Vaccine- Autism link proven to be a FRAUD!

[tlbwriter]

Wether they want to admit it or not, I think parents who choose not to vaccinate ARE relying on herd immunity to keep thier chilren safe.

I think many parents don't even realize they're relying on herd immunity. They say things like "I don't know any kid who has died of the measles, but I know someone whose kid had a bad reaction to the MMR vaccine." Well, of course you don't know kids who have died of measles, because most kids are vaccinated. But if those vaccines went away, and suddenly you knew several children who died of measles (which used to be the norm - everyone would know someone who had died or lost a family member to a now-preventable disease), I think those parents would decide that vaccines aren't too risky after all. Today they don't have to make that decision because most children are spared the consequences of not vaccinating. Most. I wonder what the vaccination rate has to be in order to preserve herd immunity?

ETA... it also astonishes me that people will claim "vaccines are all about making money for the drug companies" and yet ignore the evidence that the man behind the MMR scare was clearly in it for something other than the public welfare...

 

[Hannathy]

ETA... it also astonishes me that people will claim "vaccines are all about making money for the drug companies" and yet ignore the evidence that the man behind the MMR scare was clearly in it for something other than the public welfare...

And also ignore the fact that so many companies have stopped making vaccines due to the un absorbable cost of insurance and lawsuits. They are loosing money making vaccines. If they were making money they wouldn't be stopping production!!!!

 

[jodifla]

I think many parents don't even realize they're relying on herd immunity. They say things like "I don't know any kid who has died of the measles, but I know someone whose kid had a bad reaction to the MMR vaccine." Well, of course you don't know kids who have died of measles, because most kids are vaccinated. But if those vaccines went away, and suddenly you knew several children who died of measles (which used to be the norm - everyone would know someone who had died or lost a family member to a now-preventable disease), I think those parents would decide that vaccines aren't too risky after all. Today they don't have to make that decision because most children are spared the consequences of not vaccinating. Most. I wonder what the vaccination rate has to be in order to preserve herd immunity?

ETA... it also astonishes me that people will claim "vaccines are all about making money for the drug companies" and yet ignore the evidence that the man behind the MMR scare was clearly in it for something other than the public welfare...

It depends on the disease, but I think under 80 percent and the disease has a chance to take hold in the population.

 

[Alice's Mommy]

A friend of mine has three children. Her oldest has a very severe case of autism (non-verbal, physical issues, etc). She is convinced he got it because of vaccines. Two years ago her two younger kids were given the autism diagnosis. Neither child had been vaccinated...at all! She STILL insists that the vaccines are responsible.

My nephew is autistic and my sister and mother quote Jenny McCarthy like she's some sort of expert. My mother saw a made for tv movie based on the life of some woman with autism (she's currently a bovine expert...cannot remember her name) and she thinks that this movie is the key to "curing" my nephew.

It amazes me how people take that info as gospel.

 

[Ava]

Very well put. We were discussing this yeaterday, and several people who remeber Polio were commenting on just that. Until you have lived it, you have NO comprehension of that kind of fear, and thanks to mass vaccination, we don't have to. Wether they want to admit it or not, I think parents who choose not to vaccinate ARE relying on herd immunity to keep thier chilren safe. iti s just the reality of the situation. Everyone around you is vaccianted, so you are less likely to get the disease. You can likely get away with not vaccianteing your child and not loose them to something preventable. I would be willing to lay bets that many would change their mind when faced with a massive measels or polio outbreak, which WOULD happen without mass vacciantion, make NO mistake.

We have friends (who live in CA) who are selectively vaccinating their DD. Polio is one of the ones they've chosen to skip, because they feel there is no risk of her contracting polio so they'd rather not risk any possible injury from the vaccine. Obviously they are relying on herd immunity to polio to protect their DD, even if they don't say it in so many words. A close friend of my father's had polio as a child. He lived, thankfully, but was permanently disabled from it. I would never take a chance of that happening to my DD if I could prevent it.

I also think a lot of choice to not vaccinate - and by this I mean those with no underlying medical issues or history spurring that choice - come from fear of the unknown. The fact is, we don't know for sure that vaccines don't contribute to the onset of autism in children. We also don't know for sure that they don't. We'll never know for sure because there are too many other factors involved to accurately test for it - the child's environment, diet, medical history, etc etc none of which we can control unless you get into some creepy X-Files-esque creation of identical test-subject children. So parents, like my friend, figure the degree of certainty that their child will not contract these diseases is higher than the degree of certainty they have that the vaccine will not cause their child harm.

 

[Ava]

My nephew is autistic and my sister and mother quote Jenny McCarthy like she's some sort of expert. My mother saw a made for tv movie based on the life of some woman with autism (she's currently a bovine expert...cannot remember her name) and she thinks that this movie is the key to "curing" my nephew.

Temple Grandin. I saw the movie as well and it's really quite good, although I don't see how it could be a key to "curing" anyone with autism.

 

[palavra]

I can not let this statement go..... I generally try to stay out of these cause I just end up getting points BUT this got to me so much.

Please go read a book on the development of the polio vaccine and Salk before making generalities like this. the idea that they put more research into the effects of vaccines before giving them in the past is laughable. They were desperate (something the current generation of parents who don't vaccinate truly do not understand) and they needed something and they did not have time to do the years and years of trials they do now , nor did the have the money hungry lawsuit happy lawyers and public they do now. Much of the Salk vaccine was tested on children without clear known results. The public who volunteered their children were very brave and willing to make a sacrifice for the general good which isn't there today. Of course if your child caught Polio it was very likely they could/would die.

It is very easy for the non vaccinaters to spout off things because they rely on the herd immunity and the excellent health care in the US. I'd like to see them feel the same way if they had to take their child to a 3rd world country with no herd immunity or decent health care and see if they feel the same way. Expose your child to rampant measles or whooping cough and see if your so called principals still stand.

I know we don't often agree, but you are absolutely correct here. I've lived in a third world African countries where children routinely die because of a lack of simple childhood vaccines that we are offered so easily here in America.

 

[robinb]

As a medical technologist at a small urban hospital, I have been following the story of Dr. Andrew Wakefield for years. This man published a paper in a medical journal (Lancet) that claimed to prove that their was a causative connective between the combination MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) and the onset of autism in young children, who until they received the vaccine had been developmentally normal.

The money that paid for the "research" (research is in quotations because it was doctored research) came from a company that wanted to manufacture the MMR vaccine as three individual vaccines for measles, mumps, and rubella. If Dr. Andrew Wakefield could convince parents that the combination vaccine (the MMR vaccine) was a medical threat to their children, he would stand to make a very large profit from the medical company manufacturing the individual vaccines as he was guaranteed a share of the profits.

When this was discovered, his article was retracted from the edition of lancet that it was published in, and 10 of the 13 co-authors removed their names from the article. He was then stripped of his license to practice medicine and he absconded to the United States, attempting to gain notoriety here (he has a new audience). In the meantime, the terrified and sometimes innocently ignorant parents of young children in Europe, stop vaccinating their children at all or at other than recommended time limits for measles, mumps and rubella.

My cousin is a social worker in London where breakouts of measles and mumps are now killing groups of young children. The scare has spread to the United States where parents have also stopped vaccinating their children for other important childhood disease. Haemophilus influenzae b (hib) is once again killing young children in the United States through meningitis.

Unfortunately, when parents don't understand the immunology involved behind vaccination, and they are given the choice as to whether to vaccinate or not, that leaves the rest of us hoping our children aren't affected by other people's choices. The ripple effect of Dr. Andrew Wakefield's actions has certainly been seen by the medical community and felt by the parents of children who are dying from eradicated disease. The resurgence of smallpox could be next...then we all suffer (not just the children).

What the common person fails to understand is that bacteria and viruses are not stagnant entities, they change genetically on a regular basis (the flu virus is a perfect example). If we can't get a handle on the things that have been eradicated for years, what happens when our compromised immune systems encounter the "superbugs" of the future. I am completely for a parents right to choose the best for their child, but when those choices are based on faulty reasoning, then I am heartbroken, as well as concerned for the rest of us and our children.

This is a really great post, but hard to read because it was all in one giant eye-crossing paragraph. I hope you don't mind that I broke it up a bit and made it easier to read.

My DD is older now and fully up to date with her vaccines, so unvaccinated kids do not have any effect on my family personally. But I think this issue is more than just me, me, me and more than just my family. If a parent or a family's choice to not vaccinate their children only effected their own children, I would have no problem with it. Knock yourself out, but don't come crying on the DIS when your kid gets sick. But with that choice they also jeopardize other people's children: kids who are too young to be vaccinated yet, those with religious objections, those with egg allergies or who have had previous adverse reactions.

 

[princessmom29]

This is a really great post, but hard to read because it was all in one giant eye-crossing paragraph. I hope you don't mind that I broke it up a bit and made it easier to read.

My DD is older now and fully up to date with her vaccines, so unvaccinated kids do not have any effect on my family personally. But I think this issue is more than just me, me, me and more than just my family. If a parent or a family's choice to not vaccinate their children only effected their own children, I would have no problem with it. Knock yourself out, but don't come crying on the DIS when your kid gets sick. But with that choice they also jeopardize other people's children: kids who are too young to be vaccinated yet, those with religious objections, those with egg allergies or who have had previous adverse reactions.

This is the crux of my problem with it as well. The actions of one parent puts another's child at risk. There is no way around that.

 

[Scurvy]

A friend of mine has three children. Her oldest has a very severe case of autism (non-verbal, physical issues, etc). She is convinced he got it because of vaccines. Two years ago her two younger kids were given the autism diagnosis. Neither child had been vaccinated...at all! She STILL insists that the vaccines are responsible.

I've known several "anti-vaccine" people, and they wouldn't have changed their minds in that situation, either. At this point, the original study has been proven to be fraudulent. 2/3 of this woman's children have Autism without having been vaccinated. And yet she still blames vaccinations? There's no logic there at all. It's a purely irrational, emotional belief that isn't based in science. I feel bad for the children of parents who feel that way, because they are the ones who are going to suffer. Well, and also any of the children who legitimately can't be vaccinated, who these unvaccinated children spread the illnesses to. I'm all for people making educated decisions and I believe some people have good - and logical - reason for skipping some vaccines, but for many anti-vaccination people the education seems to be quite lacking.

 

[clanmcculloch]

A friend of mine has three children. Her oldest has a very severe case of autism (non-verbal, physical issues, etc). She is convinced he got it because of vaccines. Two years ago her two younger kids were given the autism diagnosis. Neither child had been vaccinated...at all! She STILL insists that the vaccines are responsible.

My nephew is autistic and my sister and mother quote Jenny McCarthy like she's some sort of expert. My mother saw a made for tv movie based on the life of some woman with autism (she's currently a bovine expert...cannot remember her name) and she thinks that this movie is the key to "curing" my nephew.

It amazes me how people take that info as gospel.

The bovine expert is Temple Grandin. The movie was made by HBO. AMAZING movie and very inspirational for parents of kids with Asperger Syndrome. The message of the movie is basically that people on the spectrum have very different needs than our neuro-typical counterparts and that if we figure out how to meet those different needs and never put limitations on ourselves then we can accomplish anything. She was never cured and frankly if she had have been then she wouldn't have accomplished what she did. She really is an amazing woman. My 12yo and I watched the movie together (we both have Asperger Syndrome) and we were both really impressed and inspired by her. She really changed the way people look at autism.

We vaccinated our kids for everything that's been around for years. I don't feel confident that some of the newer vaccines for diseases that are not immediately life threatening have been fully understood for long-term effects. I also have to watch vaccines and boosters due to my kids having food allergies and I won't agree to boosters or vaccines containing thermosil. My kids are not only on the spectrum but also have health issues. If I had another child, I'd do a delayed schedule with less vaccines per appointment so the child's immune system can take its time with each one rather than overloading the system. We have autoimmune conditions in our family and I really don't want to risk immune system overload at any given time because IMO there's a risk of triggering autoimmune issues in our situation.

I can't speak for others but I KNOW that vaccines did NOT cause autism in my family. I'm 99.99% sure that not only am I autistic but so is my brother, my father and my paternal grandfather. In our family, it is entirely genetic (but so are the health issues so those could be contributing factors which is why I wouldn't want to risk triggering the health issues). Unless there are known health risks, I can't imagine not immunizing for at least the diseases that have high mortality rates.

 

[tlbwriter]

The fact is, we don't know for sure that vaccines don't contribute to the onset of autism in children. We also don't know for sure that they don't.

Are there other studies that link vaccines to autism? The one that started the trend has been debunked as fraud. Not just sloppy work, not just drawing the wrong conclusions or misinterpreting the data, not a judgment call, but FRAUD.

 

[brymolmom]

I also think a lot of choice to not vaccinate - and by this I mean those with no underlying medical issues or history spurring that choice - come from fear of the unknown. The fact is, we don't know for sure that vaccines don't contribute to the onset of autism in children. We also don't know for sure that they don't. We'll never know for sure because there are too many other factors involved to accurately test for it - the child's environment, diet, medical history, etc etc none of which we can control unless you get into some creepy X-Files-esque creation of identical test-subject children. So parents, like my friend, figure the degree of certainty that their child will not contract these diseases is higher than the degree of certainty they have that the vaccine will not cause their child harm.

True, for sure (the bolded), however using logic with no study actually showing any correlation, we don't know for a fact that ANYTHING doesn't contribute to the onset of autism. Without any scientific data that is NOT fraudulent, we could say that milk is just as likely to contribute or maybe oxygen.

 

[lucigo]

Temple Grandin. I saw the movie as well and it's really quite good, although I don't see how it could be a key to "curing" anyone with autism.

Temple Grandin does not claim to be cured. That said, I hope one day my son is as well spoken as she is!

 

[gina2000]

Having known 2 generations of TB in my immediate family, I'd never ignore the value of vaccination. We lined up at a local high school in the early sixties for vaccines. There had been too many deaths from now eradicated diseases.

I think many here have forgotten or have never known the fear of dying from an uncontrollable disease that spreads through classrooms, families, towns, like wildfire. It's more than scary....panic is an appropriate word. I just can't imagine ignoring the obvious. Vaccines have all but erased death for so many members of our society.

As far as adult vaccines not being "up to date", I have so many antibodies for measles and mumps in my system that a titer indicates that the absence of physical manifestation of the diseases indicates immunity.

 

[SueM in MN]

Temple Grandin does not claim to be cured. That said, I hope one day my son is as well spoken as she is!

Agree.
She does not claim to be cured and does feel that there is a very strong genetic component to autism.
I saw a recent interview with her where she said that the movie is about her in that time period and that she is much different now than she was then. She said that getting on appropriate anti-anxiety medications have made a huge difference in her ability to function.

She has done a lot of work explaining to people how her brain with autism works differently than the brains of people without autism. If you read any of her books, she makes it very clear that she is not ‘cured’, but has learned to get along in a world where most people do not think in the same way she does and don’t understand how she thinks. Her books are fascinating, but not really an easy read because she does get stuck on certain subjects and writes about them in very great detail (it sounds very much like talking to my nephew who has Asperger’s Syndrome when he is talking about something he is interested in).
Temple Grandin’s website is also very interesting.

 

[SusanWasHere]

WOW! I find so many of the posters in this thread EXTREMELY scary. If you don't have a child with autism and have never watched your child go from typical, talking, and sociable and then turn into a child completely introverted, self-injurious, and never wanting to be touched you should have NOTHING to say about the causes of autism.

I have worked with autistic children for almost 18 years. I have lived with these famlies, gone on vacations with them, had the children stay at my house, taught them, stood by their hospital beds, loved them, been 10000% a part of their lives. I have seen COUNTLESS videos of these amazing kids one day and then a video days later where they are completely different. This being after vaccines. I am not saying autism is caused by them - bc there are too many cases where it can easily be shown it's not. BUT years ago there was mercury in the vaccines and if you look at the symptoms of mercury poisoning - they are almost exactly the same as autism. Now most vaccines - if not all - no longer have mercury in them. Did anyone here with their "perfect snowflake child" even know that???

And Jenny McCarthy does not pretend to be an expert. She's not. But she told her doctor she wanted to space out the vaccines, he gave her son the shot with her still saying she didn't want it. He developed a high fever, seizures, and never recovered. This story has been told by millions of other parents. Are they all crazy?? Did you even see the pics of Jenny's son before and after??? He clearly had the "autism look" after. Not all children can take those cocktails - just like all people can't take penicillin. She has NEVER said don't vaccinate. She said to do your homework. So really people - before you jump all over anyone - walk one hour in their shoes.

I have worked with all populations of autistic individuals. Extremely severe to high functioning. My whole life has been dedicated to these kids, last year I won Teacher of the Year and couldn't have been prouder. You don't know what these families have gone through, the devastation this diagnosis can bring. I absolutely believe some of my kids were forever changed due to their vaccinations. I've seen the videos, the pictures, it's ALARMING. Don't sit behind your computer and act like you know everything about it bc of one news story. YOU DON'T!

Some of you are so unbelievably rude, it makes me realize why I would so much rather work with these kids and their families than the "cookie-cutter perfect ones that never make a mistake". How dare you take your judgement and act like these parents are crazy for talking about what they believe in. Be happy it isn't your child - but don't look down on those that are defending their own. Bc I'm sure you'd be the type to want the autistic kid out of your child's class if that child said boo to yours. How sad. And you should really wish you never have a child that others treat like that.

 

[Ava]

WOW! I find so many of the posters in this thread EXTREMELY scary. If you don't have a child with autism and have never watched your child go from typical, talking, and sociable and then turn into a child completely introverted, self-injurious, and never wanting to be touched you should have NOTHING to say about the causes of autism.

I have worked with autistic children for almost 18 years. I have lived with these famlies, gone on vacations with them, had the children stay at my house, taught them, stood by their hospital beds, loved them, been 10000% a part of their lives. I have seen COUNTLESS videos of these amazing kids one day and then a video days later where they are completely different. This being after vaccines. I am not saying autism is caused by them - bc there are too many cases where it can easily be shown it's not. BUT years ago there was mercury in the vaccines and if you look at the symptoms of mercury poisoning - they are almost exactly the same as autism. Now most vaccines - if not all - no longer have mercury in them. Did anyone here with their "perfect snowflake child" even know that???

And Jenny McCarthy does not pretend to be an expert. She's not. But she told her doctor she wanted to space out the vaccines, he gave her son the shot with her still saying she didn't want it. He developed a high fever, seizures, and never recovered. This story has been told by millions of other parents. Are they all crazy?? Did you even see the pics of Jenny's son before and after??? He clearly had the "autism look" after. Not all children can take those cocktails - just like all people can't take penicillin. She has NEVER said don't vaccinate. She said to do your homework. So really people - before you jump all over anyone - walk one hour in their shoes.

I have worked with all populations of autistic individuals. Extremely severe to high functioning. My whole life has been dedicated to these kids, last year I won Teacher of the Year and couldn't have been prouder. You don't know what these families have gone through, the devastation this diagnosis can bring. I absolutely believe some of my kids were forever changed due to their vaccinations. I've seen the videos, the pictures, it's ALARMING. Don't sit behind your computer and act like you know everything about it bc of one news story. YOU DON'T!

Some of you are so unbelievably rude, it makes me realize why I would so much rather work with these kids and their families than the "cookie-cutter perfect ones that never make a mistake". How dare you take your judgement and act like these parents are crazy for talking about what they believe in. Be happy it isn't your child - but don't look down on those that are defending their own. Bc I'm sure you'd be the type to want the autistic kid out of your child's class if that child said boo to yours. How sad. And you should really wish you never have a child that others treat like that.

I can't tell from your post who you find scary - the parents who do vaccinate, or the ones who don't. One paragraph makes me think you feel one way, then the next paragraph seems to say the opposite. So... who is scary?

 

[Scurvy]

WOW! I find so many of the posters in this thread EXTREMELY scary. If you don't have a child with autism and have never watched your child go from typical, talking, and sociable and then turn into a child completely introverted, self-injurious, and never wanting to be touched you should have NOTHING to say about the causes of autism.

What an odd thought. So in your opinion, only those who have a child with Autism should study the disease?

 

[MommyBell08]

Back to the OP, I really don't think its fair to say that because of one person lying to make money, the "Link of Vaccinations to Autism is FRAUD". Apparently THAT study is fraud, but that doesn't make the the whole idea that autism is linked to vaccinations false.