need to vent, church related issues

[DisneylandFreak2013]

We stopped attending church when things became overtly political (leaning one way, even if I agreed with some of the views I don't want it in my face at church) and everyone thought they were better than a homeless family we brought with us from my son's class. No one would even stop and talk to them, so I guess if they're not good enough than neither are we.

Churches seem to lean too far in one direction or the other these days. It's really hard to find good fellowship, which is sad. I'm still a believer, just haven't attended services other than one Christmas Eve service in 10? maybe 12 years?

 

[SC Minnie]

We stopped attending church when things became overtly political (leaning one way, even if I agreed with some of the views I don't want it in my face at church) and everyone thought they were better than a homeless family we brought with us from my son's class. No one would even stop and talk to them, so I guess if they're not good enough than neither are we.

Churches seem to lean too far in one direction or the other these days. It's really hard to find good fellowship, which is sad. I'm still a believer, just haven't attended services other than one Christmas Eve service in 10? maybe 12 years?

Same for us. The pastor that was there when we started didn't push politics and was very open to everyone. He retired and the person that they replaced him with was extremely political. Those views were pushed down our throat every week and we got tired of it.

 

[rajak73]

Same for us. The pastor that was there when we started didn't push politics and was very open to everyone. He retired and the person that they replaced him with was extremely political. Those views were pushed down our throat every week and we got tired of it.

Same here, and the pastor was quick to inform you that he graduated from Oxford! The DS and family looked for another church, found one that was starting up, we went to a Xmas service, it was great, best Xmas service I had ever been too, the pastor put things in real life, not just reading. Also, the pastor wrote a book about his life before becoming a minister called, Move over Judas. It was really good, he was 5 years sober at age 19! Almost commited suicide. Turned his life around, We have 3 things to go by. Love God, Love yourself, Love your neighbor. Small congregation, anywhere from 50-75 people on a Sunday. Have people from ALL walks of life, everyone is treated the same. No Choir, No hymnals, just a guy playing a guitar and the words are put on a screen for everyone to sing. Streamed every Sunday at 10:30. Check it out sometime, Neighbors Church, Lincoln, NE eta: they won't tell you how much money they need either.

 

[momz]

There is a lot to plan when doing offsite events that would require Liability Insurance. VBS, Fishing trips, etc. All would require a lot of planning when offsite.

Every adult that helps with any of the children's activities should have a background check including Nexus Lexus, Federal and State.

I think that if you have such bad feelings about "the old farts" then it would you may want to change churches or your attitude and approach.

you are making assumptions that the church does not have liability insurance, and that we don't have our own access to fishing, and that I am ignorant that these things take planning. You clearly don't see that I am volunteering to do the planning and the footwork. I am not demanding that somebody else do it. The oldies don't want our church to do these things, and I cannot fathom why. your argument doesn't hold water because these hurdles have already been removed. Background checks are not that big of a deal, I have one every year (through the church) so that I am ready when called upon.

 

[momz]

I was never much of a volunteer past my early 30’s due to this and even when I was volunteering, I generally kept it to providing refreshments for something, a meal for someone in need, etc…

I’m astounded that anyone agrees to drive a van full of kids to camp or host youth overnights in their home. So much personal liability that I was unwilling to take on once I had the maturity to realize the risks. Over time I came to realize that it wasn’t true service anyway but more “blessing the blessed” at a Christian based club.

our church has a bus, it is insured as are the drivers. I would not host an overnight in my home, not comfortable with that at all.

 

[momz]

There is a lot to plan when doing offsite events that would require Liability Insurance. VBS, Fishing trips, etc. All would require a lot of planning when offsite.

Every adult that helps with any of the children's activities should have a background check including Nexus Lexus, Federal and State.

I think that if you have such bad feelings about "the old farts" then it would you may want to change churches or your attitude and approach.

I'm sorry, I have to reply to this again. you are telling me that my attitude, that is a willingness to serve, needs to change. So, I'm the problem....because I want to serve.

Discouraging people from participating and shaming them for wanting to change things is exactly why this church is dying.

 

[rigs32]

Why is recruiting people to come to church a bad thing?

Because no means no and should be respected.

For me, it started in elementary school. As the only Jew in my school, I didn't understand why I knew about Christmas but my classmates had no idea about my faith and holidays. Some of the anti-semetic things I heard on the school bus are wild when I think back. One of the worst offenders wanted to catch up during a reunion and had no idea that he'd ever done anything wrong towards me.

In high school came the youth group sneak attacks. Get invited to a Halloween party with a "haunted house" and it wasn't until we got there that I was told it was a church event and the haunted house scenes were all about how non-believers were going to hell. Most others after that I was able to sniff out in advance and pass on.

I now attend weddings and funerals in churches with a bit of trepidation. About half have been fine. The other half involved a sermon about how I'm going to hell and my loved ones are going to hell for not sharing in the same beliefs. I firmly believe that those types of events should be used to sell your organization, but in a positive way, not telling visitors how horrible they are.

I haven't been able to take the High Holidays off for years because I'm a government lawyer. Judges outright refuse to schedule around those days and the DEI department of the county I work for has given me the super unhelpful advice of just continue to ask nicely. But they also cancelled the menorah lighting ceremony this year even though we had about a dozen Christian focused caroling events in the county building as usual.

No, not all of this is outright recruitment. But when I am recruited or asked where I go to church or told to have a blessed day or am gaslit by fans of Christian rock bands that the bands aren't Christian based, it gets OLD.

I am genuinely frightened for my safety and the safety of my LGBTQ family should the Christian nationalists in politics get their way. Perhaps I will be lucky because I don't *look* Jewish. But do not tell me I'm overreacting when the number of anti-Semitic comments and attacks and pro-Nazi protests are increasing by a shocking amount in my community.

 

[Marrila]

I'm sorry, I have to reply to this again. you are telling me that my attitude, that is a willingness to serve, needs to change. So, I'm the problem....because I want to serve.

Discouraging people from participating and shaming them for wanting to change things is exactly why this church is dying.

I agree, feeling like you have no voice for any change is sad. Have you started thinking about when you might be ready to leave?

 

[karen4546]

I'm sorry, I have to reply to this again. you are telling me that my attitude, that is a willingness to serve, needs to change. So, I'm the problem....because I want to serve.

Discouraging people from participating and shaming them for wanting to change things is exactly why this church is dying.

I NEVER said that but you replying this comment says it all. take care.

 

[momz]

Same for us. The pastor that was there when we started didn't push politics and was very open to everyone. He retired and the person that they replaced him with was extremely political. Those views were pushed down our throat every week and we got tired of it.

I can't tolerate politics from the pulpit either. Christ loves all.

 

[karen4546]

you are making assumptions that the church does not have liability insurance, and that we don't have our own access to fishing, and that I am ignorant that these things take planning. You clearly don't see that I am volunteering to do the planning and the footwork. I am not demanding that somebody else do it. The oldies don't want our church to do these things, and I cannot fathom why. your argument doesn't hold water because these hurdles have already been removed. Background checks are not that big of a deal, I have one every year (through the church) so that I am ready when called upon.

I am not assuming anything. I said what is required. I do know that if your building is not permanent that there are many logistics to insurances.

Obviously, you are easily offended and it is your way or the highway. But, you really need to stop calling people names if you really want people to see your ideas about change. calling people "oldies" and "old farts" is not something I equate with someone with a servant's heart and YOU CLEARLY don't understand.

Maybe it would be a good idea to find ways to serve in another capacity - like maybe the elderly people?

I don't believe anyone here can change your heart or mind but hopefully you can stop getting ruffled up and see that no one is attacking you for wanting to serve.

 

[karen4546]

I can't tolerate politics from the pulpit either. Christ loves all.

yep

 

[momz]

I agree, feeling like you have no voice for any change is sad. Have you started thinking about when you might be ready to leave?

my husband and I have started this conversation. We are both feeling discouraged. We went to the worship team meeting last night. The conversation was about our upcoming move to the new building. Our worship space is much smaller than where we are currently, and can accommodate only 150 max. Our attendance last Sunday was 121. So, the issue at hand is whether or not we should have two services. Husband and I, along with the pastor and the worship leader and her husband are firmly on the side of 2 services. I argued that we need to be available to welcome and accommodate people from the community, but if we are having only 1 service, we will fill the space on day 1, newcomers may not feel comfortable feeling like sardines. Two others were passionately against 2 services. Their argument was that "nobody will want to be there that long", and that if the room gets crowded, people can stand. I countered their argument by saying there is no expectation that congregants attend both services. I mean many churches have several services and people don't go to all of them. Attending all of the weekend services is not normal, so I don't see where she's getting that idea. Also, the worship leader shared that because of the smaller space, she is slimming down the worship team and will need only 2 people singing per service. She said she has enough people on the team to keep the commitment down to 1 service per person per month. And, of course, it's also not a requirement.

There is so much stress in the congregation about this move to a new building. I am very surprised by the things people are upset about. None of the things people are up in arms about have anything at all to do with sharing our faith. So much negativity.

At last night's meeting, pastor finally said, "you have a choice to make, either this congregation will embrace change or it will die. maybe you that's what you want." It was good to hear him say that. It validates my feelings.

 

[momz]

I am not assuming anything. I said what is required. I do know that if your building is not permanent that there are many logistics to insurances.

Obviously, you are easily offended and it is your way or the highway. But, you really need to stop calling people names if you really want people to see your ideas about change. calling people "oldies" and "old farts" is not something I equate with someone with a servant's heart and YOU CLEARLY don't understand.

Maybe it would be a good idea to find ways to serve in another capacity - like maybe the elderly people?

I don't believe anyone here can change your heart or mind but hopefully you can stop getting ruffled up and see that no one is attacking you for wanting to serve.

again, you are making an assumption. I serve on the visiting team. I visit shut-ins every month. So... there's that, but this is "blessing the blessed", it is not serving anyone outside of ourselves.

"oldies" and "old farts" is referring to people who are so set in their ways that they are being an obstacle to others. There are people in our congregation who don't fit that description. But the oldies are very vocal, very persuasive and so unpleasant that it is impossible to get any new ideas past them. It is an attitude of "us four and no more" that permeates most of our service teams. once a team is made, newcomers are not welcomed and there is nowhere for them to serve.

I am not being attacked for wanting to serve. But i am being discouraged from serving. The arguments that you are making against my ideas are not legitimate. We are moving into our building in August. Our church has liability insurance, we have a church bus with insurance on the bus and the drivers, we have a stocked pond on our property. I see no legitimate reason why we could host the boy scouts, or alcoholics anonymous, or some other group. I see no legitimate reason why we cannot have a drive for feminine products...or some other need, I don't care...anything that serves people. Like someone mentioned up thread, we could host a corn hole tournament, or a neighborhood picnic, or we could have a children's "carnival" for one day instead of vbs (less work involved), heck, we could have day when we invite food trucks to the parking lot and our praise band playing for a time. Much of this is entertainment, but there are loads of ways we can meet needs as well. But alas, this would require people in the congregation to participate and at minimum to "allow" younger ones to do it without them.

 

[ShelbyWagon]

I'm sorry, I have to reply to this again. you are telling me that my attitude, that is a willingness to serve, needs to change. So, I'm the problem....because I want to serve.

Discouraging people from participating and shaming them for wanting to change things is exactly why this church is dying.

Even as a non-religious person, you are the kind of Christian I wish we had more of. You actually want to serve and better your community without being pushy about your faith. You embrace the "actions speak louder than words" mindset.

It sounds like the majority at your church has lost that mindset. They're happy to have their little Sunday social group where they know everybody and can pat themselves on the back for being a church-goer. I'm glad you've found another outlet for serving your community because it sounds like this group is more concerned maintaining the status quo instead of welcoming or helping people who might be "lower" than them.

 

[barkley]

Because no means no and should be respected.

For me, it started in elementary school. As the only Jew in my school, I didn't understand why I knew about Christmas but my classmates had no idea about my faith and holidays. Some of the anti-semetic things I heard on the school bus are wild when I think back. One of the worst offenders wanted to catch up during a reunion and had no idea that he'd ever done anything wrong towards me.

In high school came the youth group sneak attacks. Get invited to a Halloween party with a "haunted house" and it wasn't until we got there that I was told it was a church event and the haunted house scenes were all about how non-believers were going to hell. Most others after that I was able to sniff out in advance and pass on.

I now attend weddings and funerals in churches with a bit of trepidation. About half have been fine. The other half involved a sermon about how I'm going to hell and my loved ones are going to hell for not sharing in the same beliefs. I firmly believe that those types of events should be used to sell your organization, but in a positive way, not telling visitors how horrible they are.

I haven't been able to take the High Holidays off for years because I'm a government lawyer. Judges outright refuse to schedule around those days and the DEI department of the county I work for has given me the super unhelpful advice of just continue to ask nicely. But they also cancelled the menorah lighting ceremony this year even though we had about a dozen Christian focused caroling events in the county building as usual.

No, not all of this is outright recruitment. But when I am recruited or asked where I go to church or told to have a blessed day or am gaslit by fans of Christian rock bands that the bands aren't Christian based, it gets OLD.

I am genuinely frightened for my safety and the safety of my LGBTQ family should the Christian nationalists in politics get their way. Perhaps I will be lucky because I don't *look* Jewish. But do not tell me I'm overreacting when the number of anti-Semitic comments and attacks and pro-Nazi protests are increasing by a shocking amount in my community.

i am so sorry for your negative experiences, all of them.

it drove me MAD when i worked for county government and we would have periodic meetings about encouraging and celebrating all aspects of the diversity of our staff yet everything faith based always defaulted to discussions of christmas celebrations and how management needed to make sure to take into consideration that staff tended to take leave time around then so it was 'better' and 'supportive' to not schedule certain mandatory meetings and such. absolutely no regard or consideration given to the observations of others.

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

there are many that actively recruit via public events, some subtly while others are much more overt. putting a name on a sign in list absent an address or just identifying yourself by first and last name can result in a google search to locate your address/phone for subsequent mailers or calls to 'just let you know about our upcoming special event' (much more faith driven events though that's not disclosed with the invite). i have family and friends who belong to different denominations but both actively educate their membership on how to recruit new members and it is considered to be an important part of their faiths. at one point we began receiving a monthly magazine from one of these churches (family member subscribed us to it thinking it would convince us to join)-the number of articles with 'tips' and 'techniques' to engage friends, family, neighbors, your kid's friends (and by way of them-their parents)...in a manner to encourage their engagement and subsequent membership within that church affirmed to us that it was not what we sought.

I always find that there is a weird undercurrent in conversations at these type of events. Some interactions are genuine but some definitely seem forced and the person seems to just be digging for information they can use to recruit you. I prefer to just avoid the situation all together by attending secular events.

I can't tolerate politics from the pulpit either. Christ loves all.

Agree in principle but I also will say that I've seen times where people interpret a position the church has always held as being political. I remember a whole bunch of people getting upset that the Vatican opposed the Iraq war when it should be common sense that the Catholic church is not in favor of proactive war that will result in people being killed.

 

[JLTraveling]

As an ex-churchgoer who is still recovering from trauma suffered in the name of religion, I'll be perfectly honest that churches scare me. I go to events at St. Louis Cathedral because they do a great job of using it as a performance space and NOT proselytizing in any way, shape or form. And for a couple of years before moving I was a member of a VERY liberal Unitarian Universalist congregation that had a ton of families from all previous religious backgrounds (even hosted the bar mitzvah of a reform Jewish member of the congregation). But otherwise, I won't go near churches.

I think you're fighting a very uphill battle here. It sounds like your congregation are exactly the reason I won't go near a church--closed minded, set in their ways, and unwelcoming. And I'm sure they'd take one look at me and see either someone to be saved/converted/completely changed into something I'm not, or someone who's a hopelessly lost cause and should be shunned altogether. So I would either direct your efforts toward non-church related volunteer activities, or find a new church with a young and vibrant congregation that's actually walking the walk. Just my two cents.

 

[longboard55]

I can't tolerate politics from the pulpit either. Christ loves all.

We had a friend that said we should try his church. So the sermon was basically about why it is not fair to tax the rich, Then after the sermon he pleaded for people to give to his money wall. Say Whaaat?

 

[momz]

We had a friend that said we should try his church. So the sermon was basically about why it is not fair to tax the rich, Then after the sermon he pleaded for people to give to his money wall. Say Whaaat?

they love your money