Riviera Standard View Studios

[Sandisw]

I'm confused. I never said a resale owner was in a better position but was pointing out how they are in a worse position than direct RIV owners or O14 resale owners who have choices if they can not take advantage of the 7-11 month window.


Correct and the future the resale points will grow and the rooms will be tougher to book by the resale owners limited to one resort.


100% agree but it will also affect other RIV owners as they will now be under more pressure at 8 am to book at 11 months to grab the popular rooms.

Again, if you can’t book between 7 and 11 months, you don’t buy a restricted resort when you know you have no where to go.

Since the Resort view rooms already go fast, I predict that the impact of resale points will simply not have any real impact on how hard it is to get those rooms.

As both a direct and resale RIv owners, I book at 11 months because I want the best chance at those resort view rooms…but I certainly know I may not get them.

It still goes back that those who own RiV have the exact same point options beteeen 7 to 11 months.

I mean is it really any different than AKV owners who want CL or Value rooms? Or those at BWv that want BWV or Resoet view eooms? Or how about BLT resort view?

None of those have points that are restricted and yet competition during home resort is Triece.

Obviously a resale RIV owners who can be stuck with PV or larger rooms because they can’t trade st 7 months, but that is different than whether or not resale points will increase the demand for Resort view rooms and the point is those are already difficult.

All owners, no matter the resort, who have a specific need for a room or dates should be booking right at 11 months, regardless of resort.

That is really more my point

 

[Brian Noble]

I mean is it really any different than AKV owners who want CL or Value rooms? Or those at BWv that want BWV or Resoet view eooms? Or how about BLT resort view?

One difference is that SSR exists for the O14 resale owner, but not for the RIV resale owner. So the former still has a points-cheap way to stay, while the latter may not.

 

[eticketplease]

Again, if you can’t book between 7 and 11 months, you don’t buy a restricted resort when you know you have no where to go.

Since the Resort view rooms already go fast, I predict that the impact of resale points will simply not have any real impact on how hard it is to get those rooms.

As both a direct and resale RIv owners, I book at 11 months because I want the best chance at those resort view rooms…but I certainly know I may not get them.

It still goes back that those who own RiV have the exact same point options beteeen 7 to 11 months.

I mean is it really any different than AKV owners who want CL or Value rooms? Or those at BWv that want BWV or Resoet view eooms? Or how about BLT resort view?

None of those have points that are restricted and yet competition during home resort is Triece.

Obviously a resale RIV owners who can be stuck with PV or larger rooms because they can’t trade st 7 months, but that is different than whether or not resale points will increase the demand for Resort view rooms and the point is those are already difficult.

All owners, no matter the resort, who have a specific need for a room or dates should be booking right at 11 months, regardless of resort.

That is really more my point

Well you do list the options that are the most walked which is what I fear will happen more with the resale only owners....

And as @Brian Noble mentioned it is slightly different as those people can move if they can't get what they want where the RIV Resale owners are stuck.

 

[Brian Noble]

I will admit that I'm in the camp of: It's not a problem until it's a problem. I don't have to decide what to do about it unless and until it happens. That doesn't mean one can't take steps to hedge. However, if one wants RIV as a home resort, this isn't a compelling reason for me not to do that.

 

[sethschroeder]

I just want to say RIV needs to update their views because right now a Standard View has the best chance at Fireworks views at the resort. That needs to change.

They need to turn that corner facing the monorail/parking lot to a "Epcot View" and charge a premium. Then reposition the standard towards the far end of the parking lot and the location looking at CBR.

If I remember this happened at BW as well where they created the Boardwalk View later because they realized most wanted that. In this case the cheapest rooms are some of the best IMO.

 

[eticketplease]

I just want to say RIV needs to update their views because right now a Standard View has the best chance at Fireworks views at the resort. That needs to change.

They need to turn that corner facing the monorail/parking lot to a "Epcot View" and charge a premium. Then reposition the standard towards the far end of the parking lot and the location looking at CBR.

If I remember this happened at BW as well where they created the Boardwalk View later because they realized most wanted that. In this case the cheapest rooms are some of the best IMO.

The Boardwalk view & Pool/Garden are the same points They just separated it out to help owners get the boardwalk views. Similar to OKW having a "Near Hospitably House" booking category.

I wouldn't be opposed to that though as it would make the CBR/Pool area cheaper if they were able to have a third booking category that was actually for a different amount of points.

 

[ehh]

Well you do list the options that are the most walked which is what I fear will happen more with the resale only owners....

And as @Brian Noble mentioned it is slightly different as those people can move if they can't get what they want where the RIV Resale owners are stuck.

+1

What @T00dles was originally saying was that there's a 5th factor that I didn't include in my original post about why SV/RV has a demand imbalance: RIV resale owners skewing more aggressive with their booking because they have reduced alternative options if intended booking is unsuccessful.

Non-resale owners have all the alternative options available to them. I'm probably forgetting a few alternative options, but let's say the direct owners alternative options breakdown like this:

• X% walk next time
• Y% waitlist
• Z% stalk
• A% pick different dates
• B% pick different view category
• C% pick different room category
• D% rent swap
• E% just lose points
• N% wait until 7m and book a different resort

With resale owners, that N% don't have that option. So that cohort, however large it is, needs to be redistributed to the other alternative options. The only alternative option that results in them booking what they originally intended and minimizes leaving it to chance (such as waitlist and stalking) is walking. Ergo, booking pressure on the in-demand rooms increases.

I agree with @Brian Noble that it's not a problem until it's a problem (I think the problem is confirmed at some BWV and AKV rooms, for example). Unfortunately, we might not get clarity until closer to when the resort sells out and the available inventory :: sold inventory ratio is closer to 1:1. Right now there's more rooms available to book than have been sold by a decent margin (15-20%).

 

[kboo]

Even for the restricted resale Riviera owner, these are the options if you can't book what you want at the moment you are trying:

- waitlist
- stalk
- pick different dates/time of year
- rent out RIV points and use cash/rent other DVC points

@sethschroeder with as many rooms as Riviera has, I'm not sure 3 room categories is really going to help that much. The edge effect of highest floor standard view v. lowest floor theme park view is really rough (BLT owner here). People still compete for the standard views and request high floor, and then many posts here of "I thought 4th floor (or 5th floor) was standard not TP view - I booked TP view with all the extra points and the trees covered the view") (and similar complaints of tree/low view with "lake view" rooms there)

Yu don't hear these complaints about VGF over the winter holidays (Christmas/New Year break and Thanksgiving) - but my experience booking these times at both resorts is that VGF is harder. it's never not been a complete ***show trying to book at 8am during that time - between actual winter holiday bookers like me, and probably walkers for January - and again - with stalking and waitlisting, we've always managed to get what we wanted, when we wanted. Yes, it takes some diligence, but I fear that the cure will be worse. One year for Christmas break I had cobbled together 1-2 nights in each of: standard studio, preferred studio, standard 1br, standard 2br, and a grand villa, because for each night, those were the only units available. It did all work out, well before the 7mo window. So my points there were no different from "can't book elsewhere" because it was all resolved in the 7-11 mo window (as @Sandisw was saying)

 

[muppets3d]

I don't think anybody is arguing who's fault it is.

We are just pointing out that the resale restrictions at RIV will affect all RIV owners making it very competitive to get standard rooms as those with RIV Resale only owners only have one location to book, at RIV.

FUD.

 

[kboo]

@ehh - we cross-posted. I agree with you (and @Brian Noble) that the anxiety that one will fall into E% or N% is probably driving some walking. And the fear of falling into that group is far higher than the actual chance of falling into that group, with or without walking.

 

[eticketplease]

FUD.

?? I have no idea what that is.

I can only assume it is something derogatory and not needed here.

 

[Brian Noble]

FUD is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It dates back (at least) to the IBM organization in the 70s (I think). "No one is ever fired for buying IBM."

Unfortunately, we might not get clarity until closer to when the resort sells out and the available inventory :: sold inventory ratio is closer to 1:1. Right now there's more rooms available to book than have been sold by a decent margin (15-20%).

But we are also at a point where the resale points in circulation are negligible. And, I suspect that will remain true for a good many years, which means Riviera is no worse (or better) than other resorts with view/demand imbalances. And depending on the makeup of those resale buyers, it could still well not be a problem. For example, if a reasonable fraction of them are building larger portfolios for higher-end stays, then Doomsday doesn't happen.

This all feels like one of those things that everyone worries about, but doesn't happen.

I'm still in the camp that it all doesn't matter. Even if The Bad Thing happens, it will happen far enough down the road that most current RIV owners will be in a position to add on a little bit via resale and move up. And for direct owners, it literally doesn't matter.

 

[ehh]

But we are also at a point where the resale points in circulation are negligible. And, I suspect that will remain true for a good many years, which means Riviera is no worse (or better) than other resorts with view/demand imbalances. And depending on the makeup of those resale buyers, it could still well not be a problem. For example, if a reasonable fraction of them are building larger portfolios for higher-end stays, then Doomsday doesn't happen.

This all feels like one of those things that everyone worries about, but doesn't happen.

I'm still in the camp that it all doesn't matter. Even if The Bad Thing happens, it will happen far enough down the road that most current RIV owners will be in a position to add on a little bit via resale and move up. And for direct owners, it literally doesn't matter.

Ah, you mean that the resale owners specifically being a problem.

I think we (the general public) have no way to know which elements are driving the problem (though we sure do blame commercial renters at the other resorts...), so I'm generally talking about SV/RV Deluxe Studios going over the cliff and becoming broadly 'unbookable' without walking, with one of the elements being resale owners.

I think @kboo's right that the anxiety around it all is more likely to drive this situation than resale owners themselves, but resale owners being displaced from 'book somewhere else at 7m' will likely be a little bit more fuel to the vicious cycle, if it gets to that point.

 

[eticketplease]

FUD is Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. It dates back (at least) to the IBM organization in the 70s (I think). "No one is ever fired for buying IBM."

Thanks for clearing that up.

Apologies @muppets3d as I stated I had no clue what you were stating and assumed the worst.

 

[Brian Noble]

Ah, you mean that the resale owners specifically being a problem.

Yes. That's often thrown in as the reason why "It's a little hard now, but it will be impossible later."

Buying at any resort specifically for the lowest-point options is always worth thinking about carefully. The good news for direct RIV owners is that you can hedge this with a favorite week.

 

[muppets3d]

Thanks for clearing that up.

Apologies @muppets3d as I stated I had no clue what you were stating and assumed the worst.

The first two letters can throw you off if you’re unfamiliar with the term for sure lol

 

[DebbieB]

I was able to grab a standard view studio last minute last year when I changed my flight to the day before. I was able to see Epcot and MK fireworks.

I was booking the week of April 6 for this year at 7 months, 5 nights did pop up but I took Polynesian instead.

 

[Dobermanns]

I wonder how many resale RIV owners have RIV as their only home resort, and all points are resale only. Meaning that they are truly stuck at RIV.
I added on RIV points via resale, only because I already own at other resorts. I must say that so far I haven’t had to walk even for race weekends if I book right at 8am at 11 months. If I forget, then I can get a PV studio.

 

[tx911]

I wonder how many resale RIV owners have RIV as their only home resort, and all points are resale only. Meaning that they are truly stuck at RIV.
I added on RIV points via resale, only because I already own at other resorts. I must say that so far I haven’t had to walk even for race weekends if I book right at 8am at 11 months. If I forget, then I can get a PV studio.

There are worse places to be stuck, that's for sure!
Imagine the future days when most of the DVC properties are restricted. Idk what the resale market will look like at that point, but I can't imagine it will be good.

 

[eticketplease]

There are worse places to be stuck, that's for sure!
Imagine the future days when most of the DVC properties are restricted. Idk what the resale market will look like at that point, but I can't imagine it will be good.

Exactly.

That is why I cringe about CFW resale.

The cabins might be nice but families grow in number and in height. DS is already taller than me and I don't know how much longer the bunk beds would be an option if we owned there.