Third party commercial renters

[Sandisw]

All 3, but primarily the last two as I believe those are the most profitable and run afoul of the agreement most.

Well, the commission they make off owners who make a choice to use them to help them rent reservations, which are allowed, and I hope that DVC never takes away an owners right to find renters, including paying someone to help them, in anyway they see fit.

 

[Sandisw]

You know there have to be people who left working for DVC to do just this once they saw how easy it was to take advantage of.

Not addressed to me, but all of the above.

As I posted, an owner should have the right to find renters anyway they want and I would hope that owners who want to see DVC have stricter rules for when a membership becomes a commerical one, would never want DVC to dictate where one could find a renter, including paying someone a commision to do it.

Micromanagining rules will never come out on the side of the owner....

 

[tx911]

I know you didn’t ask me, but I think you are misunderstanding the 20 rental rule. I don’t think DVC ever said renting under 20 is ok, I think they said rentals are ok, but if you have a pattern, that is decided by the association, of commercial rental activity, you are in trouble. It could be 3 rentals, the 20 is just there as an additional “if you are a personal owner and have over 20, we are gonna inquire about all 20 previous also to make sure you aren’t a commercial renter”.

This might be crazy, but why couldn't DVC require each member to supply the names of all of the family members who might be using the membership points?

Then have a very limited number of reservations allowed that did not include one of those individuals, like maybe 2 or 3.

Having to name the individuals in advance would all but eliminate renting to strangers, while allowing 2 or 3 above and beyond that would still allow owners some renting opportunity.

 

[mistysue]

As I posted, an owner should have the right to find renters anyway they want and I would hope that owners who want to see DVC have stricter rules for when a membership becomes a commerical one, would never want DVC to dictate where one could find a renter, including paying someone a commision to do it.

Micromanagining rules will never come out on the side of the owner....

I thought you were just asking where they were making money. I see fees for helping someone randomly renting (not habitually as a business) are not "wrong" (I think it's easier to say it that way for understanding purposes) and should not have the same negative connotation as some guy eating up contracts for the sole purpose of renting them.

This might be crazy, but why couldn't DVC require each member to supply the names of all of the family members who might be using the membership points?

Then have a very limited number of reservations allowed that did not include one of those individuals, like maybe 2 or 3.

Having to name the individuals in advance would all but eliminate renting to strangers, while allowing 2 or 3 above and beyond that would still allow owners some renting opportunity.

eh, how often do we update family, kids grow up, people get married, divorced, etc

 

[Sandisw]

I know you didn’t ask me, but I think you are misunderstanding the 20 rental rule. I don’t think DVC ever said renting under 20 is ok, I think they said rentals are ok, but if you have a pattern, that is decided by the association, of commercial rental activity, you are in trouble. It could be 3 rentals, the 20 is just there as an additional “if you are a personal owner and have over 20, we are gonna inquire about all 20 previous also to make sure you aren’t a commercial renter”.

Actually, the way the rules were written it was implied that 20 was the threshold. The reason I say that is because, the review was triggered when you wanted to have more than 20 reservations....at the time, we were phone in only.

If, in the first 20, you could not satisfy them that all were for yourself or your friends/family...which meant there had to be at least one rental, then you would not be allowed to make that 21st reservation.

Once online booking began, and the membership was flagged for review, DVC would contact the owner if there were more than 20, and if they couldn't satisfy the first 20 reservations made were all for owners and family/friends, then DVC canceled the ones in excess of 20, as they believed that meet the threshold.

Since they didn't cancel any of the first 20, which we know, from the wording, had to have at least one (or more) rentals, or the ones above 20 would not have been canceled, they were defining the crossover at 21....so, if you had one, ten, or 20 rentals as your first 20, you would not be allowed to ever have more than 20, until all the rentals were gone, and this was applied against each membership, since reservations can only exist in an individual membership.

 

[tx911]

I thought you were just asking where they were making money. I see fees for helping someone randomly renting (not habitually as a business) are not "wrong" (I think it's easier to say it that way for understanding purposes) and should not have the same negative connotation as some guy eating up contracts for the sole purpose of renting them.

eh, how often do we update family, kids grow up, people get married, divorced, etc

They could simply allow an update at the beginning of each UY

 

[Chuck S]

, because individual owners aren't going to invest in writing bots to book rooms

I don't know, if I had a copy of the basic bot program and programming instructions, I'd probably do it just for fun, and use it whenever I really needed to walk reservations (which is EXTREMELY rare) When I was working, I wrote several of the scripts we used to pull and coordinate info from the company Dbase III files. Especially when I was moved from the sales floor to the accounting office. I hated trying to figure all the commissions and stuff for payroll without it. Sorry, couldn't resist.

The biggest problem for internet bots at least the early version I was familiar with, is that everytime there is any update to a webpage layout, or a browser update, you'd have to upgrade the bot script.

 

[mistysue]

They could simply allow an update at the beginning of each UY

I suppose that would only be mildly irritating, but the same people who currently justify operating full businesses of only renting would just update their family list to be all the people renting from them that year.

 

[tx911]

I suppose that would only be mildly irritating, but the same people who currently justify operating full businesses of only renting would just update their family list to be all the people renting from them that year.

No, because the list of names has to be provided at the beginning of the UY, and after that only if there are changes.

Because the names have to be known in advance, renting to strangers is not possible, except for the few exceptions permitted.

ETA: I believe the true intention of DVC is that these points be used either personally or for family, and no one else. But I think a few exceptions to this per year would still allow some renting to strangers to occur, just not to the point where it could be profitable.

 

[mistysue]

I don't know, if I had a copy of the basic bot program and programming instructions, I'd probably do it just for fun. When I was working, I wrote several of the scripts we used to pull and coordinate info from the company Dbase III files. Especially when I was moved from the sales floor to the accounting office. I hated trying to figure all the commissions and stuff for payroll without it. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I knew someone would come back with that.
I think you would agree that the question of someone using a bot for thousands of points is very different from the teeny teeny handful of owners who would actually come up with a working bot to get one personal reservation once a year, if that's what you would rather my post had said.

 

[mistysue]

No, because the list of names has to be provided at the beginning of the UY, and after that only if there are changes.

Because the names have to be known in advance, renting to strangers is not possible, except for the few exceptions permitted.

I book a room now for next March and rent it out. My UY is February. In February I tell them Mr. Rentalcustomer is my brother.

 

[dioxide45]

I would suspect that most third party broker rentals are just from small individual owners with small point values renting out their points through a broker. If someone is in the operation of running a commercial operation with points they own, I would think they aren't using a third party broker as doing it themselves would keep more money in their pocket.

DVC could easily institute criteria to monitor for spec rentals by looking at how many cancellations an owner has vs the number of total reservations confirmed and traveled. If there is a huge disparity in the number of cancellations it could mean someone is booking for spec and cancelling when they can't find a renter.

 

[tx911]

I book a room now for next March and rent it out. My UY is February. In February I tell them Mr. Rentalcustomer is my brother.

Then only allow updates every 2 years.

 

[Sandisw]

I suppose that would only be mildly irritating, but the same people who currently justify operating full businesses of only renting would just update their family list to be all the people renting from them that year.That is why there will never be any rule that DVC can make that won't be worked around. That is not saying that they can't update the rules, they can.

That is why there is never going to be a situation and set of rules that DVC comes up with that will be okay for all owners, or that people want find a way to get around, using technicalities.

With contracts, and the law, sometimes, technicalities can be frustrating.

 

[Chuck S]

I book a room now for next March and rent it out. My UY is February. In February I tell them Mr. Rentalcustomer is my brother.

That is exactly why I think the idea of a guest pass or registration wouldn't work at all.

 

[lowlight]

I would suspect that most third party broker rentals are just from small individual owners with small point values renting out their points through a broker. If someone is in the operation of running a commercial operation with points they own, I would think they aren't using a third party broker as doing it themselves would keep more money in their pocket.

DVC could easily institute criteria to monitor for spec rentals by looking at how many cancellations an owner has vs the number of total reservations confirmed and traveled. If there is a huge disparity in the number of cancellations it could mean someone is booking for spec and cancelling when they can't find a renter.

I’m not saying that large point owners are using third party brokers to rent for them, I’m saying they are one and the same entity.

 

[Sandisw]

I would suspect that most third party broker rentals are just from small individual owners with small point values renting out their points through a broker. If someone is in the operation of running a commercial operation with points they own, I would think they aren't using a third party broker as doing it themselves would keep more money in their pocket.

DVC could easily institute criteria to monitor for spec rentals by looking at how many cancellations an owner has vs the number of total reservations confirmed and traveled. If there is a huge disparity in the number of cancellations it could mean someone is booking for spec and cancelling when they can't find a renter.

I have recently read all three of my POS statements, plus the multi-site POS and I have found nothing in there that differentiates renting vs. spec renting, nor have I found anything that even seems like DVC can institute a rule to differentiate them.

If someone else sees something along those lines, it would be awesome to see it!!!

 

[Chuck S]

No, because the list of names has to be provided at the beginning of the UY, and after that only if there are changes.

Because the names have to be known in advance, renting to strangers is not possible, except for the few exceptions permitted.

ETA: I believe the true intention of DVC is that these points be used either personally or for family, and no one else. But I think a few exceptions to this per year would still allow some renting to strangers to occur, just not to the point where it could be profitable.

I don;t see how that would be feasible, if I understand what you'd want to do. Are you talking about giving DVC the names of all the people who may or may not be the primary on the reservation, or all we talking the names of all possible occupants of the room several months before any reservations are made? I mean, I always book my personal room way in advance, but if I have to add a room for someone it may be relatively last minute, if there is availability. Even then, for my personal room, the guests staying with me can change several times after the reservation is booked. And it is so easy to chane names in a room (except the primary) using the modification option on line.

And as you suggest, we wouldn't know the names of the of renters, whether changing names on a reservation, or reserving on demand as in a point rental, in advance...and since we absolutely have the right to rent, I don't see how that would work.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m not saying that large point owners are using third party brokers to rent for them, I’m saying they are one and the same entity.

Let's hope we get some clarity from DVC about the situation I brought up in terms of my memberships being owned by different owners, with me and DH on all of them but the kids only on one of the three.

How they answer will certainly give us some insight!

 

[tx911]

I don;t see how that would be feasible, if I understand what you'd want to do. Are you talking about giving DVC the names of all the people who may or may not be the primary on the reservation, or all we talking the names of all possible occupants of the room several months before any reservations are made...I mean, I always book my personal room way in advance, but if I have to add a room for someone it may be relatively last minute, if there is availability. Even then, for my personal room, the guests staying with me can change.

I'm not suggesting you'd need to provide the exact names for every guest in each room.
Just a list of all the names in your family, and then you are only allowed a few reservations in which at least one of those names is not on the booking.