Why Cant They Just Leave DVCers Alone?

[DisTravels]

If he wasn’t talking to you, personally I don’t see the big deal.

It may be a poor investment for him, and a great investment for you. (Whether it be financial, or one’s sanity)

Good points.

 

[Cfabar1]

I’m way too self conscious to talk about DVC in public though. I am definitely not wearing DVC gear or talking about it where others can hear; I know it is an expensive option that many people won’t be able to swing and it would make me uncomfortable knowing others know how I spend my own money.

Me too, I have been in social or workplace settings where people mention they're members of Disney Vacation Club. I just smile and let them talk about how great it is. Very few people know we own DVC. I don't need people thinking about my choices about how I spend my discretionary income.

Funnily enough, at Disney I love chatting with members about their memberships, home resorts, how they heard about the club, etc. Especially great when you can chat with someone who has been in the club a long time and they can tell you how it has changed for better and worse.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Here’s a comeback for ya
‘Sometimes, the best return on an investment has nothing to do with money’

As someone who just took their grandchildren for the third time, I couldn't agree more. Great comeback!

 

[eticketplease]

In 2022, it happened at the Miller Road quiet pool at OKW. A woman asked the question and then I had everyone in the pool around me...LOL. It was pretty funny and I have no idea if anyone bought a contract, but they were sure interested. One woman from GB took my email and we corresponded for awhile.

Your guy was a dud. If he knew how much fun we all had, he might be singing a different tune. Dud!

It sounds like this guy you would invite this guy to the lighthouse in August and let him sweat about his "investment" choices

 

[DisnEElove]

My only regret is not jumping in earlier … we also get tired of the resale people talking about how much money direct purchasers like us ‘lost’ ..we didn’t ’lose’ a damn cent .. We did it the way we wanted to do it, don’t regret it for even a second

True. That too. Happy to be a direct member. But this guy didn't even do resale. When he mentioned he tries to visit every Christmas, I figured he was DVC ignorant, because if you're at GF resort yearly at cash prices, DVC might just make sense.

 

[DisneyMimiUSMC]

As a resale owner, I’m glad people buy direct! You can’t have a secondary market without a primary market. And neither direct nor resale make sense for all people. So it is good both exist so we can all get what we want or need.

I’m way too self conscious to talk about DVC in public though. I am definitely not wearing DVC gear or talking about it where others can hear; I know it is an expensive option that many people won’t be able to swing and it would make me uncomfortable knowing others know how I spend my own money.

As I look at my closet of DVC Member spirit jerseys. It's like my uniform.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Was this on a Disney resort bus? Because maybe this is just me but I don't generally take what I hear on the busses as gospel. I'm at WDW right now and last night I overhead someone saying they were super excited to ride the Harry Potter rides at Hollywood Studios LMAO

 

[gmi3804]

So don't let him get to you, he probably has a Hilton timeshare he can't unload...

Damn right. It's OK to disparage Hilton timeshare owners, NOT DVC!

 

[DisnEElove]

Was this on a Disney resort bus? Because maybe this is just me but I don't generally take what I hear on the busses as gospel. I'm at WDW right now and last night I overhead someone saying they were super excited to ride the Harry Potter rides at Hollywood Studios LMAO

Yes it was. The monorail broke down so we were stuck sitting right in front of the resort for about 30 mins. It was painful. We didn't ride the bus today to the park because I was traumatized

 

[pirate33]

Definitely someone who has issues and should be ignored. I will say my only regret is not buying DVC earlier (particularly VGC and BLT, where I now own). For many years, I dismissed DVC as another timeshare and, based on everything I had read about timeshares, something to be avoided. Then about ten years ago we stayed on the hotel side of Aulani, and we kept getting asked at restaurants if we were DVC members, and I was intrigued to do my research. Well, after a lot of research, I decided DVC was for us and just love the ability to stay at my happy places frequently and sometimes gift stays to family and friends. There’s nothing like helping others have some Disney magic!

And as others have said, the whole point of a DVC purchase is not an investment but consumption but at a discount from what cash hotel rooms would cost and—even more importantly for me—to have 1BR and 2BR units with kitchens and laundry facilities. That is just so awesome!

As it turns out, some of my points have turned out to give a great financial return, especially VGC which I bought resale at around $120. However, I will never sell those points so I will most likely never realize that profit! I’m about to sell some points at a modest loss because I have accumulated too many but I won’t lose a wink of sleep over it.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

As someone who just took their grandchildren for the third time, I couldn't agree more. Great comeback!

Here’s a comeback for ya
‘Sometimes, the best return on an investment has nothing to do with money’

Yeah but who is the comeback directed toward??
This was a conversation the OP overheard between two non members.

Sometimes I think folks should not eves drop and just mind their own business.

 

[TCRAIG]

Yeah but who is the comeback directed toward??
This was a conversation the OP overheard between two non members.

Sometimes I think folks should not eves drop and just mind their own business.

I got the feeling that the OP felt that - even though the DVC Debbie Downer was not talking directly to them - since they were carrying DVC swag and were members - it kind of was directed towards them…

 

[zackiedawg]

I've never run into such a person, but if i did, they wouldn't bother me at all. Everything I buy, I buy for me. Most of those things are not bought as an investment to try to earn a profit - I get my money's worth out of it and don't care what it's worth after I'm done with it. That goes for DVC, as well as my house and car. I keep and use all of those things enough that I've gotten my 'investment' out of the comfort, enjoyment, and pleasure they've given me, not what I sell them for. I pretty much intended to use my DVC until the contract runs out, then probably re-up again...the 20-30 days a year I enjoy staying in a nice large villa on property is what justifies the cost.

I never listen to those who say not to buy a particular color of car, or brand because the resale value is less - I'm going to drive the wheels off it and enjoy every moment, so at the end of 4-7 years when I decide to replace it with another, I could sell it for $100 and still feel I got my money's worth out of it.

Redesigning my house in neutral colors or materials because it will sell better is pointless for me - I intend to keep my house for a very long time and I want it to be designed to make me happy...a generic white box with neutral everything isn't what I want to live in. I'll take the hit if and when I decide to sell if the materials or colors I picked are too personal and don't play as well to a wide buying audience...or I'll spend $10-20K to paint it all neutral before putting it on the market.

If you're buying into DVC with the expressed intent to park and grow your money and hope for the best possible return, then yes, DVC is a pretty poor investment overall. But if you're buying DVC to enjoy your Disney trips and have nice, big lodgings onsite to stay in, the only part that matters is that you can afford it and you use it and enjoy it.

 

[atthebeachclub]

I've never run into such a person, but if i did, they wouldn't bother me at all. Everything I buy, I buy for me. Most of those things are not bought as an investment to try to earn a profit - I get my money's worth out of it and don't care what it's worth after I'm done with it. That goes for DVC, as well as my house and car. I keep and use all of those things enough that I've gotten my 'investment' out of the comfort, enjoyment, and pleasure they've given me, not what I sell them for. I pretty much intended to use my DVC until the contract runs out, then probably re-up again...the 20-30 days a year I enjoy staying in a nice large villa on property is what justifies the cost.

I never listen to those who say not to buy a particular color of car, or brand because the resale value is less - I'm going to drive the wheels off it and enjoy every moment, so at the end of 4-7 years when I decide to replace it with another, I could sell it for $100 and still feel I got my money's worth out of it.

Redesigning my house in neutral colors or materials because it will sell better is pointless for me - I intend to keep my house for a very long time and I want it to be designed to make me happy...a generic white box with neutral everything isn't what I want to live in. I'll take the hit if and when I decide to sell if the materials or colors I picked are too personal and don't play as well to a wide buying audience...or I'll spend $10-20K to paint it all neutral before putting it on the market.

If you're buying into DVC with the expressed intent to park and grow your money and hope for the best possible return, then yes, DVC is a pretty poor investment overall. But if you're buying DVC to enjoy your Disney trips and have nice, big lodgings onsite to stay in, the only part that matters is that you can afford it and you use it and enjoy it.

I truly appreciate your outlook here, beyond DVC.

 

[BlueGreen5]

I bet this person is a lot of fun at parties too!

Nevertheless, I do think you need to look at DVC from the financial perspective, and this is how I respond to this type of person (granted, I'm a bit more analytical):

A non-DVCer COULD still go to Disney every year and stay at Deluxe resorts and have the same experience as a DVC member. If money was literally no object, your Disney experience as a non-DVC member versus a DVC member would not be materially different. So, the question about whether to purchase DVC is really just a financial one, not at all an emotional one. But, unless you have access to ROIs that most ordinary folks do not, if your future plans involve Disney parks*, it's a pretty slam dunk case in favor of DVC. At many of the resorts, you are giving up the time value of your cash (maybe an 8% annualized ROI, or so) for deep immediate savings. My points cost me about $9 per year. A non-DVCer would pay about $26 to rent them through a reputable broker. To pay the cash rates, it's the equivalent of $30-$40+ per point in many cases. So yes, I am trading the time value of my cash to save thousands of dollars on something that I was already going to purchase. The key assumption being that I was already going to purchase this; you need to accept that fact when doing your comparative analysis.

What's my alternative, then? Not buying my DVC membership and investing the cash. Let's say I bought 200 points resale at $150/per point. That's a $30,000 investment that I'll probably recover when I'm done, potentially even at a gain. Let's say I use my points consistently every year, and that the cash-rate equivlent of my points is $30 (which is really conservative). Given that my dues are in the $9 range, that means I'm saving at least $21 per point, or a total of at least $4,200. I could not expect to realize $4,200 in earnings every year by investing that $30,000 in the stock market. So, my DVC membership puts me in a better financial position than paying cash for my room.

* With that said, the true debate this person wants to have is actually whether or not purchasing a Disney vacation - DVC aside - is a good use of your money. But that's a subjective question that everyone is going to answer differently and one for which there is no right or wrong answer. That's also probably not a debate that's worthwhile to have AT WDW.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I bet this person is a lot of fun at parties too!

Nevertheless, I do think you need to look at DVC from the financial perspective, and this is how I respond to this type of person (granted, I'm a bit more analytical):

A non-DVCer COULD still go to Disney every year and stay at Deluxe resorts and have the same experience as a DVC member. If money was literally no object, your Disney experience as a non-DVC member versus a DVC member would not be materially different. So, the question about whether to purchase DVC is really just a financial one, not at all an emotional one. But, unless you have access to ROIs that most ordinary folks do not, if your future plans involve Disney parks*, it's a pretty slam dunk case in favor of DVC. At many of the resorts, you are giving up the time value of your cash (maybe an 8% annualized ROI, or so) for deep immediate savings. My points cost me about $9 per year. A non-DVCer would pay about $26 to rent them through a reputable broker. To pay the cash rates, it's the equivalent of $30-$40+ per point in many cases. So yes, I am trading the time value of my cash to save thousands of dollars on something that I was already going to purchase. The key assumption being that I was already going to purchase this; you need to accept that fact when doing your comparative analysis.

What's my alternative, then? Not buying my DVC membership and investing the cash. Let's say I bought 200 points resale at $150/per point. That's a $30,000 investment that I'll probably recover when I'm done, potentially even at a gain. Let's say I use my points consistently every year, and that the cash-rate equivlent of my points is $30 (which is really conservative). Given that my dues are in the $9 range, that means I'm saving at least $21 per point, or a total of at least $4,200. I could not expect to realize $4,200 in earnings every year by investing that $30,000 in the stock market. So, my DVC membership puts me in a better financial position than paying cash for my room.

* With that said, the true debate this person wants to have is actually whether or not purchasing a Disney vacation - DVC aside - is a good use of your money. But that's a subjective question that everyone is going to answer differently and one for which there is no right or wrong answer. That's also probably not a debate that's worthwhile to have AT WDW.

I feel this analysis is a bit skewed either by aggressive assumptions or historical data that can not be replicated for a buyer at today’s prices.

1) $9 per point annual dues. Does not include the impact of the initial upfront buy in or the lost annual interest on that initial capital outlay.

In your example of $30,000… I think most would feel a 4.5% return (10yr UST) is a reasonable baseline as there is no principal risk or investment skill required.

That is $1350 per year in ongoing costs (about $7pp) that need to be added to the depreciating initial investment of the $30,000 held to expiration. Let’s amortize that over 38 years and and make that $789 a year or about $4pp.

So, your total is really around $9+$7+$4=$20pp ish

2) Renting at $26pp. Maybe a spec rental for a hard to get room or resort. $18-20pp is more realistic for anyone who would be a frequent renter.

So, this is why many people say that owning is about break even vs renting.

Now, is there value in having complete control and flexibility of your vacation… the ability to keep at eye out for new resorts you have not stayed at before…. the mental health benefits of always having a vacation you can be planning for…. I believe so.

My point is not that DVC is not a good vacation program to buy into…. just that it is not a slam dunk investment equivalent to an 8% ROI. It’s a luxury purchase.

 

[VandVsmama]

I feel this analysis is a bit skewed either by aggressive assumptions or historical data that can not be replicated for a buyer at today’s prices.

1) $9 per point annual dues. Does not include the impact of the initial upfront buy in or the lost annual interest on that initial capital outlay.

In your example of $30,000… I think most would feel a 4.5% return (10yr UST) is a reasonable baseline as there is no principal risk or investment skill required.

That is $1350 per year in ongoing costs (about $7pp) that need to be added to the depreciating initial investment of the $30,000 held to expiration. Let’s amortize that over 38 years and and make that $789 a year or about $4pp.

So, your total is really around $9+$7+$4=$20pp ish

2) Renting at $26pp. Maybe a spec rental for a hard to get room or resort. $18-20pp is more realistic for anyone who would be a frequent renter.

So, this is why many people say that owning is about break even vs renting.

Now, is there value in having complete control and flexibility of your vacation… the ability to keep at eye out for new resorts you have not stayed at before…. the mental health benefits of always having a vacation you can be planning for…. I believe so.

My point is not that DVC is not a good vacation program to buy into…. just that it is not a slam dunk investment equivalent to an 8% ROI. It’s a luxury purchase.

Fair point.

But hey...would any of us REALLY be getting into a detailed debate about DVC with a total stranger in an elevator? Especially someone who is clearly against a DVC purchase? ;-)

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I got the feeling that the OP felt that - even though the DVC Debbie Downer was not talking directly to them - since they were carrying DVC swag and were members - it kind of was directed towards them…

That’s a reasonable assumption.

That said, there are sooo many DVC’rs today that it’s hard not to be in ear shot of one of them.

I guess my point is, it’s not about financial benefit.
Quality of life also has a huge return on investment.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Fair point.

But hey...would any of us REALLY be getting into a detailed debate about DVC with a total stranger in an elevator? Especially someone who is clearly against a DVC purchase? ;-)

Like it was my job…..

 

[GGGT]

........................................

People like that aren't worth your time.

Exactly. Whether it's a DVC comment or any other, I simply look at them and don't respond. (These types of comments seem to be always unsolicited and derogatory in nature)