Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[Madonna3]

It's exactly like that...which is why the system works if it's attached to deluxes alone...if it ain't broke. Realizing that okw and Saratoga are already the "moderates" in the system.

This. I feel booking SSR and OKW is a poor value for MY points while an excellent value for THEIRS.

 

[jade1]

Do they get it now? Doesn't seem like it...

Nope, but they have a chance. Will see.

 

[Golfjbc89]

So what options do we see?

A moderate level DVC
A moderate suite DVC property
A moderate suite property
A deluxe DVC, with direct park access
A deluxe DVC, with no direct park access

I can see them doing a moderate level DVC. you either wont be allowed to book the deluxe resorts (basically everything except OKW or SSR) with plans to add moderate DVC to all moderates. if they think this will make money they will do it. im sure they have smarter people than me running these numbers. also they can sell this with sales people saying they'll build at POR, etc.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Nope, but they have a chance. Will see.

The reality is you are pouring your money into one big pot. It doesn't matter where you stay...it's just shellgame economics...

Now if they screw with dvc and it affects what "nice places" you can stay...you'll care.

 

[jade1]

The reality is you are pouring your money into one big pot. It doesn't matter where you stay...it's just shellgame economics...

Now if they screw with dvc and it affects what "nice places" you can stay...you'll care.

Eh, not worried-bought where we want to stay.

My kids are now interested in buying that they are older and love EPCOT and S wars-so they might be in the mix to.

 

[Madonna3]

I can see them doing a moderate level DVC. you either wont be allowed to book the deluxe resorts (basically everything except OKW or SSR) with plans to add moderate DVC to all moderates. if they think this will make money they will do it. im sure they have smarter people than me running these numbers. also they can sell this with sales people saying they'll build at POR, etc.

personally, I'd be ok with letting them book OKW and SSR as a sales pitch. The current DVC owners aren't booking those resorts. Hell, I pay cash to stay somewhere instead of using my points to book there. I paid cash to stay at Yacht Club last time for $260

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I can see them doing a moderate level DVC. you either wont be allowed to book the deluxe resorts (basically everything except OKW or SSR) with plans to add moderate DVC to all moderates. if they think this will make money they will do it. im sure they have smarter people than me running these numbers. also they can sell this with sales people saying they'll build at POR, etc.

That's tiering and i think that makes More sense.

But the inclusion of Saratoga and old key west put them in a pool with the largest two blocks of members.

That could be "problematic" as well. I have no desire to go to Caribbean...ever....over old key west or Saratoga. Lock me out of those and I have "issues".

I bought Saratoga because it was the only one for sale at the time. Ak and contemporary went on sale for the same price within 3 months.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

personally, I'd be ok with letting them book OKW and SSR as a sales pitch. The current DVC owners aren't booking those resorts. Hell, I pay cash to stay somewhere instead of using my points to book there. I paid cash to stay at Yacht Club last time for $260

I think you are incorrect...OKW has a loyal following.

But I saw you say "I bought gf and poly"

Nope...you bought points tied to there. It doesn't guarantee you access to it. It's all the same...you paid double what I did and I paid double what my inlaws did.

It's not a timeshare...its "vacation ownership"...as they used to say in the pitch.

I rag on Saratoga all the tine...rightfully so...but a lot of longstanding use it heavily. They are likely not too eager to go to Caribbean...

 

[sachilles]

I honestly enjoyed saratoga very much. We stayed there for the first time on our last visit, which was a last minute deal from a points rental website.
We'll look to rent points again unless a killer deal comes out for a moderate. We were at POR and CBR previously. We stayed at All-star movie for one night before moving to SSR. Really didn't care for it at all. Felt like a motel 6 with a food court and sculptures.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Eh, not worried-bought where we want to stay.

My kids are now interested in buying that they are older and love EPCOT and S wars-so they might be in the mix to.

You are not guaranteed access to anywhere...as I am not.

 

[skier_pete]

A few thoughts...

- People have mentioned a DVC only entrance, i dont think Disney would do that. as much money grabbers as they have been none of the other transportation or entrances are restricted to certain groups of people.

I've never stayed here but i have to imagine the pool and amenities need a major upgrade to be on par with DVC

Isn't there a Grand Californian only entrance? I mean theoretically they could do it. Obviously I'm with you saying they won't though.

Exactly. The two biggest problems with CBR stem from it's size. It's too spread out for easy access to it's central food court/pool area, and the bus service is pretty terrible because there are SEVEN bus stops. A DVC only build would eliminate both of these problems for the DVC members. (There's little likelyhood that a DVC resort would share amenities though they may allow access as a secondary allowance...I just don't but the "moderate DVC" concept.

So what options do we see?

A moderate level DVC
A moderate suite DVC property
A moderate suite property
A deluxe DVC, with direct park access
A deluxe DVC, with no direct park access

I feel that aside from a deluxe DVC with park access, that the space between the two port orleans resorts is the better spot for a mini tower/moderate suite property.

In a previous post I dismissed a few of those options, saying the only conceivable ones IMO are the moderate level DVC, the deluxe "lower level" DVC with no park access, and a regular deluxe DVC with park access. Some posters are dismissing the importance of that park access to what it would mean to pricing structure.

This. I feel booking SSR and OKW is a poor value for MY points while an excellent value for THEIRS.

You mentioned in an earlier post you bought at the VGF and the Poly, so you are correct, using your points at lesser resorts are a poor value for you. But think of the bargain that someone that bought at OKW in the 90s is getting to stay at YOUR resort. They are paying only about $6.50 per point and can stay at the Poly for less than $150 a night, whereas it costs you double that. Not all DVC owners are created equally.

Keep thinking about it folks. A person that bought 300 points at OKW is 1995 paid $18,000 for that contract. The same person today buying 300 points at the Poly $51,600. I don't care what you say, those two families are not in the same income bracket. (For laughs - I calculated the $18,000 adjusted for inflation - and it came to $28,000 - so yes not even close.) And then those 300 points at OKW will get you 20 nights in a studio during Magic Season. But only 12 nights in a studio at the Poly at the same time of year. So way more money for way less. (The middle class can still get in thought resale - but Disney recently made sure those customers aren't treated the same anymore by changing the resale rules,)

And look at the rooms at the resorts. Compare a OKW room to a VGF and Poly room. OKW/SSR is practical and comfortable, but by no means luxury.

The point of that little discussion - DVC is not remotely selling to same people that it used to sell to. Like Disney World itself, it's not going after the middle class, but the upper middle/wealthy. Now suddenly people think they might shift back to a more middle class by making a "moderate" DVC? I just don't buy it. They are going to find a way to make it special. To be sure they can still charge $200 a point and rent rooms at 16-25 points a night for a studio.

And there's only one way they do that at a CBR location - through access to Epcot and their own amenities. The more I think about it, the more I think they'll find a way.

 

[Madonna3]

I think you are incorrect...OKW has a loyal following.

But I saw you say "I bought gf and poly"

Nope...you bought points tied to there. It doesn't guarantee you access to it. It's all the same...you paid double what I did and I paid double what my inlaws did.

It's not a timeshare...its "vacation ownership"...as they used to say in the pitch.

I rag on Saratoga all the tine...rightfully so...but a lot of longstanding use it heavily. They are likely not too eager to go to Caribbean...

It may have a loyal following, but it has also dropped to 10 points a night and has a glutton of available inventory.

Yeah, I bought GF and Poly points and believe me, if I wasn't working on 2 Master's degrees when OKW and SSR were being sold, I would have bought then, but I had to wait until I could afford to purchase so I purchased when I could. However, having "ownership" at GF warms my cold, dead, heart when I see my name on the deed. So, no, I don't get guaranteed access, but I do get earlier access which really amounts to jack $&#@ these days, to be honest since I can never book there anyway.

Besides the access to Disney Outlet Mall, what does SSR have that CBR does not?

 

[skier_pete]

personally, I'd be ok with letting them book OKW and SSR as a sales pitch. The current DVC owners aren't booking those resorts. Hell, I pay cash to stay somewhere instead of using my points to book there. I paid cash to stay at Yacht Club last time for $260

I missed this in my previous post - but it pretty well proved my point. With a less than stellar CBR location - do you think they can sell to people..."sure spend all this money but you don't have to actually STAY there?" and then when they find out they can't get in elsewhere at 7 months? Trouble, trouble, trouble. At least you are happy with your home resort at that price.

You are not guaranteed access to anywhere...as I am not.

And another good point @Madonna3 can say she would never stay at SSR or OKW, but it's as long as she books well in advance that's probably the case. There are times of year when VGF owners are getting locked out of their own resort if they don't book right at 11 months.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It may have a loyal following, but it has also dropped to 10 points a night and has a glutton of available inventory.

Yeah, I bought GF and Poly points and believe me, if I wasn't working on 2 Master's degrees when OKW and SSR were being sold, I would have bought then, but I had to wait until I could afford to purchase so I purchased when I could. However, having "ownership" at GF warms my cold, dead, heart when I see my name on the deed. So, no, I don't get guaranteed access, but I do get earlier access which really amounts to jack $&#@ these days, to be honest since I can never book there anyway.

Besides the access to Disney Outlet Mall, what does SSR have that CBR does not?

You made my argument for me...

But as far as what Saratoga has over Caribbean?

Other than the walk to Wolfgang pucks (worth every step in gold to me)...their pools and facilities are far nicer. Even though it was haphazardly built around the failed institute.

Saratoga has a full spa. It has boat service to downtown and 3 other hotels. ...and a golf course...it has more bars and rec facilities.

Caribbean has one 8 person capacity hot tub for 2000 rooms.

Why? That all you pay for at a moderate. And not direct access to a park or downtown...no way.

HENCE the problems I speak of...

 

[Madonna3]

You mentioned in an earlier post you bought at the VGF and the Poly, so you are correct, using your points at lesser resorts are a poor value for you. But think of the bargain that someone that bought at OKW in the 90s is getting to stay at YOUR resort. They are paying only about $6.50 per point and can stay at the Poly for less than $150 a night, whereas it costs you double that. Not all DVC owners are created equally.

Exactly and the 11 month-7 month window doesn't keep anyone out so it makes it so hard for me to book. I kinda wish there was a temporary moratorium on new resorts. If I could have purchased back in 1999, I would have. However, as a broke college student, it wasn't possible.

 

[Madonna3]

I missed this in my previous post - but it pretty well proved my point. With a less than stellar CBR location - do you think they can sell to people..."sure spend all this money but you don't have to actually STAY there?" and then when they find out they can't get in elsewhere at 7 months? Trouble, trouble, trouble. At least you are happy with your home resort at that price.

Woah now, I never said that.

And another good point @Madonna3 can say she would never stay at SSR or OKW, but it's as long as she books well in advance that's probably the case. There are times of year when VGF owners are getting locked out of their own resort if they don't book right at 11 months.

I get locked out all the time. I'm glad that I have people, however, know that they want to vacation 11 months in advance and gladly pay me for the privilege of staying at my home resort. In truth, I'd like to be able to stay there a bit more myself on points instead of having to rent them and then book cash

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I missed this in my previous post - but it pretty well proved my point. With a less than stellar CBR location - do you think they can sell to people..."sure spend all this money but you don't have to actually STAY there?" and then when they find out they can't get in elsewhere at 7 months? Trouble, trouble, trouble. At least you are happy with your home resort at that price.
.

And indeed...that was exactly the sales pitch even in my time only 10 years ago...

But it was from a different angle. Then it was "buy here, move about different themes at the same level"

The point charts were aligned.

Now it's "sneak in the backdor, slither up?"

That's a change of pace...for sure.

Somebody said okw was "down to 10 points a night"?

That's up from 8...they rebalanced off the weekends.

But they didn't do what they have since... having a studio at 24 at once place and 10 at another for a bigger room...

And no bungalows either

 

[skier_pete]

Woah now, I never said that. I get locked out all the time. I'm glad that I have people, however, know that they want to vacation 11 months in advance and gladly pay me for the privilege of staying at my home resort. In truth, I'd like to be able to stay there a bit more myself on points instead of having to rent them and then book cash

I'm sorry to hear that. I know a lot of owners at VGF aren't happy about how difficult it is to book there at times.

But imagine paying those same point prices at CBR, being told you can book at VGF and Poly, and then reality sets in and you can't get into those other places much of the year. Hoo boy! And at least VGF and Poly are holding resale value. (Though I suspect Poly will drop once it sells out.) CBR without a direct access would fall down 50 % almost as soon as it's sold!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'm sorry to hear that. I know a lot of owners at VGF aren't happy about how difficult it is to book there at times.

But imagine paying those same point prices at CBR, being told you can book at VGF and Poly, and then reality sets in and you can't get into those other places much of the year. Hoo boy! And at least VGF and Poly are holding resale value. (Though I suspect Poly will drop once it sells out.) CBR without a direct access would fall down 50 % almost as soon as it's sold!

Hmmm...

Perhaps it's the combination of small number of units (true) and high points per night (true) with a minimum contract amount not tied to the property (true) means too many contracts are chunked off resulting in too many "owners"?

Just a thought...I'm just waiting for that other poster to explain to me how contracts are sold and how it could become a mess...

 

[mab2012]

So how do the decide how many contracts can be sold at a specific location? Enlighten me.

It doesn't have anything to do with the total point chart with a predefined number of total points when they file with the Florida government, does it?

The sarcasm is not necessary. I know you like to think you're the only one with a valid opinion, but others are entitled to express theirs too.

As for your question, when did I ever suggest that they wouldn't predetermine the number of points to be sold?