they are pretty sure they want to do instead of having to execute a strategy on the fly.

When I make a rare visit to Disneyland over Christmas break this year, I know I would much rather have 3 FPs in hand for 3 of their 7 FP attractions than to hope that my studying of the park maps and predicted wait times will produce the results I would like.

 

[ttintagel]

Not liking particular, specific changes is not the same as not liking change at all. It's a false equivalency, and one I see bandied about on the boards far too often.

 

[Laketravis]

I like FP+, I really do,
But not certain parts, this is true
The parts that don't work well for me
Is that I'm limited to only three
The tiering part I find to suck
It doesn't give much bang for the buck
Getting them in one park only
Makes park hoppers somewhat phony
Reserving online so far in advance
Is the only way to have a chance
But I like FP+, I really do,
What parts of it don't work for you?

 

[Luvchefmic]

I like FP+, I really do,
But not certain parts, this is true
The parts that don't work well for me
Is that I'm limited to only three
The tiering part I find to suck
It doesn't give much bang for the buck
Getting them in one park only
Makes park hoppers somewhat phony
Reserving online so far in advance
Is the only way to have a chance
But I like FP+, I really do,
What parts of it don't work for you?

I like you more and more

 

[Angel Ariel]

I am not and was not making that assumption.

Then I apologize, because your previous post very much cane across that way.

I am focusing on guests who do enough research to have an idea what they want to do. It is my opinion that a lot of those guests appreciate having reservations in advance for 3 things they are pretty sure they want to do instead of having to execute a strategy on the fly.

I'm sure there are many who do appreciate it. I have never argued otherwise.

I am also sure there are many first timers who are overwhelmed by the preplanning, as that has been my experience when first timers have come to me for help planning their vacation since FP+ began.

I may be misinterpreting your choice to.ignore the last half of my response to you, and if so I apologize again, but I do find it interesting that I do nothing but respect that your experiences are different than mine, say so, apologize when I misinterpret something (as above), and yet you dismiss my experiences as you did in your last post (chalking my experience up to us being frequent visitors and evolving our touring style), without so much as an acknowledgment when I respond with that not being the case for us. I have no reason to pretend or exaggerate.