What is going on with Disney parks?

[hertamaniac]

I think SeaWorld is aware that they can’t really compete with Disney directly, so they’ve gone for a market that is nonexistent in Orlando, the thrill park. Right now they’re outbuilding every other park company in regards to coasters, and seem to be aiming to continue that for the next few years. High thrill coasters paired with their animal shows provide enough of a balance to draw a spectrum of crowds.

I wouldn't necessarily say there is a nonexistent thrill park market in Orlando. Fun Spot USA offers some thrill rides at a budget friendly price. But, clearly they don't have the financial strength of SeaWorld and can't offer their magnitude of thrill rides.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don’t think thrill coasters are as popular as some believe.

You've been talking to too many Disney lovers who love more tamer rides (I myself like mostly tamer rides)

The thrill market is huge. The adrenaline seekers, the thrill ride lovers. It's big. But it's not who Disney's target market is. And that's ok. I like the addition of Tron and other such rides at Disney but I know their target market base is not the people who like huge drops (like the ones you get at other parks, inversions, etc). With exception to Incredicoaster (it's present name and theming) over at DLR which is fairly tame in the world of those types of coasters.

Various sites I've read by type of ride roller coasters are the world's most popular amusement park ride and pretty much every other park out there has at least 1 (usually multiple) coasters considered high thrill either by height of drops, inversions, type of seating,etc.

My own amusement park has Planet Snoopy and the like for kids but the draw to bring people in is always the newest thrill ride. Sure new rides in general will draw people in but it's the thrill rides that people are looking forward to.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

The thrill market is huge. The adrenaline seekers, the thrill ride lovers. It's big.

It’s not as big as the family market though. And I think that’s why the family ride at SW consistently has a longer wait than the coasters.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

It’s not as big as the family market though. And I think that’s why the family ride at SW consistently has a longer wait than the coasters.

You're conflating something.

Long waits aren't tit for tat in popularity--length of ride, loading of ride, ride capacity, etc they all interact.

In any case you've missed pertinent information I've provided but whatevs

 

[Jrb1979]

It’s not as big as the family market though. And I think that’s why the family ride at SW consistently has a longer wait than the coasters.

With the addition of Ice Breaker I think that will change cause it has a lower height requirement. For the most part coasters have shown it boosts attendance when a new one is added. I'm more excited for when Tron opens then Mickey and Minnie's runaway railway

 

[Remy is Up]

I don’t think thrill coasters are as popular as some believe.

The success of cedar point, bg, six flags, etc etc would say otherwise

 

[Remy is Up]

The success of cedar point, bg, six flags, etc etc would say otherwise. Maybe you should see what the expected crowds from all over the u.s.are going to be for bg tampa when iron gwazi opens. It's the most anticipated coaster right now. When cedar point, kings island, carowinds, six flags, opens new coasters, the places get a huge bump. I adore wdw and we go a ton but we go to sea world and bg a lot on our aps because of the thrill rides. We hate all the screen rides at universal but enjoy the thrill rides. You cam love disney and also enjoy and realize thrill ride parks have a place and do well.

 

[Remy is Up]

With the addition of Ice Breaker I think that will change cause it has a lower height requirement. For the most part coasters have shown it boosts attendance when a new one is added. I'm more excited for when Tron opens then Mickey and Minnie's runaway railway

Ice breaker should be a good addition. Itll be like a more kid friendly version of cheetah at bg. And currently I believe cheetah is one of the best reridable attractions in florida. Iron gwazi changes the game but it certainly is not for kids or the faint of heart.

 

[dieumeye]

The success of cedar point, bg, six flags, etc etc would say otherwise

Obviously there’s a market for thrill rides, but there’s no comparison between Disney & Six Flags. Disneyland and Magic Mountain are about 90 minutes away from each other. Disneyland is packed year round. Magic Mountain is rarely packed, and even if it’s busy lines are short for all but the absolute newest ride.

That’s the main difference in approach, I think. Disney is building rides to last decades. The issue with the thrill ride approach is that the new ride will spike attendance when it opens, it’ll still be cool for a couple years, but pretty quickly the “hot new coaster” of a few years ago starts to feel “lesser than” whatever new thing has been built. And this seems to happen at a faster and more obvious rate with pure thrill rides than it does with many “attraction” type rides that Disney usually builds.

It’s nice to have both. If I want to ride a bunch of thrill rides, I’ll buy a cheap one day ticket to Magic Mountain and get my full for awhile. But Disney is the place where I’ll go back again and again and again and experience attractions again and again for years.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

The success of cedar point, bg, six flags, etc etc would say otherwise

None of them are as successful as Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

Obviously there’s a market for thrill rides, but there’s no comparison between Disney & Six Flags. Disneyland and Magic Mountain are about 90 minutes away from each other. Disneyland is packed year round. Magic Mountain is rarely packed, and even if it’s busy lines are short for all but the absolute newest ride.

That’s the main difference in approach, I think. Disney is building rides to last decades. The issue with the thrill ride approach is that the new ride will spike attendance when it opens, it’ll still be cool for a couple years, but pretty quickly the “hot new coaster” of a few years ago starts to feel “lesser than” whatever new thing has been built. And this seems to happen at a faster and more obvious rate with pure thrill rides than it does with many “attraction” type rides that Disney usually builds.

It’s nice to have both. If I want to ride a bunch of thrill rides, I’ll buy a cheap one day ticket to Magic Mountain and get my full for awhile. But Disney is the place where I’ll go back again and again and again and experience attractions again and again for years.

I'm the exact opposite. I like Disney and had lots of fun when I went last year but I enjoy Cedar point much more. I like theming but want the thrills to go with them. I would take a Steel Vengeance over RoTR any day.

Disney has shown they can do high thrills with good theming. Look at Tower of Terror and Rockin Roller coaster. I would be nice if they did a few more rides like that in between the low thrill high theme rides

 

[ClapYourHands]

It’s not as big as the family market though. And I think that’s why the family ride at SW consistently has a longer wait than the coasters.

How many family rides does SW have vs coasters? A ride that more people can go on in a park geared towards multigenerational crowds is often going to have a larger draw than a coaster that excludes a large number of park-goers. I think one of the mistakes some parks make is they have thrill rides AND kiddie rides, but not much in between. When you have a park that is primarily geared to thrill seekers, that's who will go.

We have passes to Six Flags, and it drives me nuts that the kiddie rides are segregated into two little areas, and the thrill rides are the majority of the park, and there's not much that we can all ride together. My family always has to split up if I have my older kids (11-year-old LOVES roller coasters and will go on anything - the bigger the better) and my 4-year-old (who met basically no height requirements last year). This year, I'll be able to take her on the one family-ish coaster, but the line for that is far shorter than for the big coasters. The reason? Most guests aren't bringing their little kids to the park because Six Flags doesn't have much for them to do.

Obviously there’s a market for thrill rides, but there’s no comparison between Disney & Six Flags. Disneyland and Magic Mountain are about 90 minutes away from each other. Disneyland is packed year round. Magic Mountain is rarely packed, and even if it’s busy lines are short for all but the absolute newest ride.

Magic Mountain isn't a destination because it's just like a lot of other parks. With thrill rides being easy to produce by third party manufacturers, many local parks have them, and people can get a thrill fix close to home. I don't have to go to California to ride a big coaster; I can drive an hour from my house to ride Superman. If you added up all the people riding thrill rides at all the Six Flags and other amusement parks, you'd probably find a huge number. Disney does multigenerational parks the best, so you see a concentration of people there looking for that, hence the crowds. The thrill market is much more saturated, and the crowds are dispersed throughout the country.

Disney is fantastic at the details and including unique non-ride experiences that interest the whole family. Universal does the same, though they are skewed towards an older market. Disney and Universal also invest far more into the R&D to come up with new ride technologies, and immerse the rider in a story. Six Flags slaps the name of a DC hero on a generic coaster, and calls it good. In my teens and 20s, I would have chosen thrill rides over Disney easily. Now with children and a smaller personal tolerance for thrill, I'm back to appreciating Disney more. However, I will still spend more days at Six Flags than I will at Disney this year, mainly due to proximity.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree that Disney is great for families. I disagree that you can go to any local park and ride superman. Not all coasters are the same, I go to Cedar Point multiple times a year as they some of the best coasters in the U.S. Only 1 other park has a coaster that goes up 420 feet and 120 mph.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree that Disney is great for families. I disagree that you can go to any local park and ride superman. Not all coasters are the same, I go to Cedar Point multiple times a year as they some of the best coasters in the U.S. Only 1 other park has a coaster that goes up 420 feet and 120 mph.

I think you'll be able to find thrill coasters in just about any park out there though and they tend to be a main draw.

Parks do try and have their own unique ride that can't be had elsewhere or the next ride is similar to another ride elsewhere (or within a certain proximity to the park) but is just one step above it (so maybe higher, bigger drop, more inversions, etc). But there are also a variety of coasters that share similarities with each other.

I could see myself making a special trip to Cedar Point but if I'm just looking for a good time I can drive 40-45mins to Worlds of Fun. That doesn't mean Cedar Point doesn't have awesome things, that they don't have coasters that would knock my socks off or isn't worth a trip but it's an 11 1/2hr drive vs a 40-45min drive. Now thrill seekers can take advantage of purchasing season passes that allow you to go to any other Cedar Fair owned property and there are def. people out there that I'm sure get that and make a whole summer or frequent enough trips out there to take advantage of it.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think you'll be able to find thrill coasters in just about any park out there though and they tend to be a main draw.

Parks do try and have their own unique ride that can't be had elsewhere or the next ride is similar to another ride elsewhere (or within a certain proximity to the park) but is just one step above it (so maybe higher, bigger drop, more inversions, etc). But there are also a variety of coasters that share similarities with each other.

I could see myself making a special trip to Cedar Point but if I'm just looking for a good time I can drive 40-45mins to Worlds of Fun. That doesn't mean Cedar Point doesn't have awesome things, that they don't have coasters that would knock my socks off or isn't worth a trip but it's an 11 1/2hr drive vs a 40-45min drive. Now thrill seekers can take advantage of purchasing season passes that allow you to go to any other Cedar Fair owned property and there are def. people out there that I'm sure get that and make a whole summer or frequent enough trips out there to take advantage of it.

That person you described is me. I have the platinum pass for Cedar Point and visit multiple parks a summer. Last year alone I visited 7 different parks. This year won't be as many as I do have a 4 month old but still planning on visiting 5 different parks. I do have 2 parks within 1 hour of each other to me but prefer the 4 hour drive to Cedar Point. I find my local parks just don't have the atmosphere or rides that Cedar Point does.

 

[Remy is Up]

None of them are as successful as Disney.

Noone said they are. That wasnt the statement made. To assume the market for thrill parks is negligible isnt supported by data.noone expects thrill parks to be Disney. It's not apple's to apple's. Different crowd. Different dynamic. Even universal isnt disney. The comment was that thrill parks arent a big deal and my response is simply they are popular or they wouldn't be open.reading comprehension

 

[Douglas Dubh]

Noone said they are. That wasnt the statement made. To assume the market for thrill parks is negligible isnt supported by data.noone expects thrill parks to be Disney. It's not apple's to apple's. Different crowd. Different dynamic. Even universal isnt disney. The comment was that thrill parks arent a big deal and my response is simply they are popular or they wouldn't be open.reading comprehension

I never claimed the market for thrill parks is negligible, so please don’t try to lecture me about reading comprehension. I just think it’s a mistake for SW and BG to overemphasize thrill rides and certainly don’t think Disney should go down that path.

 

[Jrb1979]

I never claimed the market for thrill parks is negligible, so please don’t try to lecture me about reading comprehension. I just think it’s a mistake for SW and BG to overemphasize thrill rides and certainly don’t think Disney should go down that path.

SW and BG may emphasize thrill rides. At BG, a lot of their bigger rides have a height requirement of 48" and SW just added Ice Breaker with a similar height requirement. Those IMO, would be considered a family ride. I don't think Disney will go down the path of emphasizing thrill rides but they could use a few more thrilling rides.

 

[Csaks]

Found our point a few years ago. Between price going up and up, Disney nickel and dimeing the experience and the new FastPass system.
It has been a death of a thousand cuts since we started going in 2000. The vibe is different on the property compared to then. Off the top of my head I can't come up with anything specific, silly things hit me while we are there all the time. Now I'm reading Photopass is in a box like at the mall? Planning years in advance as to what and where you are going to eat, I remember walking into Epcot, going to guest services that day and making a reservation for somewhere for that night. They have a brand new ride you need to get to the gate at opening to have any chance to ride.
Sadly the last three trips to Florida we had a choice of Disney or Universal and chose Universal for price, (seasons pass gets you a good discount on hotels), for fun (no need to plan were and when you need to go months in advance, just get up and go where ever you feel like that day) and that whole reason for going on vacation, relaxing, putting the phone down and just chilling. Finding I seem to be on that thing all the time in Disney checking or trying for FP's

 

[Remy is Up]

Douglas Dubh said:
I don’t think thrill coasters are as popular as some believe.

Your own words. As I said, I never compared them to Disney. You made an assumptive statement based in no fact but opinion that thrill coasters arent popular and used that to morph into well its not as popular as Disney so you could validate a complete false statement. Moving the goal posts. I NEVER compared the two merely said that the data and success of the Coaster industry is absolutely in opposition to your assertion/Opinion. Disney is great, absolutely. It is a theme park built to cater to all forms of guests. Sea World, BG, etc etc arent trying to compete with Disney. They realize their market is different and dont pretend otherwise. Their Niche is they can and do put a huge focus on large thrill rides, amazing coasters. And no coasters are not a dime a dozen. There isnt a coaster at Disney I would put in the Florida top 10. Do I like the ones at Disney? Yep. But, its a different animal. And as someone said, you cant go to just any park and ride any coaster. Superman is a different coaster. The new Iron Gwazi in BG Tampa will push the limits of hybrid coasters. Coasters are always pushing limits on the thrill factor. And thats why those parks do well. because there is a rather large market for people who enjoy coasters. Therefore your initial assertion was an opinion that had nothign to back it up and then you doubled down and brought in a comparison to Disney, which noone esle made. Hence, yes, reading comprehension.