Membership Magic Beyond

[BeachClub2014]

I’ll go one further and say that LLPP shouldn’t exist for anyone. It’s not ok that it exists for deluxe and not moderate, it’s not ok that it exists at all. In my own personal opinion of course. I didn’t like Genie+ either. I also don’t like how they limited DAS to only certain disabilities that are the most faked. Want to open all the cans of worms?

Nope. I'm just pointing out that DVC offering MMB behind a paywall is nothing new and is a clearly articulated possibility in public websites and our governing documents, it is a broad practice across WDW, and whether it is a material change to lounge access previously enjoyed is both a matter of perspective and opinion.

We don't have to like it, but we should at least be consistent in our outrage, right? I will NEVER purchase the the LLPP, but I get why Disney is doing it.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, they should be outraged. And the Deluxe hotel guests (and DVC) should be insulted at the disgusting price point.

At this point every single move Disney makes is not about the guest. That's part of why I'm outraged about this new upcharge.

There's no reason they couldn't offer ALL of these besides the lounge benefit without an upcharge. There is minimal additional cost to them to do so.

But don’t they own the OTU points they sell owners? At least for that, they are reducing the overall cost of those to owners…

Even if that is all an owner uses, and applies the $99 to that, you are reducing your cost from $20/point…which is down from $22/point charged in 2023…to a little less than $15/point if you buy the full 12, to get 24.

You have to at least admit it does offer an owner a savings if you want those…sure, not as big of a savings as if it was free, but a savings none the less.

 

[lowlight]

and whether it is a material change to lounge access previously enjoyed is both a matter of perspective and opinion.

But that’s where you’re wrong. There’s no opinion involved. It’s a material change, what is opinion is the degree to which it affects people.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Yes, they should be outraged. And the Deluxe hotel guests (and DVC) should be insulted at the disgusting price point.

At this point every single move Disney makes is not about the guest. That's part of why I'm outraged about this new upcharge.

There's no reason they couldn't offer ALL of these besides the lounge benefit without an upcharge. There is minimal additional cost to them to do so.

Not to poke the bear, but have you purchased and used Genie+ or LL during your visits to the parks? If so, then it's literally the same behavior that many are railing against in this thread. My family has done so. We won't do the new LLPP because of the outrageous price point.

 

[New Mouse]

But don’t they own the OTU points they sell owners? At least for that, they are reducing the overall cost of those to owners…

Even if that is all an owner uses, and applies the $99 to that, you are reducing your cost from $20/point…which is down from $22/point charged in 2023…to a little less than $15/point if you buy the full 12, to get 24.

You have to at least admit it does offer an owner a savings if you want those…sure, not as big of a savings as if it was free, but a savings none the less.

It does, but what's the point of putting the savings behind a pay wall? They could just charge everyone aay $2 less per point and call it a day. From a business perspective they'd make more money if they just offered a straight discount. That and the ticket discounts being included in this make no sense. While I disagree with the lounge access and meet and greets, at least it makes some sense of the product.

 

[BeachClub2014]

But that’s where you’re wrong. There’s no opinion involved. It’s a material change, what is opinion is the degree to which it affects people.

A member who can access the lounge can still do so. When and how long it takes to access has always been variable, and it still is. We can debate whether MMB is a material change or not.

I get the point. I just don't have the same level of outrage that I'm somehow being degraded or devalued by the creation of MMB. YMMV.

 

[permavac]

Yes, it makes someone have to wait longer who doesn’t pay when it’s crowded.

It is definitely a change to the program and if I wasn’t clear that it is, then yes, it is.

But isn’t that change coming with benefits we don’t already have? Isn’t that really the discussion?

As someone who is very interested in buying the MMB benefit, I don't see it as we have to take it all or leave it all.

DVC doesn't owe us anything other than our accommodations. I think this conversation is more about what we "Club" members owe/don't owe each other. If DVC put this to us, the club members, and told us to decide if the priority access stays or goes, I would ask anyone who says, "Yeah - I want priority access at the lounge!" - Have you considered that it means that that family next to you doesn't get in at all?

Their answer could either be:
Yes and I want it anyway (for whatever reason);
Yes and I don't want it anymore now that I realize the negative impact for others; or
No, I haven't considered it but now that I have (THEN MOVE TO ONE OR TWO ABOVE)

Life is not fair and it doesn't even have to be but, given a choice for this particular issue, I would vote for first come, first served because that seems more fair to all of us especially since it is currently a model of show up, potentially wait, then see if you can even get in. I don't begrudge anyone wanting priority access either - it's just not the choice I would make for the lounges in particular. I don't have a problem with LL. If we ever go to Disney parks outside of the US I intend to use it because time is of the essence and it's not a surprise that they have these programs in place. You know where you stand before you get there.

All that said I'm still buying MMB because we're maybe getting a little ahead of ourselves. Maybe they'll implement a reservation system and that would make all of this a moot point. Still, I am going to write to DVC and tell them what I think about the Priority Lounge access and the fact that International owners aren't allowed to buy in.

 

[New Mouse]

Not to poke the bear, but have you purchased and used Genie+ or LL during your visits to the parks? If so, then it's literally the same behavior that many are railing against in this thread. My family has done so. We won't do the new LLPP because of the outrageous price point.

We haven't used it since it was free FP and Plus. 1. Crowds have been dropping and 2. They broke the product more than when it was free. 3
The price increases aren't associated with anything other than greed.

 

[Sandisw]

It does, but what's the point of putting the savings behind a pay wall? They could just charge everyone aay $2 less per point and call it a day. From a business perspective they'd make more money if they just offered a straight discount. That and the ticket discounts being included in this make no sense. While I disagree with the lounge access and meet and greets, at least it makes some sense of the product.

Of course, they could have done it differently, but in the end, the owner still ends up paying less than they are now

I see it like the Costco membership that gives you 2% back when you pay for the executive. If you don’t upcharge the membership, you don’t get it. Or, the extra fee I pay for my CC that offers me extras to offset it.

Same with tickets…of course they could have decided to give us discounted tickets without an additional charge, but if the net result for someone is still in their favor, then paying upfront or not, still works out.

The key will, of course, be what happens as the price goes up and it no longer offers the value it once did. The DDP is an example.

At least for now, they have created a program that has the potential to save owners some real money, even if it isn’t as much as it would be if they gave it to us…

 

[tx911]

A member who can access the lounge can still do so. When and how long it takes to access has always been variable, and it still is. We can debate whether MMB is a material change or not.

I get the point. I just don't have the same level of outrage that I'm somehow being degraded or devalued by the creation of MMB. YMMV.

This lounge thing is like if they decided you can only Trick-or-Treat at MNSSHP if you pay an extra $5.

Sure, they could do it, and people would pay it, it would just be a really bad idea on Disney's part.

 

[Sandisw]

As someone who is very interested in buying the MMB benefit, I don't see it as we have to take it all or leave it all.

DVC doesn't owe us anything other than our accommodations. I think this conversation is more about what we "Club" members owe/don't owe each other. If DVC put this to us, the club members, and told us to decide if the priority access stays or goes, I would ask anyone who says, "Yeah - I want priority access at the lounge!" - Have you considered that it means that that family next to you doesn't get in at all?

Their answer could either be:
Yes and I want it anyway (for whatever reason);
Yes and I don't want it anymore now that I realize the negative impact for others; or
No, I haven't considered it but now that I have (THEN MOVE TO ONE OR TWO ABOVE)

Life is not fair and it doesn't even have to be but, given a choice for this particular issue, I would vote for first come, first served because that seems more fair to all of us especially since it is currently a model of show up, potentially wait, then see if you can even get in. I don't begrudge anyone wanting priority access either - it's just not the choice I would make for the lounges in particular. I don't have a problem with LL. If we ever go to Disney parks outside of the US I intend to use it because time is of the essence and it's not a surprise that they have these programs in place. You know where you stand before you get there.

All that said I'm still buying MMB because we're maybe getting a little ahead of ourselves. Maybe they'll implement a reservation system and that would make all of this a moot point. Still, I am going to write to DVC and tell them what I think about the Priority Lounge access and the fact that International owners aren't allowed to buy in.

I really am interested to hear what responses are shared as to why they can’t sell to anyone but US citizens.

 

[PalmettoPath]

I really am interested to hear what responses are shared as to why they can’t sell to anyone but US citizens.

I will post back as soon as I hear something back to my inquiry...if I hear back...

 

[New Mouse]

This lounge thing is like if they decided you can only Trick-or-Treat at MNSSHP if you pay an extra $5.

Sure, they could do it, and people would pay it, it would just be a really bad idea on Disney's part.

I'm surprised they haven't been soulless enough to create a paid lightning lane for trick or treating.

Can you imagine if they created rides that you could only guarantee access if you paid more and then didn't tell you if you could have access until after you bought your $150 ticket?

 

[BeachClub2014]

I'm surprised they haven't been soulless enough to create a paid lightning lane for trick or treating.

Can you imagine if they created rides that you could only guarantee access if you paid more and then didn't tell you if you could have access until after you bought your $150 ticket?

I'm no history buff, but wasn't that the case when Disneyland first opened? I thought you had to pay to enter the park and purchase ticket books to ride/enter the various attractions. If so, Disney has a loooong history of separating people from their money.

 

[ehh]

Odds on whether the incentive update on Dec 11 is gonna include a free year of MMB?

---

Can you imagine if they created rides that you could only guarantee access if you paid more and then didn't tell you if you could have access until after you bought your $150 ticket?

Isn't this exactly what happened with Cosmic Rewind and TRON with their Virtual Queue + ILL strategy at opening?

 

[New Mouse]

I'm no history buff, but wasn't that the case when Disneyland first opened? I thought you had to pay to enter the park and purchase ticket books to ride/enter the various attractions. If so, Disney has a loooong history of separating people from their money.

You would have to pay to ride more attractions.

 

[J-Dog]

I guess that is really where we see things differently…

I am simply not going to be upset when a business makes a business decision. I will weigh it’s pros and cons and do what’s best for me.

But, I won’t begrudge anyone else or judge anyone else who chooses something I would not because it makes sense for them.

And, I guess I am pretty surprised that some think that the bulk of those who are getting priority would consider themselves above others. Thst has not been the experience I have had in my life with friends, family and strangers.

Okay. How about this: how many people will feel the same as you if/when this includes priority room requests and gets to be $1000/year? i.e. if you don't pay an extra $1K, then you are not even considered for a room request?

That may be an extreme example, but both of those things have previous precedent with Disney - increasing prices, and now the introduction of priority access for DVC members over other DVC members, so it could happen.

Would that still be fair?

 

[Sandisw]

Okay. How about this: how many people will feel the same as you if/when this includes priority room requests and gets to be $1000/year? i.e. if you don't pay an extra $1K, then you are not even considered for a room request?

That may be an extreme example, but both of those things have previous precedent with Disney - increasing prices, and now the introduction of priority access for DVC members over other DVC members, so it could happen.

Would that still be fair?

IMO, yes because if the person in charge of a program changes the rules of their program, and its not something I was guaranteed…which does apply to membership extras…then it’s fair, because fair is not the same as equal.

So, if Disney wants to have a loyalty program that allows owners to pay for room requests, then they can do that.

I won’t pay it because I don’t think room requests should be allowed even for free, but I am not getting angry if they decide to offer it to others who are willing to pay, especially since I have to deal with it now when I disagree it should be allowed. First available is what I wish they did and never allowed requests at all.

As I said, I control what I can control and don’t stress to the degree for things I can’t. Memberhsip extras are just that, extras. They will come and go and some changes will be good for me and some will not.

Has Disney changed over the years and become more expensive? Of course they have and they have added things now that are pay for play.

But I am still a big believer in choices and I’d rather have more than less, even if not all will personally be a plus for me.

And to be clear, I have this mindset for all businesses, not just Disney….when airlines began charging for checked bags, I stopped checking bags all the time…now I do only when I must.

 

[muppets3d]

If nobody buys this, then the "priority" lounge access is meaningless. So let's all stand firm and refuse to buy it. I don't see any value here at all, frankly.

 

[muppets3d]

Odds on whether the incentive update on Dec 11 is gonna include a free year of MMB?

---

Isn't this exactly what happened with Cosmic Rewind and TRON with their Virtual Queue + ILL strategy at opening?

Wouldn't be surprised if new and existing owners who buy direct get this included for a certain amount of time when they buy or add-on. It's basically free for DVC and has very little actual value to owners, so why not.