Stopped considering DVC this week. Anyone else?

[SL6827]

Nickel and diming is one thing, but their seemingly illegal actions here lately to make more money, that is the kicker to me.

 

[RoseGold]

Nickel and diming is one thing, but their seemingly illegal actions here lately to make more money, that is the kicker to me.

If I had known more about the OKW extension, I'm not sure I would have bought my first contract. Definitely made me view DVC differently. It also made me think differently about the future promises and future resorts.

I'm disappointed in the huge drop in service during Covid. I get people are working from home, but our dues barely dropped, and the management got paid the same. For months, it was nearly impossible to get any service, and even now, this is not Disney level service. We have such little accountability to all the dues we pay. When everything was working fine, this seemed OK, but right now, it's disappointing. No one even bothered to answer my very simple email.

 

[StraightToDumbo]

At that point it just made more sense to buy DVC, we loved going and loved being in the bubble, math be darned. I have no way to prove it, but I would venture to say a vast majority of DVC owners feel the same way.

See, you get it! It's an emotional use asset. Value is relative, and there is a lot of value in owning something with intangible qualities. On the flip side, calculating the true cost is also difficult. Disney, after all, doesn't sell things to make it cheaper for people. They do it to get more of your money over your lifetime.

 

[heynowirv]

So we are renting points for a grand villa BLT stay this November. We are very excited. We are able to get the whole family in there to celebrate a 70th birthday!

It got me thinking of looking into a DVC purchase.

Not after this week though. And it's not just DME and EMH. Those are just the continuation of cuts, not the end. Fast Pass is unlikely to return in it's previous form. It will most likely come back with some sort of paid option. Don't get me wrong, the previous version needed an overhaul, but it was free (sorry, not "free", but included in the cost of DVC).

I just don't want to lock into a lifetime of Disney trips at these high prices, not knowing what pluses or minuses are coming next.

Renting may cost more in the long run, but it seems like that is a much better option for us, with the future of the on-site benefits unknown.

The only thing I will add to that is the Fastpass system as it was, was available to anyone staying on property
,not just DVC,.

 

[DisneyMountainWoman]

This question is funny cause I am just purchased....

 

[RaymOOOnd]

For those amazed at DVC resale prices, we're in bubble psychology territory. Seems to some like money flows limitlessly and everything can only ever go up, up, up (bitcoin, tech stocks, etc). I think this is a national mentality which bleeds over into DVC prices. The hallmark is buying things at ever increasing prices in a manner increasingly detached from the product's actual value. Here we see prices rising despite more restrictions, benefits taken away and so on.

I for one will wait until saner times (unless of course they announce a yacht club DVC...)

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

For those amazed at DVC resale prices, we're in bubble psychology territory. Seems to some like money flows limitlessly and everything can only ever go up, up, up (bitcoin, tech stocks, etc). I think this is a national mentality which bleeds over into DVC prices. The hallmark is buying things at ever increasing prices in a manner increasingly detached from the product's actual value. Here we see prices rising despite more restrictions, benefits taken away and so on.

What is a deluxe hotel room worth? Answer that and you can backwards calculate the valuation pretty easily.

I would argue that the prices are still low once you figure out what DVC costs per night.

 

[4luv2cdisney]

What is a deluxe hotel room worth? Answer that and you can backwards calculate the valuation pretty easily.

I would argue that the prices are still low once you figure out what DVC costs per night.

I can't wrap my mind around what people are paying (cash) for DVC or even Disney Deluxe accommodations. It is not something I could have ever brought myself to spend. (Which is why we bought DVC.)

 

[heynowirv]

For those amazed at DVC resale prices, we're in bubble psychology territory. Seems to some like money flows limitlessly and everything can only ever go up, up, up (bitcoin, tech stocks, etc). I think this is a national mentality which bleeds over into DVC prices. The hallmark is buying things at ever increasing prices in a manner increasingly detached from the product's actual value. Here we see prices rising despite more restrictions, benefits taken away and so on.

I for one will wait until saner times (unless of course they announce a yacht club DVC...)

The only thing you are guaranteed is a room. All the perks can disappear at any given time.

 

[heynowirv]

I can't wrap my mind around what people are paying (cash) for DVC or even Disney Deluxe accommodations. It is not something I could have ever brought myself to spend. (Which is why we bought DVC.)

Eggsxatly.

 

[JakeAZ]

The only thing you are guaranteed is a room. All the perks can disappear at any given time.

I mean I guess that's technically true, but it's hard not to think a lot of the (former and soon to depart) benefits of staying on property (in addition to the other DVC benefits) are not factored into the price you're paying, no?

I haven't been on a sales presentation but I find it hard to believe (pre covid) that the agents just talked about the rooms and not what they "came with".

 

[RaymOOOnd]

The only thing you are guaranteed is a room. All the perks can disappear at any given time.

Technically true I guess. But the whole informal spirit of the thing had been about more, at least originally. The very name, a "club", lends itself to the idea that there's more to it than a hotel room.

As to what a deluxe room is worth, I feel there's no telling this reliably. The cash prices for villas are nuts because cash isn't the intended booking medium and they have so few of the rooms that enough people take the bait. The standard hotel rooms come better maintained with full service etc. It feels like too gross an estimate when people calculate DVC value based on the cost of either.

 

[RoseGold]

The cash prices for villas are nuts because cash isn't the intended booking medium and they have so few of the rooms that enough people take the bait. The standard hotel rooms come better maintained with full service etc. It feels like too gross an estimate when people calculate DVC value based on the cost of either.

I agree for, say RIV, which I doubt anyone has paid rack rate for. But Poly and VGF have buildings worth of comps that can and do sell out with insane cash prices. That's why I felt confident buying those resorts. I mean Poly is nice, but my October 2021 booking on a random weekday was 834/night.

 

[upritbass]

The hallmark is buying things at ever increasing prices in a manner increasingly detached from the product's actual value.

The value of anything is defined as the price that a willing buyer and a willing seller agree on. Therefore DVC properties are selling at their current actual value.

 

[Salf777]

I feel a DVC purchase has a different “cost” to everyone. I highlighted “cost” because cost is first of all relative to different people as far as what is a lot and what isn’t. Also for some it’s how do you put a “cost” the family memories made on trips. Also I have spoken to some who believe there is value in having a kitchen in a DVC room which saves on eating out. Does that factor into “cost”? We purchased, recently, because we live in south Florida and with these crazy times it’s comforting to know we can just drive to a world that offers so much as far as entertainment, dining, and fun and our room is paid for. It’s a comfort to know that we have a weeks vacation for the cost of our annual dues every year at worst case we have a vacation.
I too looked at all the spread sheets and “when my break even would be”and then someone said to me if it’s something you want, something you will enjoy, and something you can afford just buy it. If we took financial advising into every decision in our lives it would never make sense to go out to a fancy restaurant when you can get a steak or a bowl of pasta at a cheaper place or even cheaper make it at home?
i guess I’m saying in a long winded way as in my opinion there is value to the enjoyment the experience the family time and memories more than just the dollars and cents paid to Disney.
to some it’s worth it to others it’s not

 

[RaymOOOnd]

The value of anything is defined as the price that a willing buyer and a willing seller agree on. Therefore DVC properties are selling at their current actual value.

By that logic nothing could ever sell for more than it's worth. Not sure I agree but I understand the sentiment.

Also in this case the resale prices are hardly natural market prices. They're pushed up by ever-increasing (ridiculously increasing?) direct prices which make them look like (relative) bargains.

But yeah I think times are good and the DVC prices are a reflection of that.

 

[upritbass]

I didn’t just pull a rabbit out of the hat:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_market_value

 

[RaymOOOnd]

I didn’t just pull a rabbit out of the hat:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_market_value

Ah, I stand corrected. I should go then and spend the equivalent of a house downpayment on a BCV contract expiring in about 20 years. Other (infallible) people are spending that much on it so it's gotta be totally reasonable.

 

[Mkaiser1]

I can't wrap my mind around what people are paying (cash) for DVC or even Disney Deluxe accommodations. It is not something I could have ever brought myself to spend. (Which is why we bought DVC.)

I’ve done spreadsheet upon spreadsheet calculating costs, potential resale values and 1001 other things (as RoseGold will testify), but this point is pivotal and one of the main things deciding it for us. For us to come at Christmas and stay where we want to, in the room we want to for how long we want to is just not a figure I’m ever going to be willing to spend on a holiday alone. Even if we changed resort. But spending 4 times that pays for our points purchase. And yes there’s dues each year, but even after factoring those in, after 3 trips we’d have spent as much as we would on those cash prices I‘m unwilling to pay. But by joining, we’ll have decades more trips with only the dues costs each year.

As for the down payment on a house option that is mentioned sarchastically, I started a thread on exactly that not so long ago. It quickly helped me rule out The option of a holiday house.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Agree not a time to buy direct right now there are no perks.