A Big part of the Big Problem... Staffing

[tink2424]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too as I'm reading through this thread. The way people talk about Disney employees and minimum wage workers in general is the exact reason why people don't want to work these jobs. People don't want to be berated by entitled guests for their entire 12 hour shift every single day for horrible pay.

My sister used to work at WDW before the pandemic (not the college program but as a full time employee) and she was yelled at by entitled guests all day every day. She loved her coworkers and Disney, but she could not deal with the awful guests, management never backing her up when situations got dicey and she wasn't earning enough to make it worth it. She ended up leaving for a better paying job and moved out of Florida entirely. She still talks to the people that worked at the same attraction and none of them work at Disney anymore. One of them even went to Universal due to better benefits and treatment.

I agree that people shouldn't be berating anyone but I have to say that I feel that Disney has created this problem themselves. They are providing horrible service and have lines coming out the whazoo... That leads to people being very frustrated and unfortunately that leads to people taking it out on cast members (I'm not saying that it is right but that it is understandable). We all know that a Disney vacation is expensive and Disney sells the "magic" of Disney Theme Parks. When guests don't feel that then they are going to be pissed.

Case in point - I went to WDW in early October of 2020 shortly after the re-opening. There were definitely many things still closed but overall it was a nice experience. The main issue I ran into was I was waiting in line for FOP and was actually in the preview room prior to going into the ride when we were all ushered out of the building. As I'm coming out I'm looking for someone to hand me a fastpass since I waited about 45 minutes for the ride. Not one person there to do anything about guest recovery. So I went to the front of the ride to find someone to ask about it and it took about 15 to 20 minutes to actually get a fastpass. I knew they couldn't guarantee that the ride would come back up but I just wanted an assurance that if it did that I wouldn't have to wait forever to ride. In the "old" Disney that wouldn't have been a fight to get. It would have been handed to everyone as they were ushered off the ride.

This is just one part of the reason that Disney guests are so unhappy.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I agree that people shouldn't be berating anyone but I have to say that I feel that Disney has created this problem themselves. They are providing horrible service and have lines coming out the whazoo... That leads to people being very frustrated and unfortunately that leads to people taking it out on cast members (I'm not saying that it is right but that it is understandable). We all know that a Disney vacation is expensive and Disney sells the "magic" of Disney Theme Parks. When guests don't feel that then they are going to be pissed.

Case in point - I went to WDW in early October of 2020 shortly after the re-opening. There were definitely many things still closed but overall it was a nice experience. The main issue I ran into was I was waiting in line for FOP and was actually in the preview room prior to going into the ride when we were all ushered out of the building. As I'm coming out I'm looking for someone to hand me a fastpass since I waited about 45 minutes for the ride. Not one person there to do anything about guest recovery. So I went to the front of the ride to find someone to ask about it and it took about 15 to 20 minutes to actually get a fastpass. I knew they couldn't guarantee that the ride would come back up but I just wanted an assurance that if it did that I wouldn't have to wait forever to ride. In the "old" Disney that wouldn't have been a fight to get. It would have been handed to everyone as they were ushered off the ride.

This is just one part of the reason that Disney guests are so unhappy.

I agree that Disney created the entitlement issue in guests but IMO after some of the stories my sister has told me about her time at Disney, I just end up feeling bad for every Cast Member that has to deal with that. It's why I also don't blame people for leaving and not coming back.

I think the fact that Disney tells Cast Members to give everyone a free Fastpass for any and all issues adds into the entitlement. There were times where a guest was 100% being unreasonable and was completely in the wrong, but my sister's manager would just tell her to give them a Fastpass and that's the end of it. It makes guests feel like they can do whatever they want and still be rewarded for it. In turn, it made my sister and other Cast Members feel powerless in situations like that. I can only assume that it's even worse now since she worked there way before the pandemic.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No, wasn't me. My experience was a bit more than that.

Okay good to know but now I'm confused when you say sores on their arms? like what do you mean?

I think the point became we don't understand why you would judge the appearance of CMs, whilst at the same time saying you didn't have any issues with customer service and in fact spoke highly of some, and call that Disney getting the bottom of the barrel. It's all very not so nice.

I have KP which for anyone that doesn't know it creates bumps on your body, there's no cure but exfoliating and moisturizing can help, for me it's concentrated largely on a portion of my arm just above my elbows (one side is worse than the other) but I can get it elsewhere. Sometimes it goes away by age 30 or so but other times it's lifelong (and given that I'm over 30 not sure it will go away). It's gotten better on my forearms though. It's not contagious nor harmful but it's appearance sorta sucks, especially when it becomes very pronounced (sometimes triggered by winter and sometimes just the sun). It's actually a common skin issue. Does that mean that if you saw me, especially when it is bad, that my appearance would disturb you? Or if I had a piercing (which I don't although I did have my ears pierced when I was very young) I'm somehow less than qualified so much so that I'm at the bottom?

I know largely way too in-depth than what you probably thought but well you said it, we're just reacting to it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As I'm coming out I'm looking for someone to hand me a fastpass since I waited about 45 minutes for the ride. Not one person there to do anything about guest recovery.

I'd argue you shouldn't be given a FP. That was actually the problem from FP+ era which I've mentioned on other threads. When FPs were given out for the slightest problem (and problem was always in the eye of the beholder) it encouraged people to expect it. So much so that for you (and I really don't mean any sort of rudeness at all here) waiting a certain amount of time for a ride that ended up needing to be evacuated meant you should be given a FP for it and automatically. Not to mention things were all SB at that time anyhow (although that's sorta beside the point when discussing guest entitlement). And in a sorta ironic twist (also not meant to be said in a rude way) when you say Disney created the issue themselves with what you've described you both admit that and are actively wanting them to continue to perpetuate the issue having expected the FP to be given to you.

 

[Smugpugmug]

I'd argue you shouldn't be given a FP. That was actually the problem from FP+ era which I've mentioned on other threads. When FPs were given out for the slightest problem (and problem was always in the eye of the beholder) it encouraged people to expect it. So much so that for you (and I really don't mean any sort of rudeness at all here) waiting a certain amount of time for a ride that ended up needing to be evacuated meant you should be given a FP for it and automatically. Not to mention things were all SB at that time anyhow (although that's sorta beside the point when discussing guest entitlement). And in a sorta ironic twist (also not meant to be said in a rude way) when you say Disney created the issue themselves with what you've described you both admit that and are actively wanting them to continue to perpetuate the issue having expected the FP to be given to you.

This was what I was trying to say in my previous response but I didn't say it as concise as you. I was also trying to argue that in a way giving out free FPs made it harder for Cast Members as well.

 

[Leight19]

I’ve had two trips post Covid and both times I’d say I have encountered cast members that went above and beyond to help so most are still great. However, I did have one or two interactions with cast members that would have been considered poor customer service by any definition. I can list the examples to show I think the minimum expectations have been lowered but for antectdotal evidence the recent stories of stings being setup to catch cast members on stealing spree serves better. My personal experience is cast members for most part are still awesome but some are getting hired that would have been screened out
/let go historically.

 

[4Ds4Diz]

Okay good to know but now I'm confused when you say sores on their arms? like what do you mean?

I think the point became we don't understand why you would judge the appearance of CMs, whilst at the same time saying you didn't have any issues with customer service and in fact spoke highly of some, and call that Disney getting the bottom of the barrel. It's all very not so nice.

I have KP which for anyone that doesn't know it creates bumps on your body, there's no cure but exfoliating and moisturizing can help, for me it's concentrated largely on a portion of my arm just above my elbows (one side is worse than the other) but I can get it elsewhere. Sometimes it goes away by age 30 or so but other times it's lifelong (and given that I'm over 30 not sure it will go away). It's gotten better on my forearms though. It's not contagious nor harmful but it's appearance sorta sucks, especially when it becomes very pronounced (sometimes triggered by winter and sometimes just the sun). It's actually a common skin issue. Does that mean that if you saw me, especially when it is bad, that my appearance would disturb you? Or if I had a piercing (which I don't although I did have my ears pierced when I was very young) I'm somehow less than qualified so much so that I'm at the bottom?

I know largely way too in-depth than what you probably thought but well you said it, we're just reacting to it.

Well perhaps interpretation by previous posters was projecting and over the top. Made lots of assumptions that you seemed to have believed. I am not a shallow person who judges people strictly by their looks. The person I referred to had a skin condition that caused scratching and they had lots of scratch marks, scarring and freshly dried bloody scabs on the forearms. That is a health risk to customers. If you don't see that as a concern, I guess that is where we disagree. This person shouldn't be working a job around food. My post that started the negative comments had to do with this concern. Perhaps my comment about talking to a cast member was not worded clearly. This cast member had long hair and a partial beard. That doesn't bother me at all and he wasn't being judged as a person. He was very likeable. Like I stated before, I will ask for him by name next time we want to do this experience. He even stated, having worked there 8 years, that Disney didn't seemed concerned. I was commenting, per my opinion, that Disney lowering the bar on their standards of the past. There again, my opinion.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well perhaps interpretation by previous posters was projecting and over the top. Made lots of assumptions that you seemed to have believed. I am not a shallow person who judges people strictly by their looks. The person I referred to had a skin condition that caused scratching and they had lots of scratch marks, scarring and freshly dried bloody scabs on the forearms. That is a health risk to customers. If you don't see that as a concern, I guess that is where we disagree. This person shouldn't be working a job around food. My post that started the negative comments had to do with this concern. Perhaps my comment about talking to a cast member was not worded clearly. This cast member had long hair and a partial beard. That doesn't bother me at all and he wasn't being judged as a person. He was very likeable. Like I stated before, I will ask for him by name next time we want to do this experience. He even stated, having worked there 8 years, that Disney didn't seemed concerned. I was commenting, per my opinion, that Disney lowering the bar on their standards of the past. There again, my opinion.

If you believe Disney had health code violations, report that, and then say that was your issue.

It's all very much different than saying

Yep and based on some of the employees I saw on my trip in April, they are scraping the bottom of the barrel!

And when someone brought up tattoos, piercing or hair color you responded with

I guess with that thought process they might as well drop the uniforms/costumes.

Bottom of the barrel would not in any way describe the propensity of an individual to commit health code violations..as if only someone so lowly would be a part of that (you might want to check out your area's health code violations swanky places get them too). I feel confident enough in saying it's not about us "not seeing a concern". But it's probably not going to go anywhere on this conversation so agree on agreeing to disagree and move on

 

[ctl]

Staff are hard to come by everywhere just now. I have noticed that the quality of staff interaction at WDW has gone steadily down over the past several years. There are some very nice staff and then again there are those who think they are more important than the guest. If you don't like your job then get a new one. I have some truly horrible people to deal with on a regular basis in my job, but I suck it up and smile and do the best job I can.

I agree that Disney created the entitlement issue in guests but IMO after some of the stories my sister has told me about her time at Disney, I just end up feeling bad for every Cast Member that has to deal with that. It's why I also don't blame people for leaving and not coming back.

I think the fact that Disney tells Cast Members to give everyone a free Fastpass for any and all issues adds into the entitlement. There were times where a guest was 100% being unreasonable and was completely in the wrong, but my sister's manager would just tell her to give them a Fastpass and that's the end of it. It makes guests feel like they can do whatever they want and still be rewarded for it. In turn, it made my sister and other Cast Members feel powerless in situations like that. I can only assume that it's even worse now since she worked there way before

 

[Smugpugmug]

Staff are hard to come by everywhere just now. I have noticed that the quality of staff interaction at WDW has gone steadily down over the past several years. There are some very nice staff and then again there are those who think they are more important than the guest. If you don't like your job then get a new one. I have some truly horrible people to deal with on a regular basis in my job, but I suck it up and smile and do the best job I can.

Well that's exactly what people are doing. They are leaving Disney and getting a new job. Hence why they're having staffing issues right now. For years everyone has been saying "Well if you don't like it, then leave!" and when they do, those same people turn around and wonder why those low paying jobs are understaffed.

I haven't come across any rude CMs on my recent trip but I have noticed college program kids complaining about their job in front of guests. Not saying that's appropriate. Just an observation.

 

[4Ds4Diz]

Tattoos, hair color and piercings don't affect anyone's ability to do their job, be a great, nice or amazing human. What would this person think if they knew, well we liked them cause they were nice so we'll ask for them again but it'd be great if we didn't have to look at them while they did their job.

It's rude, and hopefully that person never finds out.

It's great that Disney is finally letting cast members be themselves while they are working rather than having to cover it up or whatever. Disney is trying to be inclusive for everyone and this is part of it.

Lots of assumptions and projection here. In no way did I stated I didn't want to look at them or that they weren't a great, nice or amazing human. Disney used to have standards their employees had to meet. Now it is completely different. In my opinion there was at least one employee, in past years, they wouldn't have put out front to be the face of the company.That is the simple point I was making. Many businesses still require dress codes. That is not a judgment on the person. Sorry you misunderstood!

 

[afan]

Lots of assumptions and projection here. In no way did I stated I didn't want to look at them or that they weren't a great, nice or amazing human. Disney used to have standards their employees had to meet. Now it is completely different. In my opinion there was at least one employee, in past years, they wouldn't have put out front to be the face of the company.That is the simple point I was making. Many businesses still require dress codes. That is not a judgment on the person. Sorry you misunderstood!

I didn't misunderstand and read your pp response about what it actually was. But even this response doesn't help your case.

It it was really your concern over a potential health code violation than that would have been the focus of your post. Because even here you are bringing up places that still have dress codes.

You may not think you are judging what they look like but your comments aren't reflective of that being the case. Either way, I think it's time for this conversation to end. No one's mind is going to be changed by what either one of us is saying.

 

[tink2424]

I'd argue you shouldn't be given a FP. That was actually the problem from FP+ era which I've mentioned on other threads. When FPs were given out for the slightest problem (and problem was always in the eye of the beholder) it encouraged people to expect it. So much so that for you (and I really don't mean any sort of rudeness at all here) waiting a certain amount of time for a ride that ended up needing to be evacuated meant you should be given a FP for it and automatically. Not to mention things were all SB at that time anyhow (although that's sorta beside the point when discussing guest entitlement). And in a sorta ironic twist (also not meant to be said in a rude way) when you say Disney created the issue themselves with what you've described you both admit that and are actively wanting them to continue to perpetuate the issue having expected the FP to be given to you.

I hear what you are saying but I don't think it is unreasonable for Disney to give a fastpass when a ride breaks down to the people in line, especially those already on the line or just about to go on the ride. I only even expected it because that what how things went in the past.

I do believe that in the past there were times that fastpasses were given out like candy. I'm sure sometimes it was warranted and sometimes it was not. At the end of the day it was Disney that created that expectation in me... I didn't just come up with it on my own.

I used to work at Nordstrom in customer service and I loved working there. And yes, sometimes I got very entitled customers but I usually just tried to help them and most of the time they had very valid reasons for being upset.

I guess my bottom line is that if you are going to create the expecatation that you are the best in customer service then you have to come through with the customer service or your guests are going to be unhappy.

NOTE: I do NOT condone verbally or god-forbid physically abusing any person that works anywhere. 99.9999% of the time they are just following orders and it isn't their fault for what happened. Being firm but polite usually goes a longer way then screaming at someone...

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I hear what you are saying but I don't think it is unreasonable for Disney to give a fastpass when a ride breaks down to the people in line, especially those already on the line or just about to go on the ride. I only even expected it because that what how things went in the past.

I do believe that in the past there were times that fastpasses were given out like candy. I'm sure sometimes it was warranted and sometimes it was not. At the end of the day it was Disney that created that expectation in me... I didn't just come up with it on my own.

I used to work at Nordstrom in customer service and I loved working there. And yes, sometimes I got very entitled customers but I usually just tried to help them and most of the time they had very valid reasons for being upset.

I guess my bottom line is that if you are going to create the expecatation that you are the best in customer service then you have to come through with the customer service or your guests are going to be unhappy.

NOTE: I do NOT condone verbally or god-forbid physically abusing any person that works anywhere. 99.9999% of the time they are just following orders and it isn't their fault for what happened. Being firm but polite usually goes a longer way then screaming at someone...

That's still the same thing we're talking about. You believe you should be given a pass through the line because something that is normal (but quite sucks regardless) occurred at a theme park, rides break down, features don't work on a ride, it happens, Disney wholeheartedly fed this mentality, so guests expected. I'm not blaming you the guest but pointing out the irony of equating not being given a FP, especially automatic and looking around for someone to give you one, to a customer service issue.

 

[bsmcneil]

I'm gen x.

When I finished up university in the 90s, both inflation and rates were much higher. And I didn't have a smart phone. There were far fewer subscription based services, so there are a lot of opportunities to find places to cut today. The market dropping now feels more like the early 2000s than 2008.

We'll all adapt and figure this out. Employees definitely need to get paid more.

According to actual data, no they weren't.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm gen x.

When I finished up university in the 90s, both inflation and rates were much higher. And I didn't have a smart phone. There were far fewer subscription based services, so there are a lot of opportunities to find places to cut today. The market dropping now feels more like the early 2000s than 2008.

We'll all adapt and figure this out. Employees definitely need to get paid more.

Lots of people don't keep lots of subscription services. I'm not even sure what that's about. My kids are 29, 27 and 21. I think one of them pays for Spotify. And that's it.

 

[bsmcneil]

They are providing horrible service

I'm curious - what's the "horrible service" they're providing? To me, horrible service is a far cry from not ideal service which is not the same as good but not previously "Magical" service and I'm be surprised if Disney Parks were providing actually "horrible" service.

 

[tink2424]

I'm curious - what's the "horrible service" they're providing? To me, horrible service is a far cry from not ideal service which is not the same as good but not previously "Magical" service and I'm be surprised if Disney Parks were providing actually "horrible" service.

The horrible service is the app not working the way it is supposed to, lack of staff at the parks is leading to large lines (I know staffing is an issue a lot of places but Disney could definitely limit the amount of people at each park to make for a better park experience), not investing in the parks before COVID to ensure there was sufficient capacity for the amount of guests they get... There are many things that Disney is guilty of providing "horrible service." The Disney I went to in the 80s is very much gone...

 

[starlite_]

The horrible service is the app not working the way it is supposed to, lack of staff at the parks is leading to large lines (I know staffing is an issue a lot of places but Disney could definitely limit the amount of people at each park to make for a better park experience), not investing in the parks before COVID to ensure there was sufficient capacity for the amount of guests they get... There are many things that Disney is guilty of providing "horrible service." The Disney I went to in the 80s is very much gone...

Well yeah, it's been 40 years

 

[bsmcneil]

The horrible service is the app not working the way it is supposed to, lack of staff at the parks is leading to large lines (I know staffing is an issue a lot of places but Disney could definitely limit the amount of people at each park to make for a better park experience), not investing in the parks before COVID to ensure there was sufficient capacity for the amount of guests they get... There are many things that Disney is guilty of providing "horrible service." The Disney I went to in the 80s is very much gone...

Yeah - I mean, the app was frustrating for me. I had problems. My experience of it wasn't "horrible". Nor were the lines, staffing, etc - but I guess it's all relative. I feel like "horrible service" is where the staff mock you or ignore you or press their thumb into your food when bringing it out, etc - not being at 90/80/75/60%.