Breaking Point for Disney Cost

[mi*vida*loca]

Domestically, I' m not sure that more peopple have disposable income. The middle class in the US is shrinking. I think it's more of a case that the people with disposable income have more of it. And Disney is catering to those people with premium packages and special events.



We don't spend very much money on our beach trips either. The ocean and the pool are enough entertainment for our kids.

My kids are also fine with the beach. We will do the boardwalk at night (Jersey shore) and get a few ice cream cones, play a few carnival games and one day do the rides or water park. No way am I dropping $200 a day on food or $1600 a week on park tickets.

 

[Tarheel girl 1975]

The wealthy never stopped coming to WDW (where WDW was a vacation choice to begin with) - they were not sufficiently impacted by the recession to stop. The increased crowds ARE coming from the middle class. Though it may be shrinking, the recovering economy has people willing to spend more now than they have in the last 6 years. This is evident everywhere, including in the recovering home prices.

So, while their incomes may not have produced more disposable income, they are willing to spend more on vacations - hence the increased crowds at places like WDW.

Some people's investment portfolios took a big hit during the recession. Of course, they are also some of the people benefitting the most from the rebounding economy.

Yes, there are packages aimed at the wealthy, but the crowds are primarily just regular folks getting by the best that they can and trying to squeeze a little more joy from this life for themselves and their families.

You could also argue that travel and tourism as an industry are up as more people are taking the vacations they put off for years. That trend may not continue.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

You could also argue that travel and tourism as an industry are up as more people are taking the vacations they put off for years. That trend may not continue.

For everyone's sake, I hope that you are wrong. I tend to be an optimist.

 

[DisneyPrince1982]

The wealthy never stopped coming to WDW (where WDW was a vacation choice to begin with) - they were not sufficiently impacted by the recession to stop. The increased crowds ARE coming from the middle class. Though it may be shrinking, the recovering economy has people willing to spend more now than they have in the last 6 years. This is evident everywhere, including in the recovering home prices.

Are there stats to back this up? Personally, I think the crowds are just coming from people who are living beyond their means. They're either hoping their future will improve or simply deciding to live in the now rather than plan for the future. There is economic research that indicates that a great majority of people in their 20s and 30s have absolutely 0 savings. This means that people are simply putting the Disney trips on their credit cards and scrambling like hell to pay it off.

 

[shalom]

What's your breaking point for deciding the cost no longer justifies the experience?

Can't say, but apparently we haven't reached it yet. We normally do National Parks or use our various museum/zoo/garden memberships or otherwise manage to have pretty cheap vacations, and most places we go are within an 11-hour drive. Disney tickets are by far the most expensive per day attraction price we pay, even doing 10 days at the park, and getting there is a 17 hour drive (which we usually break up with hotel stays). But although we were going to do just one day in the parks (a MNSSHP night) and then do Universal next time, we're back to thinking we'll be doing the WDW parks again.

But I've seen people burn out on Disney, which I think factors in. Going every two years (on average) and not doing the WDW parks every time, I think we'll last a while. We also spread the cost out considerable; I suspect that buying the tickets months ahead of time softens the blow, for instance, as does using the Visa rewards card and Disney gift cards to pay for food and whatnot while we're onsite.

Domestically, I' m not sure that more people have disposable income. The middle class in the US is shrinking. I think it's more of a case that the people with disposable income have more of it.

The middle class has been shrinking since the 1970s, but until 2000 or so, much of that shrinkage was balanced by growth in the upper class. In other words, as the percentage of people in the middle class shrank, the percentage of people in the upper class grew. Since 2000, the percentage of people in the upper class has dropped a bit, but not nearly as fast as it rose, so that the percentage of people in the upper class is still much higher than it was most of my lifetime. Add in the fact that there are more people overall because the population as a whole has expanded, and that's a lot of people with more money to spend than they used to have.

Plus the people who are moving from middle class to upper class tend to be older than has been the case historically. It's people 65 and older who are moving up at the highest rate -- and it's people in that age range who are also most able to take vacations, since they are retired or semi-retired. I expect there's a higher percentage of "grandma and grandpa taking the kids and grandkids to Disney" than there used to be.

 

[Planogirl]

I doubt that very many of the truly wealthy spend much time at Disney parks. I can see that much of the crowd is likely upper tier plus people from other countries though.

I wonder if anyone has ever published an analysis of who is going to the Disney parks? I see a lot of conjecture here but who knows what the truth is.

 

[shalom]

I wonder if anyone has ever published an analysis of who is going to the Disney parks? I see a lot of conjecture here but who knows what the truth is.

I have no doubt at all that Disney has a pretty good idea of who is going, but they don't share that info much. Two bits that show up a lot in interviews with Disney executives are that "About 70% of Disney’s visitors on any given day have been there before" and "The average customer comes back every three years for life" (which second seemed a lot more suspect to me before I started hanging out on the Dis!). I've also seen comments that most of their customers come in family groups, although I don't recall any numbers on that. But I've never seen the tiniest hint from a Disney employee about average customer income. Everyone I know who has gone or who goes regularly has a middle to upper-middle income, and I would guess the middle class and the lower end of the upper class is where most Disney customers come from, but I suppose it's possible the rich go a lot more than I realize.

 

[Planogirl]

I have no doubt at all that Disney has a pretty good idea of who is going, but they don't share that info much. Two bits that show up a lot in interviews with Disney executives are that "About 70% of Disney’s visitors on any given day have been there before" and "The average customer comes back every three years for life" (which second seemed a lot more suspect to me before I started hanging out on the Dis!). I've also seen comments that most of their customers come in family groups, although I don't recall any numbers on that. But I've never seen the tiniest hint from a Disney employee about average customer income. Everyone I know who has gone or who goes regularly has a middle to upper-middle income, and I would guess the middle class and the lower end of the upper class is where most Disney customers come from, but I suppose it's possible the rich go a lot more than I realize.

I can't point to anything that proves this but I have heard over the years that themeparks in general don't seem to appeal to the ultra-rich. They might be more interested now that a hotel more of their type has been built on property though.

I agree that most of the clientele is likely middle class to lower upper class. I would bet that most of the middle class visitors tend to be from middle to higher tier too. It's interesting to think about.

 

[MomofKatie]

Think about how many movie stars and famous athletes (and their families) are seen at WDW and DL every year. Most of them are firmly in the "rich" category.

 

[JasonMouse]

You can afford it if you don't have kids!

 

[momtosam]

We are getting there. Probably won't pay to stay onsite again.

 

[aprincessatlast]

Think about how many movie stars and famous athletes (and their families) are seen at WDW and DL every year. Most of them are firmly in the "rich" category.

Now DL does have lots of stars come to play but WDW ...Meh overall I would not think that many.

Granted I did stand behind Kobe Bryant at WDW once but still can't think of more than a few of these "rich" stars I have heard of visiting WDW.

For us:
When you can travel internationally and experience just as much for the same amount, WDW really looses its appeal and those so called "rose colored" glasses come off. The lets charge more and get less approach has put a cap on what this family will pay for nostalgia. However I am under no illusion that WDW misses us. lol

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Think about how many movie stars and famous athletes (and their families) are seen at WDW and DL every year. Most of them are firmly in the "rich" category.

I think that most who are "first generation" wealthy still hold on to their childhood fancies. So, for them, WDW would still be a draw. Those who represent second or third generation wealth are less likely to have something like WDW on their "must do" list. Their dream vacations are more "global" in nature.

 

[Davey Jones II]

In all honesty, there's no way we could afford our theme park vacations if we didn't skrimp, scrounge and save all year round. Extreme frugality, and personal sacrifices, are what permit us to dream about our next trip.

I wouldn't recommend it for anyone else, but I know that others are in the same boat; their vacations are a top priority for them, and they make it happen by sacrificing other things. And even if their next trip is far off, it's always good to have something to look forward to.

 

[MrInfinity]

I doubt that very many of the truly wealthy spend much time at Disney parks. I can see that much of the crowd is likely upper tier plus people from other countries though.

I agree. Theme parks in general are a blue collar activity. It's willingly being subjected to large crowds, lines, and sweaty heat, all to ride rides... all things the wealthy could avoid. The middle class family is, and will always be, the target audience of Disney World. As to whether or not the middle class is shrinking... just depends on how you define it. You could say 67%-200% of the median income. In that case it makes the middle class in IL something like $37,000-$112,000 income -- which is pretty much everyone I know.

 

[mi*vida*loca]

I work for a lot of wealthy surgeons. Disney, to them, is a once in a lifetime trip that they give their children because they feel it's a must. But just once.

Yes they do it big by staying in a villa, doing club level, great view. They just book. No renting points. No searching out deals. Their wives make dining reservations. They may do a tour to avoid lines.

But that's it. They won't go again. They prefer to go to Atlantis, Greece, Italy, etc.

It's us commoners in the office that do WDW over and over again. Most "rich" people I know don't want to bother with WDW.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I work for a lot of wealthy surgeons. Disney, to them, is a once in a lifetime trip that they give their children because they feel it's a must. But just once.

Yes they do it big by staying in a villa, doing club level, great view. They just book. No renting points. No searching out deals. Their wives make dining reservations. They may do a tour to avoid lines.

But that's it. They won't go again. They prefer to go to Atlantis, Greece, Italy, etc.

It's us commoners in the office that do WDW over and over again. Most "rich" people I know don't want to bother with WDW.

I agree, the wealthy definitely go, but it's as an obligation to their kids and they will dole out money to make it as painless as possible lol. But overall, I think it's a firmly middle-class destination.

 

[polineedyan]

We are by no means wealthy. We try to stay even with investments vs our debts. We rarely charge and when we do, its for emergency large purchases- not extravagancies. We both have mid level income jobs and 2 kids. We started coming to disney when our older kids were still here giving us a party of 6. This was about 2000. We flew the first two trips (both were within a year of eachother.) One was with Continental in the summer and then Airtran in the fall. I think we flew again the following summer with all 6 on Airtran. We usually found good package deals..ie kids play and eat free, buy 4 get 2 or whatever that was..etc. The plane fare was usually 89 or 96..plus whatever. All in all, we took a lot of people to Disney for a good price. We started doing it as a one and done, but we just keep finding deals. Deals that were so much better than going to Niagara Falls, the beach, a sporting event. When we figured the cost of gas, food, rooms, tickets, retail items, tolls, it just kept coming out that we'd rather just go to Florida.
Since then, our touring has had to change. Plane fares recovered, deals are harder to come by. Most good deals require taking the kids out of school which as they get older Im less likely to do..we soccer all year..so planning a little harder.Cant just jump off when we find the deals.
Its about 900 miles to Disney. Our kids ride in the car very well for the most part their only downfall being when they start to have "too much" fun back there. We can get there in under 3 tanks (i think..) with one stayover. We drive maybe 8 hours each of the 2 days. For under $200, we can get there with reasonably no headaches.
We always stay at POP. Not to downplay the other value resorts, but we just prefer pop. It may be nice to stay in Music again as we have enjoyed that. When we first started going you could get POP for 89 plus tax. Now, its pretty rare to see it under $100 (maybe with some discount hunting on the side..) but not thru Disney itself. When you get into the 177 range, thats pretty steep to stay multiple days. In order to take advantage of the multi day ticket discount, you really have to pay alot of room nights. Its easier for us as a family to take less days in the parks and just hang at the resort, but there is value in buying multi day tickets. You would think they would follow the same model for the rooms but they dont. In fact, multi days almost always will land you on weekend rate which kinda stinks too. Dont quote mods or deluxe, you mind will be blown. I could do deluxe if my kids were helping pay lol or if we shared with other adults..but to take 2 adults and 2 kids is in many cases 200 a night per adult when we split it. I expect alot for that and I've stayed deluxe and I dont think its there. I dont see the value in deluxe.Many do-I dont. Maybe someday..but by then GF will be 1k a night..Im okay with Pop. The bus takes you to the gate, no need to sleep across from MK or have a giraffe outside the window. We'll take the Sandhill Cranes and lizards for free, thank you.
I always talk up the dining plan.It is a deal. The quick service is fine. I've paid the character meals and luaus and I found the food and entertainment to be sub par. We saw the folks for the dessert party line, they looked miserable. The desserts were pretty, but many are available at Goofy's Candy and are made fresh there. The reviews for the dessert party are not good. SO, we were jealous when we saw them, but we were full and recharged on our qs cheeseburgers and chicken fingers and ready to ride. They paid more to be unhappy. I say always use the qsd.
This past trip we also included other sites around Florida and up the east coast. We made good choices on rooms and entertainment. We took advantage of free breakfast when we could. There was gas and tolls..hours in the car. There was always a sense of regret when renting a room. We usually paid about 110 and were meh. Then you had to hunt out your food..use public facilities..and it still ended up costing an arm and a leg and even tho one of the attractions was free, we still regretted it because we drove 3 hours to stay for 3 hours.And then hunt out a room and hope for free breakfast and no bugs and a pool. A little better planning would alleviate that..but again, these arent worries we have at Disney. I just kept thinking "we shouldve stayed there.even without tickets."
My worry is the room charge. They are getting steep. I know we pretty much went during peak. I'd probably rather go in the cooler seasons, and that is when the deals come. But when you can get a decent room in town for around 100, or better a home for a week, Disney resorts are going to have to keep those room costs down. For us, we'd love to buy a whole weeks tickets and get the discount..but 177 X 7 for room is just too much. For us, even 120 is pushing it.
But when you compare it to going anywhere else, its still a value. Just my opinion.

 

[starsweeper]

We're a family of 6, so even if DH doesn't go on a trip we still have 5 and that makes rooms more expensive. The tiered pricing would definitely impact us. For now, we're choosing to either make one trip a year or every other year during fall break. We're building a house and selling, so we're in a holding pattern now to see how that impacts funds for vacation.

Honestly, the kids and I love WDW but we also loved our Badlands/Yellowstone trip this summer as well. We want to visit most of the national parks, major cities, go to as many states as possible, and when the kids are older, see portions of the world. WDW will never be our only vacation spot.

 

[ilovebassets]

I work for a lot of wealthy surgeons. Disney, to them, is a once in a lifetime trip that they give their children because they feel it's a must. But just once.

Yes they do it big by staying in a villa, doing club level, great view. They just book. No renting points. No searching out deals. Their wives make dining reservations. They may do a tour to avoid lines.

But that's it. They won't go again. They prefer to go to Atlantis, Greece, Italy, etc.

It's us commoners in the office that do WDW over and over again. Most "rich" people I know don't want to bother with WDW.

I may not be a wealthy surgeon but I am a wealthy anesthesiologist (with my family hitting the 1% for the first time this year). Myself and one other anesthesiologist I work with go to Disneyworld over and over again. And believe me, I am hunting for deals left and right between gift cards, Disney vacation account, free dining, etc. I've never stayed in a villa, except at the much cheaper Hilton Head resort with extended family. And tours? No way! Too much money!

My wife isn't doing any of the planning. I have a husband who also works full time. We have never gone to Atlantis. Greece, or Italy. And we both drive 2008 Honda CRVs (got mine used!)

Please reconsider what it means to be rich and what your assumptions and stereotypes of high earners are. There are plenty of high earners with little wealth and plenty of low earners with lots and lots of wealth. We aim for high earning and lots of wealth.

May I suggest The Millionaire Next Door? Great reading for everyone, regardless of your income level.