Where to go from here? (Possible debate, gun control)

[SirDuff]

That's very kind of you, but as many of you might have coined, most of my thoughts involve bacon

You say that like it is a bad thing!

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'll look it up for you. I think it was the University of Sydney? Mind you, I've seen a LOT of statistics all very similar to these so I guess it's a case of take your pick

As I said though, I'll look it up for you.

I'd be more interested in compairing rates within the UK over time. Do you have that available? What was your rate 20 years ago? 50 years ago? 100 years ago? What years did major legislation restricting guns take place? And are the stats you listed exclusive to gun-related deaths? Or, overall?

Edit: NM read a little closer that they are gun specific. I need to slow down

 

[SirDuff]

I'll look it up for you. I think it was the University of Sydney? Mind you, I've seen a LOT of statistics all very similar to these so I guess it's a case of take your pick

As I said though, I'll look it up for you.

I can find your numbers on Wikipedia. For the US numbers it cites "Guns in United States" and for the UK numbers is cites "Guns in the United Kingdom". Both appear to be published by "GunPolicy.org" out of the University of Sydney (as you thought).

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/

Trying to follow-up on their sources. Interestingly, the Wikipedia article cites "Guns in X" for most countries, but not Canada. Canada comes from Stats Can.

For what its worth (depends on how they got their numbers), the GunPolicy.org cite gives what Gumbo wants - numbers for the UK for a series of years.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I saw this earlier when I was looking for something else

BBC: Why British police don't have guns

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19641398

 

[lauradis]

This is an interesting article from the Dept of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics

Homicide Trends in the U.S, 1980-2008

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

i would be interest to see what the correlation of the over all economic in the country to the rise in crime.

 

[Topper]

Do you the difference in a continent and a country? Our borders affect us. Our continent is larger than Australia.

Of course I KNOW.

 

[Topper]

Population 23,829,607 Australian vs American 318.9 million

So your point was????????

Is. My point is, is that population was not mentioned in the post I quoted. Was it???????

 

[lauradis]

Is. My point is, is that population was not mentioned in the post I quoted. Was it???????

I was joking,, but size of land or less of dense area of population would play a hugh part in crime rates, gun or no gun.

 

[Tiggeroo]

You know, I want to make a further point. I'm pretty liberal. I've been pulling the democrat lever in the voting booth since I could vote. Actually, I'm just about a socialist, but hear me out.

There's more than one issue surrounding the "gun problem" in the United States. It's not a one size fits all solution. As I said in my last post, the gun violence in areas like on the south side of Chicago aren't going to be fixed by more legislation. That's already failed. We need to solve the problem causing the violence and there won't be peace there until that happens, regardless of the weapon used.

In same cases, gun violence comes from a lack of knowledge surrounding gun safety. We need to make sure people who own guns know how to safely handle their guns to stop accidental discharges that kill people. No amount of legislation can fix that problem.

We need to be smart about our legislation. We need to figure out what is causing breaks in mental health care to create people who mastermind and then execute mass killings. It's not super rare. What's going on?

As a country, we need to have a debate, civilly, about what's reasonable to own. Body armor penetrating bullets? No. Semi-automatic weapons? No. Hunting rifles? Yes. Hand guns that hold a few rounds? Yes. Until people can be reasonable in this discussion we won't get any place and it won't be long before there's another tragedy and we're all wringing our hands again.

Finally somebody with close to my opinion. I am also fairly liberal. There is a part of me that would love to be anti-gun and would love for that to work. I don't think it will. I believe that dishonest or mentally unstable people will still be able to get guns. We need to address the problems in our inner-cities leading to violence for one type of gun crime. And then all together separately we need to deal with the problems caused by mental illness. Also a trigger is the wealth inequality in the country making some people feel they have no future, power or recourse. Most of these other countries with strict gun laws also have free health insurance that includes mental health treatment. I have very good health insurance and yet it extremely weak in the mental health coverage department. So first if a person wants to get help they may not be able to or there may be an enormous amount of red tape or a wait so that by then they are no longer willing to get help. 2nd we treat mental illness like it is bad and not just another health problem. Almost all of these terrible shootings are people who are so ill they do not care that they are going to die too. They plan a way to die that will allow them to hurt as many people as possible. Without guns they will simply use other weapons.
Nobody needs body piercing armor or machine guns, ever. Every state should have a substantial waiting period to eliminate guns purchased on impulse for a crime of passion. Gun ownership should come with extensive training. You should be required to demonstrate knowledge of and ownership of safe storage.

 

[Tiggeroo]

America has its gun violence for sure. But our bombing rates are lower

Violence is Violence, no matter what weapon is used.

We will have to agree to agree to disagree on this one.

A simple shot gun has saved my life twice, I will never give up my guns to the government.

How about this we empty the for profit jails, turn them back over to state run jails, empty all the drug users out and make jail a work program for violent offenders, with the worst sentences for guns used in crimes?

Yes, Yes. We are filling up these for-profit jails with the wrong people. The jails should be for the real criminals and they should be a combination of unpleasant and rehabilitation. Work programs that give skills and maybe some self-respect. If you do something that physically threatens or harms another person then you go to prison.

 

[cabanafrau]

Putting some real effort into addressing mental health issues and better access to mental health care would make a big difference in a wide range of problems.

 

[jevs]

If you're going to compare the gun laws of my country with yours it is probably better to use relevant and recent information. Here is one news article to get you started http://www.theage.com.au/comment/why-the-nra-has-australia-in-its-sights-20150714-gic1a6.html
The Conversation is a good place to get an academic perspective if you don't have access to peer reviewed journals.
Meanwhile I'll just sit here and continue to feel ill whenever news comes of another mass shooting.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Putting some real effort into addressing mental health issues and better access to mental health care would make a big difference in a wide range of problems.

We also need to have a hard look at the kind of mental "help" that is available. Many of our recent mass shooters had been utilizing mental health services, and many had been prescribed powerful anti-depressants that can have unpleasant side effects.

 

[cabanafrau]

We also need to have a hard look at the kind of mental "help" that is available. Many of our recent mass shooters had been utilizing mental health services, and many had been prescribed powerful anti-depressants that can have unpleasant side effects.

That would fall under "putting some real effort" into the problem. Meds have to be carefully monitored and, even if the right med is found, dosages need to be adjusted and the med may not be effective forever. They also have to be part of a comprehensive therapeutic approach.

Unfortunately the media latches onto details like previous treatment and/or med use and that's the end of the information. Many of those who need this type of intervention themselves latch onto these kinds of incomplete narratives and stand firm on it for not pursuing or following treatment themselves. Better and more thorough care along with better information about treatment for mental illness would help combat problems like crime, drug abuse, prison overcrowding, along with domestic and mass violence. So many could live happier and more productive lives if we got very serious about mental health care as a priority, not simply those needing the intervention, but all of us who live together in society.

 

[dinolounger]

Gun control does not work. You need criminal control.

You are absolutely correct. But the ultimate goal of many here is weapon confiscation. Interestingly, many of them are the same people who are simultaneously pushing to decriminalize things, starting with "recreational" drug use but with a much broader ultimate agenda. Examples: NYC councilwoman Melissa Mark-Viverito has proposed a motion to decriminalize wonderful behaviors like public urination and jumping subway turnstiles.

 

[TLSnell1981]

But it happens a LOT less in places where guns are not legal and readily available--even places where they once were.

But, it's not the guns. It's the people, that make the difference.

 

[Domo]

Just in case I run the risk of being a universal gun hater, I'm off shooting tonight with my trusty rimfire .22 For me, it's all about the accuracy and drills. Safety is paramount and now comes naturally.

Down at the club, we actually had a weirdo recently. He came in to the range with a pellet gun and declared, "I like guns" and that he liked to "hang them over his mantelpiece" where he can "touch them and stroke them".

Oddball.