The race to worthless

[bakerworld]

I missed that original post. CFW if in resale doesn’t have access to anything other than what’s in the trust. And so far only thing is trust is CFW

I was viewing all as a direct purchase. Guess I missed that part of the poll. I still think Vero & HH would lose value first - even by resale.

 

[disneylandtour]

Where did you get this info?

From talking to people who work at the front desk.

 

[gmi3804]

From talking to people who work at the front desk.

You mean those undertrained employees in ill-fitting uniforms who don't have the autonomy to Make Things Right? OK.

 

[disneylandtour]

You mean those undertrained employees in ill-fitting uniforms who don't have the autonomy to Make Things Right? OK.

Ask what occupancy rates are there. Some won’t tell you. Some will. But a lot of the longtime employees know because it directly affects how many hours they get. This is very different than asking a bus driver about the Reflections site. Occupancy rates are often used with hotel employees as an explanation for work schedule reduction and changes.

 

[gmi3804]

Ask what occupancy rates are there. Some won’t tell you. Some will. But a lot of the longtime employees know because it directly affects how many hours they get. This is very different than asking a bus driver about the Reflections site. Occupancy rates are often used with hotel employees as an explanation for work schedule reduction and changes.

In other words, there is an issue with keeping the rooms filled, and it varies, or else there wouldn't be any fluctuation in the number of employees needed.

 

[peder]

Negative, meaning pay someone to take it??
Pretty sure you just stop paying dues and Disney will handle that for you. lol

Won't Disney still come after you for the dues in court? In those situations, it might be better to sell your DVC contract with $2,000 dues for -$500.

If the mtc fees on the rental are $200, and the Disney rate is $500, you could sell the final year above $0 and the buyer would be on top.

Simple math.

Yes but if there are many many sellers and YOU need to get rid of your contract TODAY then logically you'll offer the lowest price you think will be accepted immediately.

The people in these situations aren't trying to make an optimal, long-term decision, they're trying to get out of a cash crunch ASAP.

 

[Jperiod]

I've owned timeshares for 25ish years. I believe HH and VB will keep a decent value because of the exchange network they're tied to and convenience of owning yourself, regardless of the rental prices. There are a ton of timeshares that rent for less than dues, but people buy them because of the benefits they receive with owning (myself included!). I'm not sure what the floor is, but I don't think anyone will have to worry about unloading their contracts at any point.

I'm not as confident about the cabins or riviera, but time will tell, especially if the product changes.

As for the rental prices, you all are renting your points WAY under value and can get more with a little research and effort.

 

[matt and beth]

Negative, meaning pay someone to take it??
Pretty sure you just stop paying dues and Disney will handle that for you. lol

Wondering how many people will walk out on the 2042s when it gets close? It may be overwhelming to WDW.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Wondering how many people will walk out on the 2042s when it gets close? It may be overwhelming to WDW.

But why would you do that when you can just go and enjoy the last few years?

 

[matt and beth]

But why would you do that when you can just go and enjoy the last few years?

It’s like breaking up with your mate before they can with you. A human nature thing

 

[Brian Noble]

Instead of professional, personalized service that used to be the norm

You go back farther than I do, so I will take your word for it. But I've never seen this. In my experience, Disney's resort staff has never been more than competent at doing the expected with a saccharine smile. Any of the better business-class brands (e.g. Westin) do better, and always have.

willing to take back any of their timeshare contracts that are up to date on payments

Note that only a few of those take it back at no cost to the owner. Some on those list charge the owner for the service. Others don't take back everything universally.

Won't Disney still come after you for the dues in court?

No. It's not worth the expense. Instead it is likely that they will sell the delinquent account at a discount to a debt collection company who will then hound you mercilessly in hopes of making back more than they spent.

 

[gmi3804]

You go back farther than I do, so I will take your word for it. But I've never seen this. In my experience, Disney's resort staff has never been more than competent at doing the expected with a saccharine smile. Any of the better business-class brands (e.g. Westin) do better, and always have.

Maybe I had lower standards back then (mid-'70s, early-'80s), but EVERYTHING at Disney Resorts was top-tier, from greetings, to cleanliness, to service to... you name it. There was a freakin' "topiary row" between MK and extending all the way to in front of CR, pretty much visible only from the monorail.

Now, I agree that hotel standards have generally increased overall in the intervening years (perhaps largely based on Disney's service and hospitality models, which used to be the subject of industry seminars everywhere), but if some magical switch could be thrown and Disney resorts instantly reverted back to their peak standards, the difference would be overwhelming.

 

[Chili327]

Won't Disney still come after you for the dues in court? In those situations, it might be better to sell your DVC contract with $2,000 dues for -$500.

Yes, I would think you’d be better off just surrendering it back, but they may not want to. I’m just thinking they wouldn’t want to try to sue for minimal amount, they’d just repo the contract… but I could be wrong.

 

[peder]

Yes, I would think you’d be better off just surrendering it back, but they may not want to. I’m just thinking they wouldn’t want to try to sue for minimal amount, they’d just repo the contract… but I could be wrong.

Fair enough. So in that case the value of the contracts would probably never approach zero, because the "walk-away" option would always be better. But prices could still fall to a few $ per point.

 

[Brian Noble]

The "walk away" option that is "default on dues and let Disney foreclose and/or run out the clock" could include a credit rating hit, and giving it away could be preferable to that.

 

[NVDISFamily]

Interesting topic. I put my vote in the something else category more as a vote that something can/will happen but I'm not sure. There are a few 2042 resorts I'm tracking/monitoring and would be willing to try and get a contract if the price/point/years ratio got in line. For example, right now BRV vs CCV, BRV doesn't make sense given the price of CCV but if BRV were to drop to a point where it made sense it would be a good value play to get more family into WL for our family reunions until 2042 and by then I should have enough time and resources to collect CCV points for the transition.

If the perfect VB contract with the points for a 3BR every few years came on the market I'd consider it but I'm also considering if we can just get one of those rooms in a higher point season at 7 months to experience it and be done with it.... Lots to consider.

 

[CastAStone]

There’s no formal program for that, but it appears from the OC database that Disney does occasionally accept surrenders.

It’s not clear under what circumstances they take them.

I should add that there are circumstances where DVC is forced legally to accept a surrender (e.g. owner dies, kids refuse to inherit the timeshare, it is surrendered to DVC) and it is possible that in fact none of the surrenders in the OC database are DVC simply accepting a surrender when asked.

There’s just nothing published on it at all.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

The "walk away" option that is "default on dues and let Disney foreclose and/or run out the clock" could include a credit rating hit, and giving it away could be preferable to that.

This is why I think a zero dollar contract sale is more than possible. If someone gets to the point they absolutely don't want it, don't need a trip, don't want to rent, and are afraid of defaulting and creditors going after them then I absolutely can see someone giving it away just to be rid of it.

 

[MartyParty]

I placed my vote for "something else". Hard to say exactly how it will pan out. First to see this I would think would be the 2042 resorts. DVD could opt to offer existing 2042 members an extension but given how OKW went not sure they'd go that route. Long term, I think DVD will let the less expensive DVC price points of VB and Hilton go (see the properties). That would course correct the some of the cheaper points outside the resorts being use at the resorts with Aulani being they exception.

Non the less, I'm hanging on to my points. Some but not all will outlive me anyways: 2057, 2060, 2066, 2074. Guessing the price of annual dues come 2050's will still be a lot cheaper than a Disney room hotel stay.

 

[disneylandtour]

DVD could opt to offer existing 2042 members an extension but given how OKW went not sure they'd go that route.

The 2042 departures is a LOT of regular guests for Disney World to lose, all at once. Clearly the OKW mess won't be repeated. But I see the possibility of Disney offering 2042 members a meaningful discount, maybe in the late 2030s or in 2040 to buy into a different resort, specifically a resort with some openings that will end to around 2060, give or take. So in terms of extending customers' connection with Disney, this would have the same effect as a paid extension, though contractually it would be something different. If you bought in to DVC in your mid-20s or early 30s during the original sale period of the 2042 properties, in 2042 you'd be mid-70s or early 80s. You could be in great health and have ten, fifteen or twenty more years to enjoy life. I think this, specifically, is the period of time Disney would want to recapture in terms of customer base. I doubt many in their 70s will buy a new 50 year contract. But they might buy one that last 15 or 20 years. There's a certain amount of direct availability in some 2042 properties now, so I'm guessing that there would be some meaningful availability in 2042 for the 2057, 2060, 2066 properties as well.