New DVC Member - Perspective of a Direct Buyer

[skier_pete]

I agree - even though I made it, that no analogy is perfect - but of course that's what an analogy is. You make an analogy to give someone an approximation of an unfamiliar topic with a familiar topic. DVC ownership/purchasing is extremely unique, it isn't even like other timeshares, so to someone that's new to it, it might be helpful for them to have an analogy.

In the end though - I think everyone agrees - do what works best for you. Myself, there is NO WAY on earth I would spend $168+ per point when I can spend $80 for the same product - with "the same product" being a room at WDW. We stayed at the Poly on our AKV and I loved the Poly a lot, it's probably my favorite resort, but the amount I like it more than AKV is probably on a scale of 1 to 10 and the Poly is a 10, AKV is a 9.4. And to me to go bring the Certainty of a 9.4 to a certainty of a 10 is not worth twice the price. (And it's even more than that, since the # of points for the Poly is 25-50% more than for AKV, so really Poly is 75% more expensive than AKV.

But to each his own. As I've said already, the OP has done a very reasoned and logical review, and decided what is best for him. That's really all any of us should hope that someone does. I much more worry about the people that post. "We bought DVC on a whim during our vacation, should we keep it? How's it work? Can I use my points anywhere?" This OP is certainly not that

 

[msjprincess]

My point wasn't that the car dealer wouldn't take my money. It was that I personally would not feel comfortable walking into a car dealer that sells the exact same car that I bought from a competitor.

I have 12 contracts. All bought direct. Just purchased 75 GFV points this week, direct. For me, and I understand the OP, direct is what I am most comfortable with.

Cheers!

Why?

 

[glencoe]

I bought direct my first time (150)...we researched knew the difference but we needed to get out points asap for a special trip that summer. We did not buy from a tour and "drinking the koolaid" but a year after our tour when the $ was available. We vacationed that summer using our direct points loved it and have since bought two more contracts resale (160 each). I think the direct vs resale is what ever works for the individual. I have yet to use any of the "extras" my blue card gets me but I don't regret buying direct. It is nice to know I have that cushion...looking ahead I really think they will move to a system where 50 pts or less direct will not get you the extras, I think they will require more direct. Just my thoughts!

 

[Littlelulu01]

A little affirmation for op: I saw a new listing for Vero Beach October uy 75 point contract with 2016 points forward. Listed at $79/point. I made an offer I felt reasonable for a 2042 off property resort. Broker called me to say they are accepting bids today and already have full price offer. So basically that contract will sell at listing price or higher, buyer will pay closing costs and mf’s on 2017 points at $8.11 per point and have the wait of a couple months before points are available to use. Not to mention the loss of any direct purchase benefits. So compared to a Vero Beach direct; the savings when factoring much lower direct closing costs and no mf’s on the 2016 points and 2017 mf’s prorated , the purchaser of this contract will save $1650 over direct. Compared to PVB or CCV the savings is $6225 but the CCV and PVB have twice the life, and lower mf’s not to mention a much higher resale price should you decide to sell in 10 years. The broker agreed that the contract is priced very high but in this market that’s the prices sellers are getting. In this case you are better off with the direct purchase. Enjoy your points.

 

[ELMC]

In the end though - I think everyone agrees - do what works best for you. Myself, there is NO WAY on earth I would spend $168+ per point when I can spend $80 for the same product - with "the same product" being a room at WDW.

This is the thinking that I can't get away from every time I consider buying direct at a new resort. A short time ago BLT was introduced at around $96 a point direct. Now direct prices are in the neighborhood of $170 a point. For me, that price increase has stripped all the value out of the product. When comparing to the two main alternatives, buying resale and renting, the value is not there for me.

Some people can assign a value to ownership, perks, benefits, satisfaction, convenience, all of those things. And for them that's what works. Personally I can't do it.

 

[kniquy]

though not much cheaper at the Poly)

I am a resale buyer but I can see your preference and happiness in buying direct. With just taking a quick glance at some poly resales out there you could have bought your size contract for ~$145 per point for the loaded contract you bought. With that being the comparable scenario based on what you spent you really only over paid (compared to resale) a little over $3K -- that is a significant savings but buying direct did save you the headache and stress of stalking the resale market for the perfect contract only to find out that there are many stripped contracts.

Hopefully the poly studios do work for your family. If you decided you want to add on down the road (that happens to many of us here) then at that point you may want to look at one of the less expensive resale resorts. People push resale because for the older resorts you have a considerable savings (being able to buy points good anywhere at 7 month) for 1/2 what you paid. What is setting off a chord with people here is that you noted wanting 1BR which poly doesn't have- you could have bought at many other resorts, which fit your room desires and have paid less. So at 7 months -- looking at an older resorts (even BLT and VGF) your expensive points are now equal to the points that others have bought at a resale resort for much less.

None of us here like to see people spend more than necessary -- that might be why you are getting a little flack. Now if you went in buying direct for say SSR or AKV at $140 a point when you can buy resale for $80 -- then that would have been a huge mistake.

In the end -- what matters is -- you could afford the contract paying cash, you are happy to be buying in and you will have many years of wonderful memories at WDW.

 

[ELMC]

A little affirmation for op: I saw a new listing for Vero Beach October uy 75 point contract with 2016 points forward. Listed at $79/point. I made an offer I felt reasonable for a 2042 off property resort. Broker called me to say they are accepting bids today and already have full price offer. So basically that contract will sell at listing price or higher, buyer will pay closing costs and mf’s on 2017 points at $8.11 per point and have the wait of a couple months before points are available to use. Not to mention the loss of any direct purchase benefits. So compared to a Vero Beach direct; the savings when factoring much lower direct closing costs and no mf’s on the 2016 points and 2017 mf’s prorated , the purchaser of this contract will save $1650 over direct. Compared to PVB or CCV the savings is $6225 but the CCV and PVB have twice the life, and lower mf’s not to mention a much higher resale price should you decide to sell in 10 years. The broker agreed that the contract is priced very high but in this market that’s the prices sellers are getting. In this case you are better off with the direct purchase. Enjoy your points.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, and even though we disagree I do not want the OP to feel badly either. But I do not think it is wise to use one outlying example as a justification for a position. This kind of seeking out of specific examples to confirm a position is not fair analysis in my mind. Equally, it's also not fair to find an outlying example to refute a position either. In post 67 I detailed a recent purchase that was very different from the one you described above. In this case my net purchase cost was $11 per point. But just as I wouldn't use that as justification for the position that the OP made a bad decision, I don't think it's fair to use your example to justify the position that he made a good one.

The OP did his homework. He trusted his instincts. He bought what he feels is right for him and his family, and he feels comfortable with the decision. That is the ground to stand on and whether I agree with it or not, it's pretty solid ground.

 

[msjprincess]

This is the thinking that I can't get away from every time I consider buying direct at a new resort. A short time ago BLT was introduced at around $96 a point direct. Now direct prices are in the neighborhood of $170 a point. For me, that price increase has stripped all the value out of the product. When comparing to the two main alternatives, buying resale and renting, the value is not there for me.

Some people can assign a value to ownership, perks, benefits, satisfaction, convenience, all of those things. And for them that's what works. Personally I can't do it.

Same here, I would rent before I paid those prices. It's not that I can't afford it. I just hate feeling like I overpaid for anything. I own at SSR, bought through resale. I paid about half the price of Poly direct. I'm using those points to stay at the Poly this summer.

 

[skier_pete]

This is the thinking that I can't get away from every time I consider buying direct at a new resort. A short time ago BLT was introduced at around $96 a point direct. Now direct prices are in the neighborhood of $170 a point. For me, that price increase has stripped all the value out of the product. When comparing to the two main alternatives, buying resale and renting, the value is not there for me.

Some people can assign a value to ownership, perks, benefits, satisfaction, convenience, all of those things. And for them that's what works. Personally I can't do it.

I am not sure where BLT was ever $96 direct - DIS info says it opened at $112 a point (with $5 incentive) in 2008. But your point is very solid - from 2008 to 2015 (that's less than 7 years) prices went from $112 a point to $165 a point. That's a 47% price increase in 7 years, or almost 7 % a year. From 2003 to 2008 prices went from $89 to $112 which was 25% increase in 5 years, only 5% per year. Since 2015 we've only gone from $165 to $176, a mere 6.6% in 2.5 years, or 3% a year, so a good indication that Disney has perhaps pushed the price too far.

What will be interesting is to see where the market will settle on the Poly (and even more so CCV). I think one of the greatest articles ever written on this is the DVC sales market, which puts the value of the different properties in perspective using years left, dues and average resale buy in price.

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resort-to-purchase-spring-2017/

Notice even at $145 a point, the Poly has a better value than say Vero Beach because of the years on the contract and the Dues. Vero is actually a terrible buy for exactly those reasons - it's cheap to buy in, but it'll actually cost you more in the long run.

I actually think once the Poly sells out, it will drop further in value, and you will see resales in the $120 - $130 range. The lack of 1 and 2 bedrooms and the expensive per night points will make it less desirable than say VGF and VGC, which are also selling around $145 per point.

 

[Littlelulu01]

The example I used was from a real situation as of today. The example of your VB loaded contract at a net price of $11/point is not available in the market today. I have made a few offers, even full price on VB that were not loaded like yours, and the contracts all had over full price offers on them. The resale market, even for off property 2042, has changed quite a bit recently. Today's resale market value is a good comparison to a direct purchase today - not the price of resale contracts last month or last year. Comparing the value of AKV fully loaded at $75 or VB fully loaded at $50 is not a fair comparison because both those prices are not what you can purchase for today on the resale market. A couple months ago those, while it took a little research to find, were reasonable resale prices to expect for a fully loaded contract. Today the spread between resale and direct, is not the savings it was. Still a savings resale over direct and certainly worth it for me to keep trying for a loaded VB, but I'm guessing odds are not in my favor to get one under $50 per point.

 

[pdude81]

I appreciate what you are trying to do, and even though we disagree I do not want the OP to feel badly either. But I do not think it is wise to use one outlying example as a justification for a position. This kind of seeking out of specific examples to confirm a position is not fair analysis in my mind. Equally, it's also not fair to find an outlying example to refute a position either. In post 67 I detailed a recent purchase that was very different from the one you described above. In this case my net purchase cost was $11 per point. But just as I wouldn't use that as justification for the position that the OP made a bad decision, I don't think it's fair to use your example to justify the position that he made a good one.

The OP did his homework. He trusted his instincts. He bought what he feels is right for him and his family, and he feels comfortable with the decision. That is the ground to stand on and whether I agree with it or not, it's pretty solid ground.

That story shows a particular situation to illustrate the overall trend that prices have shot up greatly in the past month or two and that due to low inventory and high list prices. It's an anecdotal story to get to the point that the broker said the current market supports prices that many think are not that much lower than the same contract direct. The support was based on the OP's stated objective of not wanting to have uncertainty in the purchase process to save a little bit of money, and even does indicate that more money would be saved if looking at a PVB contract via resale.

There are always deals to be had, especially if there might be a distressed seller out there with a higher point contract. But now in the spirit of unfair comparisons, saying that getting a loaded VB contract for $50 pp in the past few months is as relevant now as a very recent offer on one of the few non-stripped contracts available is a stretch. Sure there will be a time again where there are more contracts available and you're not fighting over the scraps of stripped contracts with every other person who wants in.... but that time is not now when the OP wants to buy and plan his next trip.

I figured eventually this thread would run it's course after everybody said their piece, but let us not forget that the purpose was for the OP to tell others that there are some people out there who decided to buy direct and are happy about it after running the numbers, despite the sea of recommendations for resale out there. I can see some probing questions after the initial post, but once you get beyond post #11 where he details his mindset and locks in the decision, it feels more like piling on than helping to me. It starts to remind me of my grandmother having informal competitions with friends over whose dress for the dance cost the least or had the highest percentage off. I don't have a problem if that makes any particular person happy, and I am not bagging on resale as a good option for many people, but if it doesn't fit in with the OP's decision engine right now then why contradict any information that does?

 

[disneynutz]

This is the thinking that I can't get away from every time I consider buying direct at a new resort. A short time ago BLT was introduced at around $96 a point direct. Now direct prices are in the neighborhood of $170 a point. For me, that price increase has stripped all the value out of the product. When comparing to the two main alternatives, buying resale and renting, the value is not there for me.

Some people can assign a value to ownership, perks, benefits, satisfaction, convenience, all of those things. And for them that's what works. Personally I can't do it.

We bought BLT early and the perk was a "discount" or a "free" 7 day cruise on DCL. We took the cruise.

Bill

 

[skier_pete]

I figured eventually this thread would run it's course after everybody said their piece, but let us not forget that the purpose was for the OP to tell others that there are some people out there who decided to buy direct and are happy about it after running the numbers, despite the sea of recommendations for resale out there. I can see some probing questions after the initial post, but once you get beyond post #11 where he details his mindset and locks in the decision, it feels more like piling on than helping to me. It starts to remind me of my grandmother having informal competitions with friends over whose dress for the dance cost the least or had the highest percentage off. I don't have a problem if that makes any particular person happy, and I am not bagging on resale as a good option for many people, but if it doesn't fit in with the OP's decision engine right now then why contradict any information that does?

As with many threads - it also looks like the OP may have abandoned the conversation - with the rest of us regulars going back and forth with advice. I however enjoy the conversation. As I said, my view I could never bring myself to buy direct, or at least not unless I had a lot more money than I currently do. And it's not because I couldn't afford it - more the value prospects not there. Of course, I would never pay deluxe hotel rates at Disney for the same reason - and lots of others do. Anyways, I still find it interesting to read others arguments for why direct suits them well.

 

[ELMC]

I am not sure where BLT was ever $96 direct - DIS info says it opened at $112 a point (with $5 incentive) in 2008.

Thank you for your respectful challenge of my numbers. Here is the info you're looking for:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...much-has-changed-in-7-years-at-bay-lake-tower

Here's a quote taken from the article: "One more thing that has changed in the last seven years: the price. When sales started, Bay Lake Tower’s base price was $112 a point. With discounts and special offers, it was quite possible to buy points direct from Disney for around $90 per point."

 

[skier_pete]

Thank you for your respectful challenge of my numbers. Here is the info you're looking for:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resort...much-has-changed-in-7-years-at-bay-lake-tower

Here's a quote taken from the article: "One more thing that has changed in the last seven years: the price. When sales started, Bay Lake Tower’s base price was $112 a point. With discounts and special offers, it was quite possible to buy points direct from Disney for around $90 per point."

Whew - I wasn't aware of DVC back then - but a $22 per point incentive seems pretty amazing.

 

[hcortesis]

My point wasn't that the car dealer wouldn't take my money. It was that I personally would not feel comfortable walking into a car dealer that sells the exact same car that I bought from a competitor.

I have 12 contracts. All bought direct. Just purchased 75 GFV points this week, direct. For me, and I understand the OP, direct is what I am most comfortable with.

Cheers!

Why?

Yah, I know eh? Sometimes I wonder myself. But I guess Disney has brainwashed me. I absolutely don't want any re-sale points in my account. Crazy? Probably!

 

[skier_pete]

One disadvantage of the direct buy only comes if you have to sell. I bought my AKV points 3 years ago at $74 a point. Could probably get $84 a point today. If I sold today, I actually took 5 Disney trips (Sept 2014, Aug 2015, Feb 2016, Oct 2016, Nov 2017) for about $1000 total out of pocket. If I had bought 160 points at the Poly in 2015 at $168 a point and sold them today for $145 a point - those trips would've cost me around $10,000. An economic downturn comes along and those resale values drop - that number becomes a LOT worse.

 

[chalee94]

Yah, I know eh? Sometimes I wonder myself. But I guess Disney has brainwashed me. I absolutely don't want any re-sale points in my account. Crazy? Probably!

Just remember that if your circumstances change and you need to sell, Disney won't talk to you and you'll have to be a part of that scary resale market after all...

As for me, I drove 20 miles to buy a car from a dealer in a nearby town but have no shame in taking it to the local dealer for servicing. If I want to waste $100 on a whim, I can afford it - some who make more than I do can waste $10,000 and not feel it. They can avoid the hassle and time consuming internet research to find a fair market price of a new Lexus and pay full sticker price to avoid the tedious "let me take that offer back to my manager" process. That's cool if that's you - but I think most of us would rather save thousands for a little extra hassle...

 

[nydisneydad]

Honestly I don't mind whatever direction the discussion goes. I certainly haven't abandoned it, and I'm following the back-and-forth with interest. I just don't feel the need to post too often... I have one very specific point of view, which may be comparable to some, but I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone of anything (other than that I'm good with my decision, and I think I've done that much at least.

I think the more information brought up, the better. Ultimately people can take their own individual needs and thoughts into account and make their decision accordingly.

Really the only thing I would feel compelled to refute at this point are blanket inflation amounts saying I paid $5k-$10k more for direct. There's a disparity for sure, but because I'm looking at Poly and not just any resort, it's not THAT big a disparity.

For some specific math, since we're talking numbers... The best *available* Poly contract I could find (without too many points, as 150 is way more than I want right now) was $19,200 ($149 per point, plus closing) for 125 points, with 60 remaining 2016 points (and all of 2017 & 2018). Compare that with 125 direct points -- $22,400 including closing, but there's a couple other numbers to take into account. Direct I'm paying with credit card, which means I'm saving over $400 in earned bonus points, and the not-fully-loaded contract is missing 60 points I'm already planning to use for a trip next year, so that's effectively costing me about $900 if I have to buy/rent the points. So what, on its face, is a $3,200 difference is more practically closer to $2,000. And it's for 5 more points than I intended to pay. Which, while nice and all, is more than I wanted right now. (For those keeping score, my earlier $1,500 approx. number was taking into account what I paid for my desired 120-point contract.)

Now of course, the math is quite different when you go to a different home resort, but as I've said, that's a whole separate discussion. I've already started planning my next three Disney trips through 2019 -- at least two of which will be at a Poly lake-view studio -- and as such I'm very glad to have it as my home, and to have the comfort and certainty (see a theme for me? ) of the 11-month booking window.

 

[msjprincess]

Yah, I know eh? Sometimes I wonder myself. But I guess Disney has brainwashed me. I absolutely don't want any re-sale points in my account. Crazy? Probably!

Sorry I was actually asking why you wouldn't go to a dealership with a car you bought somewhere else. I bolded it, but bold may not show up on all devices.