.

[Tonyz]

One thing I will comment on with regards to the actual conversation about the flag. I don't care at all about if the flag is in the American Adventure. I agree, it is a part of history and should be considered so. Yup. Everyone was absolutely right about that.

...but it was always a symbol of racism. It was the flag that was flown by the people who wanted to keep other human beings as slaves, who saw those humans as objects. This is not something new. And racism is a part of this country's history (and present, sadly) and should not be forgotten. So I have no problem or concern with it being in that attraction.

But the flag was not co-opted by racists. The Nazi symbol started as a Tibetan peace sign. The confederate flag did not start as something pure and innocent. It stood for slavery from its conception.

 

[Ray Piechocki]

Hello Everyone,
This is my first post and I wish it was not so controversial because for the most part you are all very informative and entertaining.

The United State of America fought a very deadly war so that flag would no longer fly from sea to shining sea. So many people died to make it so. With this said I felt very
uncomfortable watching this episode because of my disdain for that flag and all it represents. Enough said about that.

One thing I would like to add is that we took Pete's advice and hopped on the plane to Disneyland (I have not been there since 1975) and had one of the best experiences in
my life. I would not have taken this trip if it was not for the excellent Disneyland episodes in late May.

 

[tjevans]

This is even despite his admitting to police in 2005 that he purchased Quaaludes with the intent of drugging women and having sex with them. As a result, a serial rapist of over 40 years continues to walk the streets. I find this deplorable and a further insult to victims everywhere.

The admission was in a deposition in a civil lawsuit, not to the police. Still an admission under oath, and given the same weight as if given in a trial, though.

 

[kbelle8995]

JL was controlling the conversation and she did step in when she felt it was enough and moved on to the next topic. No matter what show is happening and who is the host, the person at the main chair is always controlling it. You're allowed to have the opinion that it went on too long and was repetitive, but Pete trusts JL to host when he's away and she did her job and did it well.

Here, Here. I think JL did just fine with some controversal news. The Confederate flag is a touchy topic and I think the group dealt with it in a sensitive way and also the Bill Cosby news.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I thought it was a good show and nice to see these types of topics covered as well

I think it comes down to the fact that Walt Disney World is a vacation destination that wants to elicit positive feelings for its guests to promote their enjoyment (and promote them to come back and spend more money). Seeing Cosby's bust displayed like that (hopefully) do not promote positive feelings for guests at this time and I think it makes total sense to remove it. This doesn't mean he (or his show) are removed from the Television Hall of Fame or anything.

As for the flag, while I do appreciate there is an "edutainment" aspect to EPCOT it still isn't a museum and, again, if people were getting negative thoughts from it I am ok with taking it down. It isn't like that display was to show every single official flag the full United States has ever had representing the entire country and now there is a gap in that, it was just a representative of some of the historical flags that have been involved in the countries history. I would have been ok if this one stayed though as it isn't as in your face, but also don't have a huge deal with it coming down - and if Disney got explicit complaints I probably would have done the same thing if in their place.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

JL was controlling the conversation and she did step in when she felt it was enough and moved on to the next topic. No matter what show is happening and who is the host, the person at the main chair is always controlling it. You're allowed to have the opinion that it went on too long and was repetitive, but Pete trusts JL to host when he's away and she did her job and did it well.

I think she (and the whole group) did a very good job - I appreciate that she let the conversation go for a bit. Would have been easy to just cut it off and move on without letting differing opinions be heard but was a better episode, I feel, for allowing the conversation to flow a bit.

 

[RIDizney]

The confederate flag did not start as something pure and innocent. It stood for slavery from its conception.

Very Well said !!!!

There was talk of the "confederate" flag's use today of being one of showing southern state unity...which is a very not wholly true. The civil war was essentially one of ideals... While state's rights were a big part of it slavery played the largest part. The war was between an Industrial part of the country (North) against an Agrarian part of the country (South). Financially, Socially, and Politically the south relied on the institution of slavery to preserve their way of life. So the confederate flag always was a symbol of people promoting slavery. To use the confederate flag today, in any context except historically, is offensive. The fact that government buildings still hang it and people display that flag today means they never have gotten over that chapter in history and wish to propagate those ideals forward.

 

[Hunterr]

Yeah I don't want to knock JL, but she even mentioned in the beginning how nervous she was hosting a show with controversial topics. Pete's just a little more seasoned and experienced and (IMO) would have handled it a tad better. That's all I meant by it.

The rest of the show was fine. I think JL is a great host (hostess?).

Well, Pete wasn't here this week, so if you had to deal with a few extra minutes about a current event related to the parks, big whoop.
Pete probably would have went on a long rant and we wouldn't have gotten all these other voices in there.
I hope he does a rant about these things when he comes back, but it was nice to have something a little different.

Also, the dis totally needs a POC on the panel.

 

[Tom P.]

JL was controlling the conversation and she did step in when she felt it was enough and moved on to the next topic. No matter what show is happening and who is the host, the person at the main chair is always controlling it. You're allowed to have the opinion that it went on too long and was repetitive, but Pete trusts JL to host when he's away and she did her job and did it well.

FWIW, I would like to say that I thought it was a wonderful show. I actually liked the fact that the conversation went a little longer than just a quick 30 second soundbite, and I enjoyed hearing the perspectives of pretty much everyone in the group. I also liked the fact that not everyone was in lockstep agreement on everything, and that you all got the opportunity to state your points of view. I also like it when we get to hear the team talk from time to time about things that are beyond the "normal" Disney topics too.

I would like to hear the opinion of others on the team -- such as Pete, John, and Kevin -- about these issues when they return to the show. But that's not because I think they would have a "better" discussion than you and the team did yesterday, just that I like hearing their opinions as well.

 

[Tonyz]

Also, the dis totally needs a POC on the panel.

No they don't. Adding a black person just for diversity is so unbelievably patronizing.

 

[JimmyV]

A few thoughts....

The controversy about flag removals that we have all been following in the news relates exclusively to the removal from public, state-run grounds. State houses. Governor's mansions. City Halls. Stuff like that. Free speech in America guarantees that private citizens and private corporations retain the right to publicly display controversial or even inflammatory symbols if done in the proper time, place and manner. No act of government can prevent a private citizen from flying a Confederate flag. What has to happen to change such behavior is the wrath of public opinion. If a store owner flies the flag, s/he risks going out of business if people boycott the business. And if the business is headed down the drain, perhaps the owner will have second thoughts about flying the flag. All that said, Disney is a private corporation and can decide to do whatever it wants. If it believes that retaining the flag would offend people, or draw undue attention to itself, or even harm attendance figures, then it takes the flag down. Had it believed that the American pavilion is a "museum" and that the flag would have been appropriate in that context, I would not have faulted them. Nor do I fault them for making the decision to remove the flag. The flag is still present in the pavilion in the American Adventure show. And it appears in context.

To the people who say that the flag is a symbol of Southern Pride....get over yourselves. As pointed out above, the flag was first flown over the SC Statehouse in the early 60's. Where was the "southern pride" before that? What events in our nation's history were transpiring in the early 60's that perhaps made SC legislators decide that the Confederate flag needed to be dusted off and flown over public grounds? Hmmmm. I wonder....
If the folks in the South want to fly a flag of pride, then invent a new one. Put the Smoky Mountains in the background. Maybe a Georgia Peach in the foreground. Maybe add in a palmetto tree. Whatever. But don't try to convince us that the flag carried into battle by people who marched on our nation's capital, took arms up against the United States Army, tried to burn down the Capitol and actively tried to capture and kill the President of the United States is your "flag of pride". If a group of 1,000 people marched down Pennsylvania Avenue this afternoon and fired on the Capitol, or tried to murder the President, and they were captured, tried and convicted, do you think that any state house would fly their battle flag if they asked for that to happen as their dying wish just before being executed?

On Bill Cosby...innocent until proven guilty is only a standard in criminal law. It is the basis of proof that keeps people out of jail. It has never been and never should be the basis for people forming their opinion on whether someone should be lauded or honored. He admitted in his own words that he acquired sedatives specifically to use to get women to have sex with him. Nothing more needs to be known before the public forms its opinion of him.

 

[Princess Jes]

Just wanted to chime in quickly (haven't read the whole thread yet) that, I think JL and the team did a great job in the way they handled the topics.
I thought Julie, being from the south, might have gone off a bit but she was very controlled and respectful, so kudos to her for that.
Also, I LOVE pete's rants, but do you honestly think that if pete was there that the conversation would have been any shorter?
It may have been more one sided (less actual discussion) but I think there would have been at least 1, if not 2 Pete rants in there, and they can go longer than what that conversation went for.
I'd have loved to hear Peres views on those topics, but I'm glad I got to hear a good amount of everyone's opinions on them in his absence.

 

[marinejjh]

Cosby, whatever happened until innecient until proven guilty. Like Pete Rose betting on baseball, didn't have anything to do with his record.

 

[Tonyz]

Cosby, whatever happened until innecient until proven guilty. Like Pete Rose betting on baseball, didn't have anything to do with his record.

Well, Pete Rose bet some money on baseball... while Bill Cosby raped a few dozen women.

 

[marinejjh]

Well, Pete Rose bet some money on baseball... while Bill Cosby raped a few dozen women.

He hasn't been proven guilty, that is what is wrong with people in society today. All we do is follow the main stream media. Why did these women wait 20 + years to bring it up.

 

[Tonyz]

Well, they just released the documents that have him basically admitting it.

 

[MikeTaylor]

Some of the most horrible people create the most beautiful things.

 

[CampbellzSoup]

Some of the most horrible people create the most beautiful things.

Deep....deep

 

[*NikkiBell*]

Cosby, whatever happened until innecient until proven guilty. Like Pete Rose betting on baseball, didn't have anything to do with his record.

Because of the statue of limitations, he will never sit in a courtroom so there is no merit to innocent until proven guilty.

In the court of public opinion, there is genuine proof. He admitted it in 2005. What more proof does one need?

 

[Andrea1973]

JeniLynn hosting: I think she held her ground, carried on and brought the group back on point a couple times! She, in my opinion, did EXACTLY what Pete would have done. With the exception that Pete would have made a more forceful personal opinionated statement, but that is how he rolls.

Bill Cosby: I honestly had no idea that bust of him was even there. Now, because that is a symbol specifically designed for Bill the person/the actor so yes I agree that it should be removed. His acts were specific and full of intent, very cut and dry in his actions.

The Confederate Flag: was a symbol of the confederate states that wanted to be separate from other stars due to different ideals. NOW, there was and is still to this day people that have altered the core value behind the flags original meaning, and have chosen to use the flag to represent their altered idea of what the flag represents (hate and racisim). It is this altered idea that people want to get rid of, but you can NOT remove ideas from individual people. So how do you remove a symbol that stand for two separate ideals. On one hand you have the belief in family and the love of the land (example the Dukes of Hazzard) and then the racist hate filled people like the young man that killed those people. I think that the flag should not be removed, because the original meaning of the flag was not intended to represent hate as it is being portrayed today.

Comparision: I feel the difference between the use and removal of these two symbols is this. The Cosby bust was to represent the actor, his life and achievements. That bust represents all the victims he himself victimized. The Confederate flag at its core, was good and related to family value and a type of honor that people have when it comes to their flag. It also stood for the lives of all the soldiers that at their cores wanted to stand up for their beliefs and family. Just like soldiers of today, the soldiers of 150 years ago fought along side friends and family to keep their fundamental way of life AND was not individually raping and drugging unsuspecting women.

With that said I feel, the Cosby Show, should not be removed from TV, because the television show and its Characters Cliff Huxtable, wife, kids and neighbors represent GOOD family values, situations, humor and GOOD practical problem solving. Similar to the Dukes of Hazzard. Bo, Luke, Daisy, Uncle Jesse, Cooter even the good Sheriff Rosco and Boss Hogg and all the other lovable Characters also are all based on family values, love, mistakes and problem solving. Why take shows that show good family values off the air when our youth are constantly bombarded with despicable low life role models like Miley Cyrus, Kanye West, and egg throwing, peeing in mop bucket antics of Justin Beiber.

Neither the Cosby show or Dukes represent hate, bigotry, racism, rape, lewd indecent immoral acts, so what is the REAL meaning behind taking good things off the air?