What 10 hours of street harassment in NYC looks like

[JenM]

Curious...

if a strange woman walks past you in the street or in a store and says "I love your shoes"... what does that mean? If you reply with a thank you, and she continues with "where did you get them and how much..."


As for me, I from time to time will "nod" my head and say good morning or hello IF I happen to make eye contact. This applies to women OR men. Now, it could be the women and I make eye contact but the man behind her and I don't..... what then?

And for the record, I have received cat calls from women so its not just men that do it. Not saying when EITHER gender do it that its right or welcomed, but lets not use such a wide brush.

Yes, it would be unnerving if a strange woman started asking me all about my shoes in the middle of the street. I don't know who you are, I'm probably trying to get somewhere. That's just strange to happen.

 

[TAX GUY]

Yes, it would be unnerving if a strange woman started asking me all about my shoes in the middle of the street. I don't know who you are, I'm probably trying to get somewhere. That's just strange to happen.

Wasn't strange to me, which is why I asked. My wife LOVES all things shoes. She will comment to a strange woman about her shoes if she likes them. More often than not its to also find out where she got them so she can get them! On the same token, there have been plenty of times its happened to her as well. A strange woman comments on my wife's shoes.

 

[JenM]

Wasn't strange to me, which is why I asked. My wife LOVES all things shoes. She will comment to a strange woman about her shoes if she likes them. More often than not its to also find out where she got them so she can get them! On the same token, there have been plenty of times its happened to her as well. A strange woman comments on my wife's shoes.

But working in NY as long as I have, I've seen women start with the comment about the shoes, then it turns out to be a pitch for something else - they need money for the bus, they want you to sign up for something, etc. It winds up being a false start to a different conversation. So I'd prefer the conversation not start.

Your wife could honestly be asking about my shoes...but I don't know who she is, so I probably won't stop or even take my headphones off. Most of us aren't fans of the random conversation.

 

[snapppyd]

But working in NY as long as I have, I've seen women start with the comment about the shoes, then it turns out to be a pitch for something else - they need money for the bus, they want you to sign up for something, etc. It winds up being a false start to a different conversation. So I'd prefer the conversation not start.

Your wife could honestly be asking about my shoes...but I don't know who she is, so I probably won't stop or even take my headphones off. Most of us aren't fans of the random conversation.

I think we are beating our heads against a wall here. If someone has not walked in the city and had this happen to them they just don't get it. I can't believe women are dismissing the feelings of other women. This is part of the reason crimes go unreported - being told you are imagining things or that it is somehow your fault that it happened to you.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think we are beating our heads against a wall here. If someone has not walked in the city and had this happen to them they just don't get it. I can't believe women are dismissing the feelings of other women. This is part of the reason crimes go unreported - being told you are imagining things or that it is somehow your fault that it happened to you.

Has anyone on this thread even implied the bolded much less said it?

 

[wilkeliza]

Curious... if a strange woman walks past you in the street or in a store and says "I love your shoes"... what does that mean? If you reply with a thank you, and she continues with "where did you get them and how much..." As for me, I from time to time will "nod" my head and say good morning or hello IF I happen to make eye contact. This applies to women OR men. Now, it could be the women and I make eye contact but the man behind her and I don't..... what then? And for the record, I have received cat calls from women so its not just men that do it. Not saying when EITHER gender do it that its right or welcomed, but lets not use such a wide brush.

Depends on how you describe strange.

Now if a stranger (man or woman) comes up and says "omg your shoes are amazing where did you get them" I would politely respond and maybe even discuss shoes with them. If a stranger were to say "nice shoes want to kick them off at my place?" Totally different experiences.

I have had positive experience with men I don't know. Some want to know where I bought my safety vest or if I like my GPS watch. Those are fine conversations to have with a stranger. However, there is a line and for me that is the sexualized comments or ogling.

 

[TAX GUY]

Depends on how you describe strange.

Now if a stranger (man or woman) comes up and says "omg your shoes are amazing where did you get them" I would politely respond and maybe even discuss shoes with them. If a stranger were to say "nice shoes want to kick them off at my place?" Totally different experiences.

I have had positive experience with men I don't know. Some want to know where I bought my safety vest or if I like my GPS watch. Those are fine conversations to have with a stranger. However, there is a line and for me that is the sexualized comments or ogling.

and that's why I am asking. Up thread someone mentioned a simple "have a nice day" or "nice outfit" or similar and that its only a cover for a hidden agenda. The question was, what if that was really only meant as a compliment? Also commented was men do say it to other men. I asked what if a woman asked another woman what seemed to be a harmless question or pay her a complement... would that make it any different.

I agree with threeboysmom.... a lot has to do with where and what the person looks like that's asking.

 

[wilkeliza]

and that's why I am asking. Up thread someone mentioned a simple "have a nice day" or "nice outfit" or similar and that its only a cover for a hidden agenda. The question was, what if that was really only meant as a compliment? Also commented was men do say it to other men. I asked what if a woman asked another woman what seemed to be a harmless question or pay her a complement... would that make it any different. I agree with threeboysmom.... a lot has to do with where and what the person looks like that's asking.

That's how I feel. A guy in my office building asks me how I'm doing and then the conversation turns to what company I work for etc is mot threatening at all. If a gentleman says hello and then says something because perhaps I ignore it or I responds and it opens it up to nasty comments then it is wrong. The problem in big cities is it is sometimes hard to know when it is a simple polite hello and when it is something more. I usually gage it based off the tone of their voice.

 

[snapppyd]

Has anyone on this thread even implied the bolded much less said it?

People on this thread have dismissed the feelings of others. We all have a level of common sense, if my neighbor says hello i'm not going to freak out. If a strange man on the subway starts looking me up and down says hello that is a different story. Just the fact that you are questioning my reaction proves my point. I've experienced these things, have you?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Desired by both men and women - a true Adonis. And a legend in your own mind.

Oh please. My boss doesn't tell me to smile because he desires me. He says it because I'm not smiling, end of story. I certainly don't imagine myself as the object of every woman's desires. But I also didn't imagine any of thr random women who've pinched my rear, grabbed my crotch, put an arm around me, flashed me on the highway, or made lewd comments directed at me over the years (among other things). And I darn sure didn't imagine the gal who threw an absolute hissy fit when I attempted to decline a dance, not her making a giant scene in the parking lot 2 hours later. I'm short, not particularly good looking, and I don't dress well. And for 20 years or so, I've carried too much weight. I'm sure better looking guys get it even more than I.



Is it different? Of course. As a guy, it doesn't make me feel vulnerable to have someone much smaller (and sometimes not LOL) doing this.

But the notion that women never do this is just plain false. So false, it's laughable.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Yes, it would be unnerving if a strange woman started asking me all about my shoes in the middle of the street. I don't know who you are, I'm probably trying to get somewhere. That's just strange to happen.

This is totally strange to me.

So what I get from this is that strangers cannot say anything to anybody walking int he but city because they are busy and the person saying something is strange.

All I can say is that I don't live in a bubble. But apparently I am a country bumpkin who doesn't get what appropriate behavior is in the big city.

And no, that doesn't mean cat calling doesn't happen. But a post like this just indicates to me that apparently strangers can't talk to strangers at all. Nice perception of city life that conveys. I guess I prefer the south where a hello or A nice shoes comment would not be perceived as rude.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was having a conversation with my brother in law a few years ago on this topic and I told him that it is very sad that every woman has to look at any strange man approaching her as a potential rapist. He was very offended. He was more offended when I told him that that attitude just contributed to the situation because we know that too often, even the men we know well will laugh off the threat and tell us we are overreacting.

So--if you had a conversation with a person of color and said if as sad that you had to assume every person of color was a potential attacker, you would think that okay to say?

Of course men should be offended. They shouldn't laugh it off. They should call you out for such an ugly sexist thing to say.

It isn't an overreaction. It is wrong on your part to say such things.

 

[sam_gordon]

People on this thread have dismissed the feelings of others. We all have a level of common sense, if my neighbor says hello i'm not going to freak out. If a strange man on the subway starts looking me up and down says hello that is a different story. Just the fact that you are questioning my reaction proves my point. I've experienced these things, have you?

I never questioned your reaction. I questioned your claim that people are telling you you're imagining things or that it's your fault.

Personally, I don't think anyone has dismissed your feelings either. I'm sure there have been plenty of times you've been harassed. But I think it's sad you feel a simple "hello" from a stranger is harassment.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I personally have never done it (or had it done to me). BUT, if a stranger on the street SINCERELY told me "nice suit" or "you look nice (or good) today" (not saying "you look hot"), I would think that make me feel good. So by the same token, a similar compliment might give a woman a good feeling.

Please keep in mind, I'm not defending the comments said in the video OR saying pursuing anyone if there's no response.

I think it's a shame people are being encouraged on this thread to simply ignore other human beings. Heck, according to snapppyd, you shouldn't even say "hello" to someone. I think that's sad.

I agree with you 100%.

I don't see the reason to go about life that way. But to each his own.

 

[olwyngdh]

Oh please. My boss doesn't tell me to smile because he desires me. He says it because I'm not smiling, end of story. I certainly don't imagine myself as the object of every woman's desires. But I also didn't imagine any of thr random women who've pinched my rear, grabbed my crotch, put an arm around me, flashed me on the highway, or made lewd comments directed at me over the years (among other things). And I darn sure didn't imagine the gal who threw an absolute hissy fit when I attempted to decline a dance, not her making a giant scene in the parking lot 2 hours later. I'm short, not particularly good looking, and I don't dress well. And for 20 years or so, I've carried too much weight. I'm sure better looking guys get it even more than I.



Is it different? Of course. As a guy, it doesn't make me feel vulnerable to have someone much smaller (and sometimes not LOL) doing this.

But the notion that women never do this is just plain false. So false, it's laughable.

And it is wrong for women to do it to men also, even though a man may not feel threatened or vulnerable because of it. Objectifying anyone is wrong.

 

[olwyngdh]

So--if you had a conversation with a person of color and said if as sad that you had to assume every person of color was a potential attacker, you would think that okay to say?

Of course men should be offended. They shouldn't laugh it off. They should call you out for such an ugly sexist thing to say.

It isn't an overreaction. It is wrong on your part to say such things.

No it isn't wrong. It is reality. I am not anymore threatened by a male of color than i am a caucasian male. Color has *nothing* to do with it, gender does. When men take the responsibility to police their own behavior and that of their peers and put an end to rape culture, then things will change. Until then, a strange male to a woman who is alone has to be assessed as a threat. Most of the time, the threat assessment is low, but I would rather be situationally aware than raped.

And if men are offended, they should do something about it and not blow it off or dismiss it because by doing that give their unspoken approval to every male out there that catcalls, follows, or in any other way makes a woman feel unsafe.

 

[sam_gordon]

And if men are offended, they should do something about it and not blow it off or dismiss it because by doing that give their unspoken approval to every male out there that catcalls, follows, or in any other way makes a woman feel unsafe.

OK. Any suggestions on what I can do about it? I've already said I don't do "cat calls", none of my friends do (that I know of), so I can't reprimand them when they do. So what should men do?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

No it isn't wrong. It is reality. I am not anymore threatened by a male of color than i am a caucasian male. Color has *nothing* to do with it, gender does. When men take the responsibility to police their own behavior and that of their peers and put an end to rape culture, then things will change. Until then, a strange male to a woman who is alone has to be assessed as a threat. Most of the time, the threat assessment is low, but I would rather be situationally aware than raped.

And if men are offended, they should do something about it and not blow it off or dismiss it because by doing that give their unspoken approval to every male out there that catcalls, follows, or in any other way makes a woman feel unsafe.

It's not reality

To assume that 100% if the men you don't know is a potential rapist is no different than assuming that 100% of the black people you will encounter is a potential thug.

My husband is not responsible for the actions of any rapist any more than a person of color is responsible for a crime committed by someone of their same race.

He is no more responsible for your rape than your clothing is.

 

[Disney Doll]

I personally have never done it (or had it done to me). BUT, if a stranger on the street SINCERELY told me "nice suit" or "you look nice (or good) today" (not saying "you look hot"), I would think that make me feel good. So by the same token, a similar compliment might give a woman a good feeling.

Please keep in mind, I'm not defending the comments said in the video OR saying pursuing anyone if there's no response.

I think it's a shame people are being encouraged on this thread to simply ignore other human beings. Heck, according to snapppyd, you shouldn't even say "hello" to someone. I think that's sad.

With all due respect sam, most of us can tell the difference between someone saying "good morning" and someone who is trying to chat us up.

But in all honesty, if you're just trying to be friendly, why would you choose to say something to a woman and NOT to the guy walking behind her? Why wouldn't you want to be friendly to everyone and not just the woman?

You see, if I'm walking along in a friendly mood, I say hi to the men AND women I encounter.

So there's a little teeny part of me that thinks that you choose to just be friendly with the women you encounter on the off chance that one of them might, for some reason, respond to you in a more positive fashion. I'm guessing you're not interested in the men responding to you in a more positive fashion.

 

[okeydokey]

I think it's sad that women have to feel the need to protect themselves at all times "just in case". But look at what happens to women who are attacked. They are questioned about what they did to provoke the attack.

Did they walk by themselves? Did they talk to the man? Make eye contact? What were they wearing. What did they drink?

How many threads on this board have centered around how stupid some woman was that she did something to cause her attack. And then women are chastised for being suspicious of men. You can't win.