Needs of One vs. Needs of Many

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I am hoping that we can have this discussion without heated argument, feelings getting out of control, flaming ,etc.

This is something I have been thinking a lot about in light of recent discussions and personal experiences. I am in a Master's program for Sp.Ed and the topic for our graduate class on Thursday is full inclusion. I know this is a sensitive subject, but I think it is an important one.

I will be honest, after a horrible experience in a 9th grade Civics course, I did not believe that students with certain learning disabilities should be included in classrooms. (They literally dragged down the entire CWC class so by the end of the year we were handed the notes already written out because the CWC kids weren't taking notes because they knew they would get it anyway.) That experience is part of the reason I skipped the last three years of high school.

It is only since starting my Master's program that I have revised my opinion, but I still sometimes question its wisdom. At what point do you consider the needs of the group vs. the needs of the individual? Certainly inclusion teaches tolerance (we hope), and allows both disabled and non-disabled students to progress academically, but there are times when students are disruptive.

Case in point: I taught 6th grade reading for summer school. Next door in another class was a child with special needs. He literally would scream at the top of his lungs throughout the class. It was disruptive to my class, and I wasn't even in the same room! I can't imagine trying to teach with that going on every single day. I wonder how much content the other students got out of it. I do know this particular student and know what was being taught was not remotely on his level. I do want other kids to be comfortable around people with disabilities and treat them well, but at what point do you say enough is enough, the twenty other kids in the class aren't learning and clearly this is not an appropriate placement?

After a discussion here on the Dis where people talked about "those kids", I asked a professor how to respond to parents of non-disabled children who reject the idea of an inclusive setting. She said she has no sympathy or tolerance. I think that goes too far. After all, there are certainly valid concerns about how it will affect the class and the academics. My job is to not make light of their concerns, but to educate them on disability, and to maintain rigorous academic standards in my classroom.

I also see this issue when talking about "discrimination" of people with disabilities. On recent discussion about a family who as kicked off a flight, it was mentioned by several that airlines must cater to the needs of individuals with disabilities. I am glad that there are protections in place, but at what point do we say that your behavior (screaming, running around, etc.) infringes on the rights of everybody else to have a safe and comfortable flight? How do we weigh the needs of the many against the needs of the few? Where do we draw the line? I do not believe it is an all or nothing approach.

I am very interested in your perspective, and do request that this conversation remain civil.

 

[SereneOne]

???

My daughter is medically fragile, hence "disabled," so she should not be allowed to attend a "regular" school? My daughter is also cognitively advanced, so would that make people of average intelligence the disabled ones and they could not attend "regular" school? *sigh*

I do not know the answers, it seems like no matter what one does someone gets the bad end of the stick. Maybe a case by case basis? I know with my daughter that she graduated from the center she attends. My daughter has multiple physical defects that are repairable (she recently had an analplasty and they found she had Hirschsprung's disease, which was repaired by surgery, and she has heart surgery this Monday for a hole in her heart) but she gets sick easily because she can not breathe as deeply (missing and fused ribs) and misses school, on rare occasions ending up on oxygen and in the hospital. Now I know from experience from one of my son's getting Henoch while in middle school and missing months of school while he regained his health, they had a teacher come to the house once a week, to make sure he stayed on track with his classmates. So I do not see her holding back anyone because of this. Meghan's school is a special needs school and she is not getting her needs met cognitively. They are having someone from the school district evaluate her and advise placement, then we will work on her IEP.

Now, I am very new to this, do they not have an IEP for these children and if a child is "low functioning" (forgive me if that is inappropriate, I am new to having a child with special needs), are they not put in an alternate school? And alternatively, do they also not do this for children that are advanced, where they are in higher level classrooms and have extra projects? Personally, I do not know how teachers get anything taught with all they have to contend with.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I think that you misread my intention (based on the first paragraph). This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I am not saying that kids with special needs, even severe special needs should not be included at least part of the time. I talked about a previous experience as a way of clarifying my discussion.

In that classroom, not only were the student's needs not being met (the curriculum was completely inaccessible to him, his para did all the work), but he was a major disruption. This was a science class that dealt with very dangerous chemicals, and it was paramount that the students be able to hear the directions. Again, I'm not saying that he should not be included in that classroom, but at what point do we say that the needs of one student are clearly infringing on the needs of the group?

Yes, we have to do what is best for that individual child in the classroom, or that individual with the disability in society, but there are times when we must balance the needs of the individual with the disability against the needs of everybody else. So I am curious where people think that we should draw that line? This is by no means meant to be a thread bashing inclusion or people with disabilities. I focused on the school aspect because that is my main area of interest, but this is true for general society.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

So I do not see her holding back anyone because of this. Meghan's school is a special needs school and she is not getting her needs met cognitively. They are having someone from the school district evaluate her and advise placement, then we will work on her IEP.

Now, I am very new to this, do they not have an IEP for these children and if a child is "low functioning" (forgive me if that is inappropriate, I am new to having a child with special needs), are they not put in an alternate school? And alternatively, do they also not do this for children that are advanced, where they are in higher level classrooms and have extra projects? Personally, I do not know how teachers get anything taught with all they have to contend with.

Since this is new to you, I will try to help you. I am in a Master's program for Sp. Ed so this has been a lot of what we have talked about.

1.) Most of the kids referred to Sp.Ed have learning disabilities, that is how most states operate. If you daughter does not have learning or cognitive disabilities, in most states she would not qualify to have an IEP. Instead she will be considered "Other Health Impaired" under section 504 of the ADA and have a 504 plan which functions in a similar way but is focused on medical needs.
2.) Under IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act), a child is to be placed in the Least Restrictive Environment (LRE). LRE is typically seen as inclusion, but for some children that is actually more restrictive as they cannot function in that environment. Parents may choose to send the child to an alternative school, but school disctricts cannot force them to. Most of the time what the parents want, the parents get. If they want full inclusion, they get full inclusion. I know of two little girls with CP and other various physical impairments who also have severe cognitivie impairments. They are mainstreamed for small portions of the day with phenomenal paras. During gym, the other kids are wonderful. The practically fight over who gets to push them in their wheelchairs during laps. Most of the children that these discussions center around will have cognitive impairments that translate into disruptive behavioral issues.
3.) As far as children who are advanced or "gifted" ,no provision is made for them under NCLB. In fact, the state of Missouri cut gifted funding from 25 million to zero (yep, zero) in 06 because of funding issues. With the pressure on high stakes testing, gifted children who can pass the test are often allowed to fall by the wayside because teachers must focus on remediating those kids who have trouble. They are a chronically underserved population (one of the reasons I skipped high school.)
4.) An IEP spells out the abilities of the child and any accommodations needed. It must be followed. That IEP determines what kind of supports are available, and the exact number of minutes spent in Special and general education. The IEP focuses on that one child, so it is up to the teachers and paras to help that child function and not become a problem for the other children if there is a behavioral component. For children with severe behaviors, many schools have an EBD (Emotionally Behaviorally Disordered) room. The terms for EBD, alternately ED and BD keep changing as one goes in and out of vogue. These are for the most severe behavior problems, and self contained behavior rooms are a controversial topic in and of themselves.

I hope this helps! If you have any questsion about an IEP, 504 plan, or what to expect from the school while your daughter transitions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM. I'll be more than happy to help you. It is a challenging time and can be overwhelming for many parents. Good luck.

 

[SereneOne]

I think that you misread my intention (based on the first paragraph). This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. I am not saying that kids with special needs, even severe special needs should not be included at least part of the time. I talked about a previous experience as a way of clarifying my discussion.

In that classroom, not only were the student's needs not being met (the curriculum was completely inaccessible to him, his para did all the work), but he was a major disruption. This was a science class that dealt with very dangerous chemicals, and it was peramount (sp?) that the students be able to hear the directions. Again, I'm not saying that he should not be included in that classroom, but at what point do we say that the needs of one student are clearly infringing on the needs of the few?

Yes, we have to do what is best for that individual child in the classroom, or that individual with the disability in society, but there are times when we must balance the needs of the individual with the disability against the needs of everybody else. So I am curious where people think that we should draw that line? This is by no means meant to be a thread bashing inclusion or people with disabilities. I focused on the school aspect because that is my main area of interest, but this is true for general society.

My first part was basically thinking out loud about not allowing "disabled" in the classroom, not trying to accuse you or anything.

I worked one year as a TA with mentally and physically disabled adults, I could not see children with such severe issues being in a "regular" classroom. I had volunteered years ago with SO and it was always an incredible, uplifting experience. I am just now starting to delve into this issue, being that my daughter will be attending "regular" school. (My daughter attended the special school because of medically fragility however she qualified because she had PT, OT and ST, now it is just OT because of strength issues) I have assumed what I had experienced was everyone's experience, as in they tested my child, she was ahead cognitively, however she needed the PT, OT and ST (tube fed but she can eat by mouth and will eventually lose the tube), so they recommended the center she attends until "regular" school in Aug in which my understanding is she will still have OT and I do not know how they will address her tube feedings, I guess have a nurse do them, I will find out in the next month.
My other children are not special needs and the youngest will be 18 in October, I do not recall special needs children being a problem in the classroom and things must have really changed.

My thoughts, and hopefully this will be a really good discussion and we will all learn something, is that if both the needs of the class and the needs of the student with special needs or not being met, then it needs to be reevaluated and then addressed....easier said than done, I am sure. I think it should/would be a case by case basis, and there might need to be some giving on both sides...no easy answers on this one.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

You are right, the nurse will take care of the feedings (or should.) I would not be comfortable with a para doing it. I have worked with some amazing and some not so amazing paras. A para only has to have a HS diploma and no education in instruction or special needs. Frequently paras aren't even trained, so I would never allow one to tube feed a child.

OT will be provided in the school. Depending on the size, the school will either have one of their own or a person who contracts with various districts and travels around. That will be built into the day at a specific time. As I mentioned, students without cognitive impairments cannot be considered for Special Ed. (Technically ADHD does not qualify you even because it is not a learning disability). Instead, your daughter will probably be under a 504 plan as opposed to an IEP if they find no cognitive impairments, which it sounds like they won't.

 

[tw1nsmom]

Ok, I'll bite. First of all, I do think it's a little inflammatory to post this question/theory on a board that's meant to be supportive of people with disabilities as well as the families of people with disabilities. I'm pretty sure you're aware that your post will offend many on this board.

Of course there is a point that an inclusion placement is not the best choice for a child that's being disruptive and violent. Just as the general education classroom is not the right placement for the non-disabled child whose being disruptive and violent. Make no mistake, many of the most disruptive students that I've encountered are not special needs. However nobody talks about whether or not they should be in the class. Short of expulsion, there's no place for those students to go. When a special needs child is in the class, whether or not they've been disruptive at all, there's always some discussion about the appropriateness of the placement and how it's going to disrupt the education of "typical" children. No matter how well behaved the special needs child is, there are parents that will say that "those kids" don't belong in class with their kids.

I really don't see how your experience in your freshman high school civics class proves your point at all. If the material was presented and you took your notes, what concern of yours was it that the students with special needs had the notes given to them? As a future special education teacher you should know that their are many disabilities that make note taking difficult. You should also know that the point is to make sure the child with special needs learns as much of the material as they're capable of learning in whatever way they need it presented. It's kind of scary that, with your current level of training in your field, this is still bothering you at all.

Again, there are times an inclusion placement is not the best placement for the special needs child. However for many, most often their failure to thrive in the general education environment is directly linked to a lack of supports that were needed to make the situation successful. When their is a lack of supports it can often be traced back to an underlying feeling by some teachers and administrators that the special ed kids don't belong there in the first place.

For many years (and frankly it's ongoing), children who were put in a self-contained special education classroom were taught a substandard curriculum. The schools had/have extremely low expectations of them and consequently fail to even give them the opportunity to learn the more challenging material. Will every special needs child be able to learn all the material to the level that a non-disabled child learns it? No. However, they won't learn anything if the material isn't presented at all. In many self-contained classes the material just isn't presented.

My standards for my son are extremely high. I would hazard to say that other parents of special needs kids also have high expectations and standards for their kids. We do get tired of society being hyper focused on our children's behavior. They seem to hold them to a higher standard than they hold their own kids. If our kids misbehave, their right to participate in society is questioned. If a "typical" child misbehaves, a punishment is given out and the incident is forgiven and they move on.

In the thread that you mentioned about an autistic child and his mother being put off a plane because of their behavior, I do think you're referring to me when you say that some said that the airlines could use more training in dealing with children with autism. Wow, talk about picking and choosing to prove a point. I (and others), said repeatedly that the child needed to be removed and that the mother needed more time and experience in dealing with her son's needs before she tried to fly with him again. I did make it a point to say that IF (and I do know it's a big if) things happened at all like the mother said, then the flight attendants may have made things a little worse by how they handled things and that they could benefit from additional training. That's not exactly what you represented in your OP.

It really concerns me that you have these opinions as a new special education teacher. You should be concentrating on getting the training you need to make as many special needs children's experiences in the general education setting a success. When an individual child truly doesn't belong in an inclusion environment it needs to be seriously and thoroughly considered on a case-by-case basis. It shouldn't be colored by an educators pre-existing biases. If you're going into your career questioning whether or not they belong there at all, you may want to rethink your career choice. There are laws in place for a reason.

 

[SereneOne]

I think the example you gave of the kids wanting to help the children with CP by pushing them while doing their laps an example of good inclusion, both the challenged child and the "average" child got something out of the exchange and positive growth was made possible. How wonderful it would be if all the situations with these issues turned out so positive.

I do not think a child regardless of their disability or "lack" there of, should be allowed to interfere with the learning of many as a whole. However, I do feel there should be investigation in how to resolve the issue by other alternatives, before secularizing a child. It will be interesting later today when everyone is awake and responds.

I was up to do a last tube feeding, I am off to bed. Thank you for your dedication to those differently abled, and best of luck with your Master's program.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Ok, I'll bite. First of all, I do think it's a little inflammatory to post this question/theory on a board that's meant to be supportive of people with disabilities as well as the families of people with disabilities. I'm pretty sure you're aware that your post will offend many on this board.


I really don't see how your experience in your freshman high school civics class proves your point at all. If the material was presented and you took your notes, what concern of yours was it that the students with special needs had the notes given to them? As a future special education teacher you should know that their are many disabilities that make note taking difficult. You should also know that the point is to make sure the child with special needs learns as much of the material as they're capable of learning in whatever way they need it presented. It's kind of scary that, with your current level of training in your field, this is still bothering you at all.

I would like to again say that it is not my intent to offend, I support inclusion. I think as a general education teacher, it is my job to manage my classroom and include the student with disabilities. However, it has come up multiple times on threads here as well as elsewhere at what point you draw the line, and I think that is an important discussion to have.

I brought up the high school experience as an example of inclusion gone wrong. There were many problems in that classroom, the result being that literally the entire curriculum was dumbed down (there were many issues with inclusion in that district). It was not just affecting the students, the majority of which were diagnosed with ADHD which is a huge problem in that district, but the rest of the class as well. The class was supposed to 3/4 "average" and 1/4 "CWC" but was actually the opposite. The "average" kids were all honors students, and to have premade notes handed to everybody was frustrating. If it was just the students with special needs, I would have neither noticed nor cared. It was when the pace of the entire class was brought down that it affected me. That was just the tip of the iceberg.

That was my first experience with an inclusive setting and it was negative enough that I used to be against inclusion. Being in the program and the schools has changed my mind, I am now very supportive of inclusion. However, I pointed to that experience to show why I used to not be. I am not the only one who has had a bad experience, this is why many people are against inclusion, because of a bad personal experience. It can (like in my case) take years to remedy that and form a different conclusion.

Let's face it, every day we will be faced with people who ask what the rationale is. People who feel that including children with disabilities may at times disrupt the regular classroom,or the accommodations are no longer reasonable. Where is that line drawn?

We can certainly extend this beyond disability. What about modifying a curriculum for a gifted student who is bored? Accommodating religion when a parent doesn't think a particular book should be read? Teaching to multiple intelligences? I brought it up here because our discussion Thursday is focusing on inclusion and am interested in the perspective of parents with disabilities. I am curious if they have run into these situations, and what their opinions are.

I don't know how many ways to say that I really am not trying to be inflammatory, nor do I think anymore that inclusion is bad. But as a general education teacher I will be faced with these questions, and they are important ones. Every parent wants what is best for their child. I am interested in finding the balance in my classroom, and by extension, in society. FWIW, I have seen many circumstances where children could have (and should have) been included but weren't and felt that was absolutely wrong. I feel that children with disabilities are underserved in schools, and people with disabilities are underserved in society. There are still too many obstacles. I believe that it is discussions like this that can help clarify what should happen, and pave the way for future generations.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I want to give you some background real quick on where I am coming from. Maybe it will clarify things further:

I am getting a dual degree in special and elementary ed with a middle school language arts endorsement. I actually applied to the elementary as my primary, but switched it to special ed because of the program set up. I decided to go for a dual degree because I believe teachers are not given enough education on children with disabilities and often do not know how to appropriately accommodate. I have literally seen students put in the back of the classroom with a picture book because the teacher didn't know what to do. How is that inclusive?

I do not want to be that teacher. I want to be the teacher who can say, "send me all the kids in special ed. I know what the appropriate accommodations are so they can be successful in my classroom." I want to be the general education teacher who knows how to accommodate children with special needs and how to truly include them, not just relegate them to the fringes with a coloring page. Perhaps this will show that I do believe in inclusion and desire to do it right.

As a general education teacher, I know I will field some of these questions from parents. I tried talking to a professor about it, but she just said she had no sympathy for those parents and walked away. I want to be able to have buy in from all parents, if I dismiss their concerns, it reinforces that "us vs. them" mentality that we see so often. I want to be able to present it so that they not only understand, but are excited about it. It frustrates me to no end when we can't have an open and honest disucssion because it is not the pc discussion to have.

Thes are the issues facing not only education, but the real world. These are the questions that are being asked, and it seems like one of two things happens: 1.) We are scared to answer them and the questions die away unanswered or 2.) People misread intent and get defensive and it quickly devolves into a heated argument with no real discussion.

I thought about posting this on the community board, but given some very anti-disability comments there in the past, that did not seem like a good choice. It seemed there would be no productive discussion. In my time here, I have come to admire the folks on this board for their ability to be honest, and civil even when they disagree, and that is why I posted it here. That is what I am hoping for. An honest discussion that looks at this very difficult issue facing society. One in which assumptions are not made about a particular poster's biases or intents, but in which we can all benefit from thinking about this issue that it seems (to me) many people wonder about but few are brave enough to actually question it and hash out the issue.

 

[bookwormde]

Before I comment on the bigger inclusion issue is would like to comment on the issue of paraprofessional.

Yes you are correct; often paras are not adequately trained. This is not because they are not required to, but because there is not the commitment or understanding by the school to adhere to the requirements of IDEA and NCLB. This is one of the areas that parents are waking up to and writing into the IEPs

Now for inclusion; as with all things IDEA the core concept is what are the needs of the child for an appropriate education in accordance with his abilities. Inclusion is just a tool to help this occur.

The first issue you have to get past is that academics are the primary need for many disabled children. This is a very hard concept for educators who were only trained in academic delivery and academic success gauges to accept whole-heartedly.

While there are some conditions where inclusion does not work for the needs for the child (where the child needs a level of 1 on 1 instruction that I para cannot supply or where there has been a history of lack of support for non academic issues causing critical maladaptive behavioral events) the goal should always be the least restrictive environment which will meet the needs of the child.

Where you see most issues is in schools, which do not integrate and fully understand and fully support the non-academic needs of the child. The child who screams at the top of his lungs is a clear example of this. What part of the day and supports were directed at his non-academic needs (social skills, therapies related to his disability, were any sensory issues identified and addressed, was the instruction being given in the most appropriate format with adequate customized reports). Had he his disability been identified early and had he received the proper educational needs from the beginning. By your description it is clear that may if not most of these items were missing for this child.

From my view the difficulty with inclusion primarily come from the lack of a broad based IEP addressing the full spectrum of needs of the child and/or poor implementation of the same.

So while it is common to first say that this is an inappropriate placement, the first thing you need to do is look at the IEP and see if all the needs (both academic and non academic) are being addresses and effectively implemented. Only after this is studied and corrected can an effective decision be made on LRE and the appropriateness of the placement of the child.

Since this process is rarely followed to the needed extent the placement gets blamed rather than the fact that the IEP and its implementation are really the problem.

I will write more later but the above is a good starting point for you comments

bookworkde

 

[tw1nsmom]

I also want to comment on what you state is one of your purposes for this thread. You want to know what to say to the parents of the typical children in your classes when there are special needs kids in the same class.

I can tell you what to say....nothing.

You can legally say nothing. If you even acknowledge the fact that a child with special needs is present in your classroom, you will be breaking federal law. If a parent wants to come in and inform the class about his/her child's special needs, then that's ok, but you can't tell them anything. In fact some of the teachers on the DIS who post details about their students, even though they don't use names, are walking a mighty fine line.

 

[zachsmomie]

I also want to comment on what you state is one of your purposes for this thread. You want to know what to say to the parents of the typical children in your classes when there are special needs kids in the same class.

I can tell you what to say....nothing.

You can legally say nothing. If you even acknowledge the fact that a child with special needs is present in your classroom, you will be breaking federal law. If a parent wants to come in and inform the class about his/her child's special needs, then that's ok, but you can't tell them anything. In fact some of the teachers on the DIS who post details about their students, even though they don't use names, are walking a mighty fine line.

As a general ed kindergarten teacehr, I agree completely with you. I won't talk to ANYONE (grandparents, aunts, others) except parents about any child in my room. I don't have room volunteers for this very reason. I am very thankful for my full-time aide. If anyone other than a parent asks me about a child, I always say "she's doing great" or "He is such a neat kid" and nothing else.

I have only once had a parent question me about a special needs child in my room and I have had children who are "mainstreamed" part day into my room with the goal of full day, I've had children who have had feeding tubes, CP and other physical disabilties, ELL students and ED students. I simply assured them that their child was receiving everything they needed and if they had additional concerns they should feel free to discuss them with the administration. That was when I taught 3rd grade.

I believe it is my job as an educator to be an advocate for all children. I know that sounds idealistic but I believe it. Sometimes that means fighting hard to give a child a chance to be part of my classroom and sometimes that means fighting just as hard to get another placement for a child when I don't think their needs can be met in my room. I would think, not knowing more about the situation, if a child were screaming all day every day so loudly that another class could hear them, the teacher should be having administration/special education intervene to see what other resources this child needs. That could be placement, sensory issues, counseling, etc. Maybe they need another placement or maybe they need a pencil and their teacher isn't sensitive to how important that is for them. I don't know because I wasn't there.

 

[SueM in MN]

The problems I see (from our past experience with the school system) is that teachers/aides and others are often not given enough education and resources to deal with the situations that come up.
I also have seen that some of the laws put in place to 'protect' children with disabilities often take time away from the job of education. My DD's IEP had so many pages that it's a wonder anyone ever had time to read thru it to see what she needed. Also, time was wasted because it seemed like every year there was a new form that needed to be used for the IEP. So, instead of having time making sure it was meaningful, the teacher often had to waste time making sure the format complied with the 'flavor of the day' as far a forms were concerned.

 

[Schmeck]

I see one of the main problems of the current situation in schools is that it has come so far away from the academic experience, and now schools are being forced to raise everyone's kids. Why on earth are social skills an issue in schools? Isn't that the parents' responsibility? I've seen way too much time and money being spent on the things parents need to be responsible for.

Meeting the needs of an individual vs the group is always a balancing act - it can change each day, and every person in the group has a part in that balance. I can't give too many examples, out of confidentiality regulations, but generally speaking, the school I work for will bend over backwards to accommodate special education students who have problems handing a regular classroom setting. Sometimes the accommodations actually make the situation worse, as the students never get to learn how to behave properly or deal with things that stress them out. I'm the para-professional that deals with the balancing act - how much time can a student handle in the class, how much work is getting done, how much of a disruption is the student causing? It's a very difficult job, but very rewarding when there is a successful experience in class!

 

[Talking Hands]

You are right, the nurse will take care of the feedings (or should.) I would not be comfortable with a para doing it. I have worked with some amazing and some not so amazing paras. A para only has to have a HS diploma and no education in instruction or special needs. Frequently paras aren't even trained, so I would never allow one to tube feed a child.

THis is not true in all school districts. In Miami-Dade County Public Schools a para must have a minimum of a AA or AS. Some have Bachelors degree but for personal reason prefer to work as a para. I have one friend who because of medical problems moved from being the teacher to classroom para. It was either that or retire. She is a one on one to a terrific kid.

 

[Talking Hands]

I think inclusion if used in the manner intended and not as an excuse to not provide Least Restrictive Enviroment is a wonderful thing. That said, inclusion is not always the least restrictive enviroment for a child. Inclusion needs to be decided on what will be best for the individual child. Reasons not to place a child in an inclusion setting would be isolation, severe disruptive behavior caused by over stimulation, profound or trainable students that need to be taught a different type of curriculm(life skills).
Even for these children I can see mainstreaming for some activities like PE, music, art, etc.
I think children need to be placed in the best enviroment for their individual needs both academically and socially.
That said, the #1 graduating student at our high school this year was severely physically handicapped with C/P and had been included in regular classes since elementary school with a fulltime para. He is going to Harvard this fall on a fulltime scholarship. Mentally he had no disability but physically his body just doesn't work. And yes he had an IEP not a 504 plan. Inclusion was right for him
In the past I worked with a child who was deaf/blind and autistic. Inclusion was not the least restrictive enviroment for him. He was finally sent to a special school in Mass from Fla because that school had a program specifically for children with his issues. He bloomed there. It was so successful that several teacher were sent to be trained there and there is now a program for these children in our county.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Before I comment on the bigger inclusion issue is would like to comment on the issue of paraprofessional.

Yes you are correct; often paras are not adequately trained. This is not because they are not required to, but because there is not the commitment or understanding by the school to adhere to the requirements of IDEA and NCLB. This is one of the areas that parents are waking up to and writing into the IEPs

Now for inclusion; as with all things IDEA the core concept is what are the needs of the child for an appropriate education in accordance with his abilities. Inclusion is just a tool to help this occur.

The first issue you have to get past is that academics are the primary need for many disabled children. This is a very hard concept for educators who were only trained in academic delivery and academic success gauges to accept whole-heartedly.
While there are some conditions where inclusion does not work for the needs for the child (where the child needs a level of 1 on 1 instruction that I para cannot supply or where there has been a history of lack of support for non academic issues causing critical maladaptive behavioral events) the goal should always be the least restrictive environment which will meet the needs of the child.

Where you see most issues is in schools, which do not integrate and fully understand and fully support the non-academic needs of the child. The child who screams at the top of his lungs is a clear example of this. What part of the day and supports were directed at his non-academic needs (social skills, therapies related to his disability, were any sensory issues identified and addressed, was the instruction being given in the most appropriate format with adequate customized reports). Had he his disability been identified early and had he received the proper educational needs from the beginning. By your description it is clear that may if not most of these items were missing for this child.

From my view the difficulty with inclusion primarily come from the lack of a broad based IEP addressing the full spectrum of needs of the child and/or poor implementation of the same.

So while it is common to first say that this is an inappropriate placement, the first thing you need to do is look at the IEP and see if all the needs (both academic and non academic) are being addresses and effectively implemented. Only after this is studied and corrected can an effective decision be made on LRE and the appropriateness of the placement of the child.

Since this process is rarely followed to the needed extent the placement gets blamed rather than the fact that the IEP and its implementation are really the problem.

I will write more later but the above is a good starting point for you comments

bookworkde

I am a bit confused by the bolded part and not understanding your point. Are you saying that academic needs should or should not be the primary focus? Are teachers too concerned, or not concerned enough with academics for the child with the disability?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

The problems I see (from our past experience with the school system) is that teachers/aides and others are often not given enough education and resources to deal with the situations that come up.
I also have seen that some of the laws put in place to 'protect' children with disabilities often take time away from the job of education. My DD's IEP had so many pages that it's a wonder anyone ever had time to read thru it to see what she needed. Also, time was wasted because it seemed like every year there was a new form that needed to be used for the IEP. So, instead of having time making sure it was meaningful, the teacher often had to waste time making sure the format complied with the 'flavor of the day' as far a forms were concerned.

You are right. In our state only one class on special ed is required for certification. I took the class in the summer, I was the only person in it who was actually studying Sp. Ed, the rest were general educators. The course was in the summer, so one semester was condensed into 5 weeks. One week was further lopped off of that, several days were cancelled, and we were frequently let out early. The prof made several comments about "I want to teach this but we don't have time". I remember thinking, "then teach the stinking class already!" I expressed my frustration to a couple of friends in the class and the majority felt that as general educators they didn't need that info, the special ed kids were not their responsibility. This was the only class they are going to have. They will be woefully unprepared for kids with special needs in their classroom. That is part of the reason I am a dual degree candidate, I do not feel like I would be prepared with just that one class.

At least in Missouri, they are talkin about changing that. There is one state we talked about where to be an elementary teacher you have to also be certified sp. ed for new teachers.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I see one of the main problems of the current situation in schools is that it has come so far away from the academic experience, and now schools are being forced to raise everyone's kids. Why on earth are social skills an issue in schools? Isn't that the parents' responsibility? I've seen way too much time and money being spent on the things parents need to be responsible for.

Meeting the needs of an individual vs the group is always a balancing act - it can change each day, and every person in the group has a part in that balance. I can't give too many examples, out of confidentiality regulations, but generally speaking, the school I work for will bend over backwards to accommodate special education students who have problems handing a regular classroom setting. Sometimes the accommodations actually make the situation worse, as the students never get to learn how to behave properly or deal with things that stress them out. I'm the para-professional that deals with the balancing act - how much time can a student handle in the class, how much work is getting done, how much of a disruption is the student causing? It's a very difficult job, but very rewarding when there is a successful experience in class!

The reason that social skills are taught is because some students need a systematic way of teaching those skills. I have seen flashcards of facial expressions used to teach children wtih Asperger's/autism about reading others' emotions. With some of the kids I've worked with, this was a need for them to function in society. There is only so much a parent can do at home. There is some amazing curriulum available from the CEC, and it would be very difficult for a parent to implement at home (although parents should certainly try to reinforce them at home).