Anyone else dislike how Disney glorifies "Pirates"?

[jrabbit]

One of the best comments I read about "the gay character" in Beauty and the Beast is paraphrased below ...

Queen sends Huntsman out to Kill Young Girl and bring her heart back to the queen
... and people were ok with it

Step mom abuses stepdaughter ...
... and people were ok with it

People lock up baby's mom ... "baby" drinks something strong, and has bizarre nightmare
... and people were ok with it

Baby's mom is killed
... and people were ok with it

Woman hunts puppies for their furs
... and people were ok with it

Teenager sells her voice to a witch (but there is no such thing as a witch .. or magic...)
... and people were ok with it

Beast imprisons young lady, and the town bully wants to take her as his property
... and people were ok with it

Judge sings a song about how the Gypsy Girl makes him all hot and horny, and will kill her if she does not agree to marry him
... and people were ok with it

Military wants to kill a female ... after she saves their behinds, only because she's a girl
... and people were ok with it

European's wanting to eradicate the "red man" because they are hiding the "European's gold"
... and people were ok with it

Glorify the Pirates: pillaging and raping and destroying ("we pillage, plunder rifle and loot" ... "Kidnap and Ravage and don't give a hoot" ...
... and people were ok with it

and the list goes on and on. And you can use any adjective in place of "people"

 

[mevelandry]

It would have never crossed my mind to make that comparison. I love the pirate myth. It bothers me more the way Disney is shoving Star Wars down our throats right now LOL

Talking about myths... Although it was based on a fiction, I never got over how Disney "ruined" The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by making it a "pretty" story.

 

[mevelandry]

You mean, Disney's glorification of a fascist dictatorship?

Ok, now I need to watch Star Wars. I did not know it was THAT deep.

 

[wilkeliza]

Talking about myths... Although it was based on a fiction, I never got over how Disney "ruined" The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by making it a "pretty" story.

Oh you should listen to the musical. Nothing pretty about that version. Sad that they decided not to bring it to Broadway.

 

[mevelandry]

Oh you should listen to the musical. Nothing pretty about that version. Sad that they decided not to bring it to Broadway.

The french musical? I've seen it.

 

[JW9DVC]

Face it folks, pirates were the 17th Century equivalent of terrorists. Stealing, killing, raping, etc. It wasn't all Errol Flynn and "Captain Blood."
.
Anyone see the movie "Captain Phillips"? Somalian pirates were a big problem from approx. 2005~2010 until organized Navies brought out the big guns. Yes, they killed innocent crews on both commercial and pleasure craft.

Maybe they were colorful and followed a "code," but I am pretty sure ISIS terrorists do as well.

Not Jack Sparrows code. Referring to Disney Pirates similar to ISIS, really? That's like saying all people with guns are terrorists to.

Time to rethink your theory.

JW

 

[darnheather]

OP due to your real life experiences I recommend you stay in your cabin and get room service on pirate night. Or maybe seek psychological counseling. Myths and fairy tales are as old as human speech and language. Your conflation of those things to real life events in your history is not necessarily healthy.

To others: discussion of the difference between real life pirates of the 1700's and 2000's is great when your child is ready to hear those things. On the other hand make believe is a wonderful world that children should be allowed to play in as long as possible.

 

[Uncranky Donald]

It's all semantics, we can call them conquistadors or explorers but they were all pirates who took the Americas to become the land that we all are living on as we type from our computers. Oh no, history is filled with imperfect horrible events and those events get told by way of valuable stories for our children to learn from...ahhhhh!!!! Sometimes the mystique and adventure can be used as a creative tool to ease those lessons and stories to light before the real world hits their precious unadulterated minds. No one's perfect and I can not think of ONE fable, nursery rhyme, Disney story or ride etc. that DOESN'T have a messed up historical reference, moral issue that someone would find offensive or in bad taste because they are all based on life.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Ok, now I need to watch Star Wars. I did not know it was THAT deep.

It's pretty thick in Episode 7. There's definitely some borrowing from Triumph of the Will for the one scene of the First Order rally.

 

[JW9DVC]

Yep, I'm with you. One of my daughters actually said, But pirates don't exist anymore, right? So I did give her a brief and age-appropriate overview that, Yes, unfortunately, they do exist, but not like you're thinking and it's not likely we'd ever run into any.

Pirates do exist in the open seas.

 

[wilkeliza]

The french musical? I've seen it.

The Disney one. There are 2 version a German version and the US version. I've only seen the US version live but the German one goes even darker then the US one did.

 

[lorenni]

If you want to peel back the true historical layers like that, you can also focus on how our founding fathers in the Hall of Presidents were also slave owners. You can talk about the gross and insulting caricatures of Africans in Jungle Cruise. You can talk about about how the U.S. railroads and mining companies employed slave labor and indentured servitude. You can talk about how aspects of settling the Wild West involved the killing and dislocation of Native American people. You can talk about how real princesses were sold off like chattel or traded for the sake of their dowry or to strengthen family land holdings. You can talk about how circuses have traditionally abused and mistreated animals such as elephants. You can talk about how turn-of-the-century Main Street USA probably engaged in segregationist policies where African Americans wouldn't be served at the Main Street Bakery and couldn't use the bathrooms that white people used outside City Hall.

I'm not saying you don't have a good point, but, I mean, we can go on and on until we get to a place where 75% of MK should be torn down due to negative parts of its' attractions' actual history.

I clicked the "like" button but really this post deserves a bit more. I think we actually *should* have these conversations with our kids at some point, and I applaud the thoughtfulness of the examples you so accurately point out.

In the meantime, and while DS is little, we'll enjoy the stylized/sanitized/disneyfied versions presented in fun. And provide those thoughtful comments as they come and as he can process them.

 

[mevelandry]

It's pretty thick in Episode 7. There's definitely some borrowing from Triumph of the Will for the one scene of the First Order rally.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

JJ Abrams has said the First Order in Ep VII was inspired by the theory of SS Officers fleeing to Argentina after the war. References embedded at Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Order_(Star_Wars)#Comparisons_to_Nazi_Germany_and_ODESSA

 

[lorenni]

How are Knights in this list? There were basically the military of the day. Unless you think all armies are bad.

I believe the context here is the crusades, during which a whole lot of white men (aka knights) savaged much of the world in order to bring Christianity to all.

 

[Taylor F.]

I love Disney too much to be all "HISTORY!".... I'm going to jump back in my Disney bubble where Mickey doesn't rape my wallet and cinnamon rolls don't have calories.

 

[Cackyschmackers]

Pirates do exist in the open seas.

Yes, I'm very aware. Thus my telling my kids they do still exist but in our Caribbean travels we are not likely to run into them.

 

[chartle]

I believe the context here is the crusades, during which a whole lot of white men (aka knights) savaged much of the world in order to bring Christianity to all.

Yea but you have good knights and bad knights but not sure there were good pirates.

 

[Stephaneezer]

Privateers were good for the government that set them up. They didn't become pirates (and outlaws) until the government decided to do away with the positions. Sweep the dust under the rug, so to speak. You can't push someone without getting pushed back every now and then.

We all have played cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers, super heros and super villians. It is important to get the full story.

 

[AquaDame]

Yea but you have good knights and bad knights but not sure there were good pirates.

"good" and "bad" depend on which side you are on.... I am not sure I believe in "good" knights. "Good" pirates may have been called privateers but to the other side they're still pirates.