As a repeat guest, Disney's going to have to work harder to get me.

Disney's not that interested in repeat guests. They want the once in a lifetime splurge travelers, and the large groups. If you want a real loyalty program, sign up with Starwood Preferred Guest and stay at the Swan/Dolphin.
Well since my family and I are repeat guests everytime we always purchase a good amount of items on WDW property when it comes to clothes, pins, collectors items and etc. So why would they not want us to comeback when we spend all that $ around WDW at their various stores?
 
I had a long conversation with one of my friends about this today.. She has been a loyal WDW enthusiast for YEARS.. Since her son was born 12 years ago she has pretty much gone almost every year, but definitely every other year.. NOT ONCE has she ever received a pin.. No free dining.. NOTHING.. Then comes me.. Yes, I have loved Disney for almost 40 years and this next time I will have gone 11 times.. But.. Since last oct. I have received every new pin that has come out.. From 40% off of Deluxes to free dining to everything else inbetween.. With a place so technoligically advanced as Disney you would think they would know that my name already has a reservation, so give someone else that has been online looking for pricing the discount..
My friend was sick for a while and one year she required a wheel chair to get around (but she was able to walk, just not all the time) and there was an incident with a bus driver who pretty much told her that she shouldn't be using a wheel chair and made a big stink about it.. It was so bad that my friend wrote a note to Disney.. Now she is thinking there is a black mark next to her name..
 
I agree! They are going to have work for my vacation dollar in the future also. Planning this years trip has been exhausting. They sucked me in two years ago with the buy 4 get 3 offer. We loved the Disney experience so much that I jumped for joy when I got a 40% deluxe pin code the following year. Booked immediately. Had another wonderful trip. Then I spent months watching and waiting for a pin or public offer for this year's trip. I booked a moderate for this year at 25% off. I just didn't have room in the budget for a deluxe without a pin discount. In February I got a pin email to an email account that I hardly ever check. I didn't even know that Disney had that email address. There was only a couple days left on the pin. When I tried to use it, the first few days of my trip were blacked out. Unfortunately, I had already bought my airfare, which was another waiting and watching game in and of itself. It was going to cost too much to change the flights, so I stuck with my original reservation. It is just so much work to try to get the best deal possible. It does sort of take the magic out of it.
 
They lost our family when they changed the FD offer from DDP to QSDP for the values. Before that, we were able to justify 2 rooms at a value (there are 6 of us) plus park tickets because most of our food was basically covered, including our sit-down dinner each night. Taking away the regular DDP FD offer for the values, was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". We're still visiting in August, but we're staying in a 3 bedroom condo at Windsor Hills (for a fraction of the price and 3x the space and amenities) and we're splitting our time between WDW and Universal.
 
They lost our family when they changed the FD offer from DDP to QSDP for the values. Before that, we were able to justify 2 rooms at a value (there are 6 of us) plus park tickets because most of our food was basically covered, including our sit-down dinner each night. Taking away the regular DDP FD offer for the values, was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". We're still visiting in August, but we're staying in a 3 bedroom condo at Windsor Hills (for a fraction of the price and 3x the space and amenities) and we're splitting our time between WDW and Universal.

I wonder how many people were booking a Value resort just to get the dining, and then staying elsewhere. Seems to be a lot of people asking about doing something very similar lately.

I'd also bet Disney was loosing money giving the regular dining away with Value rooms. Especially with character meals being so costly, a family of 4 would come out waaaay ahead booking a Value resort and having free dining.

It was a great deal for us guests, no doubt about it. But if Disney was loosing what was to them an unacceptble amount of money, then I'm not shocked they downgraded Value resort guests to Quick Service Dining.

It will be interesting to see if after a year or so Disney changes their minds and goes back to regular dining at the Value resorts. To see if the people changing their vacation style outweigh those who go for the quick service dining plan.
 
Sure they want the repeaters to come back - but they are not going to do anything heavy to encourage it because it's most likely they'll do it anyway. And if you don't come to WDW, someone else will. No loyalty discounts or points rewards programs, because Disney isn't like Starwood - they don't really have to compete with Hilton and Marriott and Four Seasons on a global scale. So you can't expect free dining all the time for being a good customer. Free dining isn't a reward for loyalty, it's a carrot on a stick to draw in those who were kinda maybe thinking about a Disney vacation. Now they're experimenting with different types of carrots (kids free, targeted PINS instead of general public free dining) to see who they can attract. It may not necessarily be your demographic.

Disney doesn't really care about the small family's annual trip in high summer - they can fill that room in peak period anyway, most likely - or the annual passholder. Not saying they don't want you to come back but they won't bend over backward for you. They'll throw us an event every once in awhile and a few discounts but you can't count on them all the time and you can't count on the same discount every year. They don't need free dining as much to fill rooms and they've found they can cut back on the offer (QS dining free instead of regular dining, more blackout dates, etc) and still draw in those who would not ordinarily have thought about a Disney trip -AND get them to pay rack rate and do everything on Disney property. That's who they want.

Tell them you are planning a wedding, a family reunion, or bringing a large youth group and they will be all over you. These are the people who bring in folks willing to pay rack rate and full price for their tickets, arrange for extras, and buy souvenirs.
 
I am sorry, but I cannot wrap my mind around the idea that Disney doesn't need repeat customers. Rooms sold are rooms sold. And if its only first time, only time guests that are filling them, that will really stink for Disney because I dn't happen to think that their are that many people out there right now willing to fork over thousands for the unknown experience. They may be testing the waters with this idea and if they do, it won't go well. Right now given the cost of a Disney vacation, the repeaters are the ones that are most likely to know and understand that it might very well worth that pricetag, but they have their limits and their cut off on what they will pay. Esp. since they know all about what's out there for some, but not all. People hate it when they think they aren't getting the best deal possible and now that Disney has done this so often, they have let the cat out of the bag and yes, I do absolutely think its making more and more repeat guests decide not to go and I think that will have a larger impact than Disney would like.

There's another whole park that exists in the U.S. for Disney and its called Disneyland. That's their main emphasis in life, the repeat guest. The local guest. They have gone too much that way, the tourist guest isn't treated to the same experience and it has come back to haunt DL big time. They have a park now that is overrun with locals who get dirt cheap AP's, don't spend money on food or souveneirs and the onsite guest perks are laughable. Word is they are learning their lesson the hard way in Anaheim. I gave up going to DL regularly long ago because I felt Disneyland catered too much to day guests and not enough to those of us who fork out airfare, hotels, all our meals and make it a vacation not a "lets get out of the house and head to DL". Its a mess for DL and that is why they are now pouring a billion dollars to make DCA a park worth visiting to draw tourists back. . They are hoping that having cruise ships out of L.A. regularly, new rides and a totally redone park will make it a vacation destination once again. Only appealing to one group didn't do so well for DL in the long run.

A reverse order lesson may be in order for WDW in that if they don't do right by a large chunk of their clientale, it will backfire. It has to be about offering perks that appeal to the widest range of customers as possible.

I do a lot of chit chat at WDW, on the busses, waiting for my table or a ride and its rare I talke to anyone who is a first time visitor anymore.

They may be able to fill those rooms for summer, but so far for my dates in June, they aren't. There's availablity at every resort except CSR for my dates. At least as of yesterday. And if they weren't worried, they wouldn't be releasing pins on March 1'st for dates as quickly as April 23rd. The average first time guest won't suddenly decide to book a last minute trip to WDW, but the repeat guest with an AP and a firsthand knowledge of their product will.

I also just think that the logic that once held of "I love it, I'll come back no matter what the price" is flawed. For one thing, this economy is not something most of us have seen in our adult lifetime. If I had the money and ease to book full price yeah I would. I don't right now. I am not alone. Of my friends who have been repeat guests, one just cancelled a trip, one downgraded and cut her stay short and one is seriously peeved she hasn't gotten a pin for her trip. Also, every firs time Disney visitor evolves into one of two things: A repeat guest or a "been there, done that, not doing it again". Either one of those would be someone Disney would want to reach out to.
 
Disneyland is very different from WDW. Most guests don't get on a plane and fly out to spend a week in Disneyland. Their guests are locals and they need the locals. There is a whole city within walking distance of Disneyland, cheap hotels, cheap restaurants and all.

WDW's main demographic guests are non-locals usually staying a week or more and doing, at the most frequent, annual or trips or trips every couple of years. WDW is huge and isolated and Disney can trap them on their property by offering free transportation and "free" dining IF you eat at their restaurants, but they have to do that to try to keep them from renting cars and trying Sea World or Universal. It's been really effective. The parks are busier, even in the formerly "slow" times. They don't have to try that hard with the Florida locals or the frequent travelers who are just looking for a room and not a big package with tickets and all the trimmings. Sorry, but Disney World doesn't really need us badly enough to offer us stellar deals or loyalty points or the ability to make restaurant reservations at the last minute. They don't need us badly enough right now to have to work to get us.

If enough guests tell Disney "Not coming back because the perks aren't as good" then they might have to do something. But right now they're doing fine and don't need the extras for us. Wait a bit and see how gas prices affects attendance at WDW, because the majority of its guests depend on planes and cars traveling long distances to get there. Have seen more people on the DIS (which is just a microcosm of Disney travelers) saying they are cancelling for this reason than that they are cancelling because they haven't been offered free dining yet. WDW may HAVE to offer deep discounts because of that, but they won't do it just because they like us.

It'll turn around when they need to offer deep general public discounts again, like after 9/11 when people were afraid to fly, or after 2004/2005 which had such devastating hurricane seasons that potential Disney guests were afraid to travel to Florida.
 
I am booked for May. We will be staying for eight nights, deluxe. That being said, it will likely be our last visit for a long while.
I have visited 20+ times and been an AP holder in the past few years.
I never get a pin. The various family and friends that I con into going get them, in MY email. It's very frustrating.
I have booked general public codes the last few times so have not had to pay full rack rate, but a lot of it is feeling like a valued customer, and I don't.
Geez. Even the Holiday Inn makes me feel special for staying there from time to time. But let me spend 6k for a week at WDW and they don't bat an eye.
There's a lot more of the world to see; I got way-laid at WDW because it's so much fun, but this last round of pins (which I didn't get) kind of did me in.
 
I find it very interesting reading everyones take on Disney discounts...pro and con.

I think they are pulling back on Free Dining due to their restaurants beings so full that people who paid for the dining plan or locals that want to just come spur-of-the-moment were unable to get any reservations....and I have been reading for years that they were going to cut down on the discounts.

I think they charge way too much for their resorts.....I also think that there are plenty of people out there that will pay whatever it costs.

We purchased DVC less than 2 years ago so I have not been on the resorts board for awhile. I came because I am short of points and want a discount on a moderate for a "girlfriends" short trip. I am shocked that each night can (and 3 out of 4 are) different prices as the last time I checked you were charged for your whole trip for whatever the first nights stay cost. I am also surprised (today) to see that the Free Dining has gone to QS meals at the moderates.

(Waiting for a PIN myself)
 
Sure they want the repeaters to come back - but they are not going to do anything heavy to encourage it because it's most likely they'll do it anyway. And if you don't come to WDW, someone else will. No loyalty discounts or points rewards programs, because Disney isn't like Starwood - they don't really have to compete with Hilton and Marriott and Four Seasons on a global scale. So you can't expect free dining all the time for being a good customer. Free dining isn't a reward for loyalty, it's a carrot on a stick to draw in those who were kinda maybe thinking about a Disney vacation. Now they're experimenting with different types of carrots (kids free, targeted PINS instead of general public free dining) to see who they can attract. It may not necessarily be your demographic.

Disney doesn't really care about the small family's annual trip in high summer - they can fill that room in peak period anyway, most likely - or the annual passholder. Not saying they don't want you to come back but they won't bend over backward for you. They'll throw us an event every once in awhile and a few discounts but you can't count on them all the time and you can't count on the same discount every year. They don't need free dining as much to fill rooms and they've found they can cut back on the offer (QS dining free instead of regular dining, more blackout dates, etc) and still draw in those who would not ordinarily have thought about a Disney trip -AND get them to pay rack rate and do everything on Disney property. That's who they want.

Tell them you are planning a wedding, a family reunion, or bringing a large youth group and they will be all over you. These are the people who bring in folks willing to pay rack rate and full price for their tickets, arrange for extras, and buy souvenirs.

I see your point, but it seems a lot of frequent visitors do get pins. Unfortunately some do not. I get pins for disneyland all the time. I have never been to disneyland without a pin or a general public discount. I won't go to wdw without a discount. I'm not a resort snob, but I want to be on the monorail or within walking distance. Maybe disneyland is different because their are so many non-disney owned hotels within walking distance they have to do more to get guests. I still don't think there are to many people willing to pay rack rate. Yesterday I was pricing out different resorts on the web site. Every deluxe resort was still available with the gp discount and its only 2months out. If you want to make a very spontaneous last minute trip maybe you will end up paying rack rate. That being said I agree with everyone their resort prices are riducluous. I know quite a few upper class people who would never throw down 500 a night for a standard room. A suite with a view maybe, but a standard room. NO way.
 
I'm a DVC member and an annual passholder and visit a lot. I get PINs in the email with my mother's name on them, which I can't use because they're in her name. Not that I want to use them because I don't want free dining. But I think it's significant that HER name is on them. She is the one who doesn't go there much and I am there often. They are targeting the less frequent visitors, not the more frequent ones. It just so happens that she travels with me but doesn't live with me, so I couldn't use the PIN in her name if I wanted to.

Right now there are general public discounts and annual passholder discounts besides the PINs. Nobody booking for those dates now should have to pay rack rate unless they are picking a resort where all the discounts for which they are eligible are sold out and everyone here knows you have to jump on those if you want someplace popular on popular dates. Are people just annoyed that the GP discounts aren't out for their dates yet and upset that they didn't get a PIN so they can nail down that discount ASAP?
 
I'm not annoyed that we didn't receive the fd pin. Since we're staying deluxe we much prefer the room discounts. I accepted a long time ago that the pins are random.

What seems more pronounced with this most recent pin offering is how unfairly they're being handled by the CM. There is NO reason one should have to call more than once to find out if a discount exists. I'm happy for everyone who persevered and got what they wanted but that system shades into dishonesty on the part of Disney. And if it's the complexity of the system that's the culprit then the CMs need to be trained on how to search for pins and better assist guests - without the attitude that their customers are bothering them.
 
I am sorry, but I cannot wrap my mind around the idea that Disney doesn't need repeat customers. Rooms sold are rooms sold. And if its only first time, only time guests that are filling them, that will really stink for Disney because I dn't happen to think that their are that many people out there right now willing to fork over thousands for the unknown experience. They may be testing the waters with this idea and if they do, it won't go well. Right now given the cost of a Disney vacation, the repeaters are the ones that are most likely to know and understand that it might very well worth that pricetag, but they have their limits and their cut off on what they will pay. Esp. since they know all about what's out there for some, but not all. People hate it when they think they aren't getting the best deal possible and now that Disney has done this so often, they have let the cat out of the bag and yes, I do absolutely think its making more and more repeat guests decide not to go and I think that will have a larger impact than Disney would like.

I agree 100%. My brother, SIL and niece were looking into a trip to WDW but when they priced out their options, decided to take a cruise instead. Their reasoning: they've cruised before and know they'll have a great time. They're never been to WDW together (brother went 1x many years ago) and don't want to "risk" the same $$ they would spend on a cruise in case they don't like it.

IMO Disney needs to cater to those of us who've already drunk the "kool-aid" and are hooked on WDW.
 
What gets me is how much Disney has gone up over the years. We started going in early '06 and have been 5 times since. The first three times we stayed in Mods with the dining plan every time. We usually stay for the same amount of time so I know about how much it is each time. Those first three times ranged from about $2100-$2300 because of the different seasons. Now that same stay is in the $2600-$2800 range. The last two times we went we stayed in Value with the QSDP and it has cost about what the first three stays in Mod. with the DDP cost. I almost booked for last weekend at the end of last year and would have been around $1700 for a value with the free QSDP. I was a day late booking and missed out on it, and instead my family went on a cruise. The four day cruise cost just over $1000. If you add in the drive to and from for Disney with gas prices where they are now, it is way out of line now. We love Disney and compare all of our vacations to our times at Disney, but it will require a big discount for us to go back anytime soon.
 
I have really enjoyed this discussion and many good points have been made. I am a frequent visitor to WDW and an AP holder. I have grown increasingly annoyed with Disney's treatment of frequent guests. It seems that they do not really care if we return or not. I have NEVER received a PIN and do not expect one anymore. What I do expect is for AP rates to be released before the GP rates. If there are no AP rates that is fine. For the AP rates to be the last to be released is very frustrating. The whole PIN thing for free dining is puzzling. What can't Disney get this right?? I have grown to hate to call them for anything just because it is a pain in the rear. Disney's customer service is pretty bad at times. I guess the only way to get their attention is to speak with our dollars and walk away from their resorts. Off-site is looking really good right now!!
 
I have really enjoyed this discussion and many good points have been made. I am a frequent visitor to WDW and an AP holder. I have grown increasingly annoyed with Disney's treatment of frequent guests. It seems that they do not really care if we return or not. I have NEVER received a PIN and do not expect one anymore. What I do expect is for AP rates to be released before the GP rates. If there are no AP rates that is fine. For the AP rates to be the last to be released is very frustrating. The whole PIN thing for free dining is puzzling. What can't Disney get this right?? I have grown to hate to call them for anything just because it is a pain in the rear. Disney's customer service is pretty bad at times. I guess the only way to get their attention is to speak with our dollars and walk away from their resorts. Off-site is looking really good right now!!
Even when they release Annual Pass rates it's not for a long period of time like the GP discount rates. For example the newest set of Annual Pass rates goes from 4/25/11-6/2/11 and you need to reserve by June 2, 2011.

Now I was happy for the GP discount they have for this August because we got to take advantage of the 35% room only offer. However as an Annual Pass holder myself it would have also been nice to have the Annual Pass rates out for that time, because at least we could have compared them and see which discount is better for us.

Finally I said this before and I will say it again. Last year when WDW released all those dates for Free Dining in 2010 and for most dates in 2011, it felt like a slap in the face to Annual Pass holders. Plus the fact they replaced the Bounceback offers for those staying onsite with the Free Dining offer. I felt like those staying on a room only reservation should get offered the Bounceback and those staying Free Dining should have been offered the next Free Dining deal.
 
I have the current FD offer, but I want more dates and maybe even multiple kind discount offers. As is, I won't do it.

I'm not an ingrate, but we've been there so much in past years that to repeat another trip, Disney has to give me more choices on time and offers. I'm really looking for Christmas time. I feel the Xmas season has more to offer with all the special events there. I don't tire of going at that time of year. Even Epcot's Flower and Garden Fest is not enough to intice me with the current free offer.

I'm contemplating a Williamsburg vacation instead for June. We can't afford multiple trips; so, Disney better get those later year discount offers out soon if they want our business.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Without a doubt. Just got a pin the other day and had to laugh. At this point my kid will be considered an adult when she turns 10 in May, and to be offered the QSDP for a Mod stay is not at all enticing. I would rather stay off property in MIL timeshare or rent points & a car and eat off property. But I totally get where you're coming from.
 
We are SO feeling the pain right now! If we can't get an AP rate for our June trip, then I won't renew my annual passes. But then we don't know what to do about tickets! We want to come back in November, but without a room discount for June, then the November trip is probably out. Disney will lose a lot of dining, merchandise, golf cart (in November), drinking ;), miniature golf, etc. etc. money from us. I think they get more from us than the family that flies in once, stays at Pop century on the dining plan and buys regular park tickets! We like to venture past the "usual" places, spend actual money on our food, and stay generally longer. Why don't they see that as valuable?

I'm waiting until early April to send a complaint to Disney about it. Just in case AP rates DO come out for June, so I don't look like a goofball!
 

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