The Running Thread--2024

[camaker]

Race Report - New River Marathon

I ran the New River Marathon in NC's Blue Ridge Mountains just outside of Boone this morning. Since MW, my training has been focused on both reestablishing my pace and dropping my weight back to an acceptable level. I've managed to lose 48 lbs since MW, so I'm calling that a success, if still a work in progress. Having already achieved another goal of establishing a new PoT in March, I was looking for a marathon to capitalize on all that training, and being just a 3h drive from home, this one fit the bill.

Scoping out the course map in advance, there were only 3 significant hills, despite the mountain setting, as the course is run largely along the banks of the New River in its valley. I didn't really have any solid goals going in, although I thought a 4:15-4:30 finish would be a good indication of pacing progress.

The race started under cloudy skies with just enough sun peeking through to give us a mile 1 rainbow. It was relatively cool, but the humidity was very high (Temp 65, Dew Point 65, 100% RH). The first half of the course consisted of two large, independent loops including the three major hills. I quickly found I had underestimated not only the scope of the hills, but also the fact that there were long stretches of mild, but significant uphill running between them. My pacing wasn't too bad as we finished the 2nd loop around mile 14, but my energy output was significantly higher than I had anticipated. The rain mostly held off through the first half of the race, limiting itself to mostly refreshing periods of misting.

As we entered the back half of the course, a 6 mile out and back, that changed and we had a steady rain from miles 15-19, or so. The rain was soaking and enough to cause ponding along the course. Worse, when it ended the sun came out and the asphalt roads engaged "broiler mode". The outbound portion was a slow, gentle downhill that left us with a much less gentle-feeling uphill return to the finish line. I started having trouble with my hip/IT band at that point, too. The race was run entirely on 2 lane country roads with significant camber and no shoulder. They were open to traffic during the race, which meant staying largely to the side. My "upslope" hip decided it had had enough and it was difficult to run through. I ended up coming in a bit slower than I'd hoped at 4:37:55, but I'm pleased with my effort and result.

This is easily the most scenic race I've run. The views of the New River and looking up and out across its valley were gorgeous. We ran by numerous Christmas tree farms that were beautiful and impressive on their own. Unfortunately, I don't run with my phone so I don't have any pictures. It wasn't a spectator friendly race, with moral support on the course being provided by horses, cows, and even a few alpacas! All in all a very enjoyable, well-run race. I'd consider running it again.

Thanks for reading! Now I just need this hip to settle down!

 

[GollyGadget]

Race Report - New River Marathon

I ran the New River Marathon in NC's Blue Ridge Mountains just outside of Boone this morning. Since MW, my training has been focused on both reestablishing my pace and dropping my weight back to an acceptable level. I've managed to lose 48 lbs since MW, so I'm calling that a success, if still a work in progress. Having already achieved another goal of establishing a new PoT in March, I was looking for a marathon to capitalize on all that training, and being just a 3h drive from home, this one fit the bill.

Scoping out the course map in advance, there were only 3 significant hills, despite the mountain setting, as the course is run largely along the banks of the New River in its valley. I didn't really have any solid goals going in, although I thought a 4:15-4:30 finish would be a good indication of pacing progress.

The race started under cloudy skies with just enough sun peeking through to give us a mile 1 rainbow. It was relatively cool, but the humidity was very high (Temp 65, Dew Point 65, 100% RH). The first half of the course consisted of two large, independent loops including the three major hills. I quickly found I had underestimated not only the scope of the hills, but also the fact that there were long stretches of mild, but significant uphill running between them. My pacing wasn't too bad as we finished the 2nd loop around mile 14, but my energy output was significantly higher than I had anticipated. The rain mostly held off through the first half of the race, limiting itself to mostly refreshing periods of misting.

As we entered the back half of the course, a 6 mile out and back, that changed and we had a steady rain from miles 15-19, or so. The rain was soaking and enough to cause ponding along the course. Worse, when it ended the sun came out and the asphalt roads engaged "broiler mode". The outbound portion was a slow, gentle downhill that left us with a much less gentle-feeling uphill return to the finish line. I started having trouble with my hip/IT band at that point, too. The race was run entirely on 2 lane country roads with significant camber and no shoulder. They were open to traffic during the race, which meant staying largely to the side. My "upslope" hip decided it had had enough and it was difficult to run through. I ended up coming in a bit slower than I'd hoped at 4:37:55, but I'm pleased with my effort and result.

This is easily the most scenic race I've run. The views of the New River and looking up and out across its valley were gorgeous. We ran by numerous Christmas tree farms that were beautiful and impressive on their own. Unfortunately, I don't run with my phone so I don't have any pictures. It wasn't a spectator friendly race, with moral support on the course being provided by horses, cows, and even a few alpacas! All in all a very enjoyable, well-run race. I'd consider running it again.

Thanks for reading! Now I just need this hip to settle down!

View attachment 861033

Congrats on finishing another marathon! My hip hurts just reading about it..

 

[Dopey 2020]

Need some advice if anyone here has dealt with something similar: so I've been ramping up training for NYC/Dopey, with a half also scheduled for this month, and I'll admit I've been kind of aggressive about my pace in all my runs. Felt like it was going well but recently I started dealing with soreness on the outer side of my right foot. Came to a head during a 10 mile run and was rough afterwards so I decided to stop for a few weeks and book a visit with an orthopedist.

In the meantime, looked up my symptoms and all signs pointed to something called peroneal tendonitis. Went to the doc and he didn't exactly confirm the diagnosis but checked out my foot and recommended a few strategies:

- New running shoes for pronators
- A boot for stretching my calf out
- Ice after every run

He also said that I could start running again immediately (at this point it was 12 days since my last run), which sort of surprised me. I haven't ordered any new shoes because I wanted to assess how it goes if I slow down and be smarter about increasing my pace. So I've gradually gotten back into it. Went for a few very light two mile runs, but yesterday it was raining over here so for the first time in awhile I ran on the treadmill in my apt building's gym, which happens to have a mirror wall! And so I decided that it might be a good idea to watch my stride as I run and that's where I noticed that my right foot kicks out a bit with each step I take, which doesn't seem good (left foot has no kick out). I'm guessing that's how I'm ending up with foot pain but wanted to ask if anyone has ideas on how to proceed with all of this in mind. Is this enough of an indication that I should be getting a different pair of shoes (looking at Hoka Arahi and Saucony Guide, currently use Hoka Cliftons)? Should I look at changing my stride somehow?

FWIW I have a follow-up appt with the ortho in two weeks, so I'll mention what I've found since the first appt. Not doing the half, I could probably leg it out but I don't want to risk another significant flare-up.

Certainly not an expert or a doctor but I will side with @Zutroy on this one just from personal experience.
I was told early on that I needed support shoes and said OK without listening to what my body had to say about it. Long story short, a lot of pain (including your diagnosis) and money later I am in neutral shoes that fit me comfortably and I am much happier for it. You may indeed need them but I would look at what you first thought closely - how long have you been running and how hard did you push in an effort to ramp it up? Did you have pain with neutral shoes before? I don’t want to contradict your Dr. but I would be careful about changing how you run if you got an overuse injury simply from overuse.
I would absolutely say that you can’t stretch your calf muscles enough, it is amazing how much they effect every part of your foot and shins, look at both achilles and soleus stretches

 

[Dopey 2020]

Congrats on finishing a tough race @camaker that sun can be unforgiving at times.
I’m toeing the line in about 45 minutes with a starting T&D of 101, 52 temp 49 dp. Supposed to stay cloudy, we’ll see if the wheels stay on or fly off in all directions soon enough

 

[fatmanatee]

Certainly not an expert or a doctor but I will side with @Zutroy on this one just from personal experience.
I was told early on that I needed support shoes and said OK without listening to what my body had to say about it. Long story short, a lot of pain (including your diagnosis) and money later I am in neutral shoes that fit me comfortably and I am much happier for it. You may indeed need them but I would look at what you first thought closely - how long have you been running and how hard did you push in an effort to ramp it up? Did you have pain with neutral shoes before? I don’t want to contradict your Dr. but I would be careful about changing how you run if you got an overuse injury simply from overuse.
I would absolutely say that you can’t stretch your calf muscles enough, it is amazing how much they effect every part of your foot and shins, look at both achilles and soleus stretches

Yeah that's fair. I've thought about how hard I've been pushing and I dunno... it didn't FEEL like I've been overdoing it but who knows. Honestly the big addition to my training has been trying to be more consistent with the weekday runs, it's by far my biggest issue in training: I absolutely make sure I get in my long runs, but I'm not a morning person so the weekday runs are dependent on how I'm feeling when I'm done with work and if I have any other plans. I thought there was a lot of room for improvement in my marathon time, particularly after faltering somewhat with the last two I ran. So I had been getting better about the short runs and when I get those runs in they're generally shorter than what's expected from a marathon plan.

TBH I was very close to just following the plan EXCEPT for the new shoes (I was not thrilled about the idea of having to spend more money on running shoes while the current pair was still in solid shape) until I saw how my leg was kicking out during the treadmill run. My foot also didn't feel great after it was done and I'm kinda worried about setbacks. Ended up trying Hoka Arahis and Saucony Guide and went with the Arahis, felt like a shoe that had less roll than the Cliftons, which I suspect is causing the kickout. I'm taking it very slowly though, only using the Arahis on short treadmill runs to see how it feels and if it helps with the kickouts.

 

[SarahDisney]

So here's a story that some of you might appreciate.

I did a treadmill run at Peloton Studio this morning with Jess King, and since my outfit was very black (I only have like 3 things that I can actually wear for in-studio classes because everything else is race shirts), I decided to put on my rose gold Sparkle Athletic skirt to add some color. So Jess walks into the studio, sees my skirt, and makes me get off the treadmill and do a lap around the room. I was both entertained and horrified.

The class itself was good but I felt a lot of pressure to live up to the sparkle skirt.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Need some advice if anyone here has dealt with something similar: so I've been ramping up training for NYC/Dopey, with a half also scheduled for this month, and I'll admit I've been kind of aggressive about my pace in all my runs. Felt like it was going well but recently I started dealing with soreness on the outer side of my right foot. Came to a head during a 10 mile run and was rough afterwards so I decided to stop for a few weeks and book a visit with an orthopedist.

In the meantime, looked up my symptoms and all signs pointed to something called peroneal tendonitis. Went to the doc and he didn't exactly confirm the diagnosis but checked out my foot and recommended a few strategies:

- New running shoes for pronators
- A boot for stretching my calf out
- Ice after every run

He also said that I could start running again immediately (at this point it was 12 days since my last run), which sort of surprised me. I haven't ordered any new shoes because I wanted to assess how it goes if I slow down and be smarter about increasing my pace. So I've gradually gotten back into it. Went for a few very light two mile runs, but yesterday it was raining over here so for the first time in awhile I ran on the treadmill in my apt building's gym, which happens to have a mirror wall! And so I decided that it might be a good idea to watch my stride as I run and that's where I noticed that my right foot kicks out a bit with each step I take, which doesn't seem good (left foot has no kick out). I'm guessing that's how I'm ending up with foot pain but wanted to ask if anyone has ideas on how to proceed with all of this in mind. Is this enough of an indication that I should be getting a different pair of shoes (looking at Hoka Arahi and Saucony Guide, currently use Hoka Cliftons)? Should I look at changing my stride somehow?

FWIW I have a follow-up appt with the ortho in two weeks, so I'll mention what I've found since the first appt. Not doing the half, I could probably leg it out but I don't want to risk another significant flare-up.

Do you normally run on the roads with a camber? Do you switch directions you run on the road? As a possibility, you're swinging out your foot subconsciously to compensate for the uneven running surface. It won't be as evident out on the roads, but is more evident on a treadmill with a flat surface.

 

[fatmanatee]

Do you normally run on the roads with a camber? Do you switch directions you run on the road? As a possibility, you're swinging out your foot subconsciously to compensate for the uneven running surface. It won't be as evident out on the roads, but is more evident on a treadmill with a flat surface.

Partially, and that was my initial thought as to what’s been going on. First half mile of my runs is on the sidewalk, and yeah it can be a bit uneven at times. After that it’s along the waterfront and much easier.

Once I started running again I changed my route and went in the opposite direction (towards a park), way less camber. Not sure how I’ll proceed once training picks up, my current long run route is really good in terms of water breaks, would have to figure out how to fuel if I continued the alternate route.

 

[PrincessV]

Need some advice if anyone here has dealt with something similar: so I've been ramping up training for NYC/Dopey, with a half also scheduled for this month, and I'll admit I've been kind of aggressive about my pace in all my runs. Felt like it was going well but recently I started dealing with soreness on the outer side of my right foot. Came to a head during a 10 mile run and was rough afterwards so I decided to stop for a few weeks and book a visit with an orthopedist.

In the meantime, looked up my symptoms and all signs pointed to something called peroneal tendonitis. Went to the doc and he didn't exactly confirm the diagnosis but checked out my foot and recommended a few strategies:

- New running shoes for pronators
- A boot for stretching my calf out
- Ice after every run

He also said that I could start running again immediately (at this point it was 12 days since my last run), which sort of surprised me. I haven't ordered any new shoes because I wanted to assess how it goes if I slow down and be smarter about increasing my pace. So I've gradually gotten back into it. Went for a few very light two mile runs, but yesterday it was raining over here so for the first time in awhile I ran on the treadmill in my apt building's gym, which happens to have a mirror wall! And so I decided that it might be a good idea to watch my stride as I run and that's where I noticed that my right foot kicks out a bit with each step I take, which doesn't seem good (left foot has no kick out). I'm guessing that's how I'm ending up with foot pain but wanted to ask if anyone has ideas on how to proceed with all of this in mind. Is this enough of an indication that I should be getting a different pair of shoes (looking at Hoka Arahi and Saucony Guide, currently use Hoka Cliftons)? Should I look at changing my stride somehow?

FWIW I have a follow-up appt with the ortho in two weeks, so I'll mention what I've found since the first appt. Not doing the half, I could probably leg it out but I don't want to risk another significant flare-up.

I’ll add my word of caution to the others: very few people actually need stability control shoes, and wearing them is exactly what CAUSED me to have issues with an already damaged peroneal tendon. Mine is full of scar tissue from a poorly healed injury 30+ years ago, and wearing the wrong shoes plus very cambered roads put too much strain on the tendon.

But it healed pretty quickly once I got out of the wrong shoes and rehabbed it with:

A night splint - just the basic one designed for plantar fasciitis. Annoying but super helpful!

KT tape - there’s a specific application for peroneal tendinitis and I found it VERY helpful

Stretch & strengthening exercises with a resistance band tied around a heavy piece of furniture. Google should point you in the right direction.

Like DB said, the camber must be respected! My roads and sidewalks are all very cambered, so I make sure I’m constantly changing it up so one side isn’t getting all of the strain.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Since it's getting warmer and related to this week's SAFD, what are your preferences for taking in extra salt in training/races? Salt tabs? Capsules? How much? How often? Tell me all the things

 

[SimbaMufasa321]

Big fan of salt tabs. I dont take them for shorter runs during the week but usually have a tab every 3-4 for long runs ( will up that if needed for heat/humidity). When I first tried them I thought they were sooo salty and tasted awful but it's funny how on long runs now I started to crave them! After long runs or hard run days with speed or hills Ill have the Huma electrolyte recovery drink.

 

[Dopey 2020]

Race Report: Steel Rail Marathon, Pittsfield MA, 5/19/24
I’ve run this twice before and there isn’t much different to say. It’s a small somewhat local to me race with about 600 runners between an 8K, half, and full. It’s run on an old rail trail that has been converted to a bike path with beautiful stretches through woods and past lakes. The support is fantastic with aid stations every 1.5-2 miles and local law enforcement stopping any and all traffic at the few road crossings. With one of the sponsors being Berkshire Brewing Co. the nice medal is paired with free parking lot beers, so why not run it?!
The day looked good with a starting temp of 52 and cloudy, though a bit humid with a dp of 49. The interesting part of the day is that I was going to see how my body would react to 2 ‘A’ race marathons 5 weeks apart. No need to wait, to quote Louis, my favorite alligator “it didn’t end well”

It wasn’t all bad, the wheels didn’t all come off and I gathered data for myself but I certainly took a beating. I started with my usual run 4, walk :30 and set out looking for a 3:30. At the half way I was a bit ahead at 1:42 and feeling good. I slowed on the only real hill from mile 14-16 to save energy and then went back to it. At 17 I was behind pace and starting to feel it, by 20 I was way off, falling behind my PR - curse that mental math, it’s the death of many races. At 22 it was a slog fest and I pushed for everything I had to save my sub 4 streak with a finish of 3:58. The finish line T&D was 119 with the sun poking out, not bad but maybe a factor, I think the big issue is I could use a bit more recovery time if I want to push endurance. Of course I’ll try again with two scheduled close together in the fall because, well because.
What I see from my last few is interesting

Dopey January at the half 1:45 finish 3:43
Newport April at the half 1:41 finish 3:41
Steel Rail May at the half 1:42 finish 3:58

The first two held pace until mile 20, today was mile 17
It would seem that 1, I am consistent with my pace to start 2, I can mathematically run a 3:30 3, I need someway to increase my endurance
Guess that means run more…


Sorry, no finish line photos, I didn’t carry my phone with me

And yes, not that I’ll use it but that is a fully functional bottle opener built in…

 

[Dopey 2020]

Since it's getting warmer and related to this week's SAFD, what are your preferences for taking in extra salt in training/races? Salt tabs? Capsules? How much? How often? Tell me all the things

Just found salt tabs two races ago and love them, started taking two between gels after mile 10 or so

 

[fatmanatee]

Since it's getting warmer and related to this week's SAFD, what are your preferences for taking in extra salt in training/races? Salt tabs? Capsules? How much? How often? Tell me all the things

I carry SaltStick chews, along with another type of fuel. I might be doing it too often but I basically flip between both, doing one of them every two miles. The chews are great, very easy to carry and they’re basically candy so it feels like a nice treat.

 

[MissLiss279]

Since it's getting warmer and related to this week's SAFD, what are your preferences for taking in extra salt in training/races? Salt tabs? Capsules? How much? How often? Tell me all the things

I use Salt Stick Electrolyte Capsules. I take one every hour.

 

[FFigawi]

Since it's getting warmer and related to this week's SAFD, what are your preferences for taking in extra salt in training/races? Salt tabs? Capsules? How much? How often? Tell me all the things

I use BASE salt when running and PH tabs while biking. My sweat test showed that I lose about 1150 mg/l. Couple that with my sweat loss of 1.6-1.8 l/hr, and I have to take in a lot of sodium during my races.

https://baseperformance.com/products/base-electrolyte-salt-4-vials
https://www.precisionhydration.com/eu/en/products/ph-1500-low-calorie-electrolyte-supplement/

 

[pluto377]

I take the Salt Stick Fast Chews and do one every mile. I find they really help me avoid headaches after running. I take them for any run over 3 miles. If I'm going long enough that I also need a gel (6 miles or more) then I skip the salt chew the miles I'm taking the gel.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Of course I’ll try again with two scheduled close together in the fall because, well because.
What I see from my last few is interesting

Dopey January at the half 1:45 finish 3:43
Newport April at the half 1:41 finish 3:41
Steel Rail May at the half 1:42 finish 3:58

The first two held pace until mile 20, today was mile 17
It would seem that 1, I am consistent with my pace to start 2, I can mathematically run a 3:30 3, I need someway to increase my endurance
Guess that means run more…

Congrats on the race and valuable data gathered!

Based on the 1:39:27 HM in your profile, I'd agree that you're within striking distance of the 3:30 M. The math places the probability at the following assuming equal conditions to the 1:39 HM:

6% chance of 3:27 or better
10% chance of 3:29 or better
25% chance of 3:33 or better
50% chance of 3:41 or better

At 1:41 pace, you were doing a 7:42 min/mile (assuming 26.22 miles) and at 1:42 a 7:47 min/mile. The goal 3:30 pace is 8:01 min/mile pace. A 1:39:27 HM fitness level puts a 7:42-7:47 min/mile effort around 25-30km race pace. That's 15.5-18.6 miles. So I think the explanation for the late slow down at 17-20 miles, is that the pace of 7:42-7:47 is very near your race level effort for those distances, and not for a marathon. There's a razor thin margin, and it would appear you've crossed it in these attempts. I'd suggest trying to stick much closer to that 7:55-8:05 pace over the 7:42-7:47 pace, and I have a feeling it'll make a big difference outside of any training changes. Granted, even under the best conditions, you'd still have about a 10% chance or better based on your current PRs as the 1:39 HM is the best race equivalent of the ones you have listed. My advice for the summer, try to get your 5k under 21 min. That'll push the sub 3:30 from a 10% chance to a 25% chance and much better odds when following a well designed training plan.

 

[Zutroy]

I’ve never taken salt supplements during a run, and I will have salt crystals form on my clothes after a sweaty run. With the high amounts of sodium in most diets, I can’t imagine the need to supplement. The only reason to do so would be to avoid hyponatremia, which is caused more by over-hydrating with water and disrupting your sodium levels, and this is really only a risk for runs over four hours.

Also, salt intake preventing muscle cramps is a myth that just won’t die. "It was also noted that there is no documented scientific evidence on the relationship between sodium and muscle cramps. Sodium seems to be one, but not the only, factor contributing to this situation" (https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/19/6/3651) . Obviously your body needs sodium to send electrical signals, but it also needs calcium, potassium, etc. Proper nutrition and hydration are more important than taking a salt tab.

 

[PrincessV]

ATTQOTD: I use Nuun before, during, and after all runs in the heat. And by “heat”, I mean FL’s “special” heat - my T+D was 168 at sunrise the last time I ran. I add gels every 45 mins on long runs for calories, but they also give an extra shot of electrolytes so I mix my Nuun a little weaker for those runs. I don’t like the taste of salt and cook 95% of what I eat from fresh foods without adding salt, so I’m chronically low in sodium intake - my doctor has to remind me every year to up my intake over summer. I’m pretty sure she doesn’t mean adding a small handful of potato chips at lunch, but it’s a nice treat lol!